Wilcots: Fitzpatrick the Answer

[PromoTheRobot]

Let's stop with the demonizing of Jauron after he has departed. The Jauron teams played just as hard for him as this year's losing Bills team has played for Gailey. The much deserved criticism of Jauron revolved around his primitive offensive philosophy. His teams were tough to watch and were not very entertaining.

 

The Bills under Jauron went 7-9 three consecutilve years. The current Bills are 2-9. You consider that an upgrade? The Billls during his tenure lacked talent. He maintained a very conservative offensive philosophy to keep his undermanned team in the games. That isn't an unreasonable approach to take under those circumstances. It certainly isn't appealing to watch but there is a rational for DJ's mindset.

 

The Bills under Jauron and Gailey haven't lost on a regular basis because either coach is an incompetent. They lost because they simply lacked talent. The ownership and front office were of a mediocre level so it shouldn't be too surprising that the product reflected that same weakness.

I must disagree. To me the difference in the Bills is night and day from Jauron to Chan. Lack of talent? What did Stevie Johnson and Roscoe Parrish do under Jauron? There was talent. But Jauron was incapable of using it. He deserves all the scorn he gets.

 

PTR

[Beerball]

I would bet that if he had the kind of protection that Manning has, he would be much more accurate. Manning doesn't get a quarter of the abuse that RFP gets. He has guys in his face. I'm not saying he is going to reach the Manning level, I'm saying he will be even better if thye upgrade the O-line a couple of notches. I don't think they need to spend the 1st pick on a lineman, but there are ways to get a couple better guys in to play.

What can be done to cut down on the batted balls on short routes? Does his arm level need to rise? Does he need a bit more room to be able to slide in the pocket?

 

Serious questions because I don't know the answer. His delivery isn't the classic 'over the top' like Manning. Is this something that should be worked on during the off season or do you leave well enough alone?

 

Luck will most definitely come out this year. The new CBA threatens to have a rookie salary cap, which would likely take effect in 2012. If Harbough and his manager are sensible, they'll talk this kid into grabbing his payday while it's a sure thing.

I would think that a new CBA would address this coming draft class even if it is done retroactively. If there isn't a CBA nobody from the 2011 draft class is signed (unless the union is broken...am I right?). Once there is a CBA they fall under its rules and regs. That's just my guess.

[JohnC]

I must disagree. To me the difference in the Bills is night and day from Jauron to Chan. Lack of talent? What did Stevie Johnson and Roscoe Parrish do under Jauron? There was talent. But Jauron was incapable of using it. He deserves all the scorn he gets.

 

PTR

 

You didn't carefully read what I wrote. I clearly acknowledged that DJ's major weakness was on the offensive side of the ball. It was very primitive. He took a very conservative approach because he felt it was the best way to be competitive with more talented teams.

 

The bottom line is that he went 7-9 three consecutive years. The Bills are currently 2-9. Considering how limited the roster was for him winning 7 games was an accomplishment.

 

There is no doubt that I prefer Gailey as a HC. But the truth of the matter is that the Bills for the past number of years have lost mostly because they lack of talent.

 

Bashing the departed DJ is easy to do. I think you would agree that his teams played hard for him. They never quit. The biggest weakness that doomed him is not at the rate he lost as much as he and his team were very boring.

Edited November 30, 2010 by JohnC

[SouthernMan]

Bases his opinion on Fitz's smarts and Gailey's faith. Interesting analysis.

 

Wilcots likes the Harvard Man

 

 

Wee-oo cots is right.

 

The obvious:

Fitzpatrick is a very intelligent player. Fitzpatrick does not have the same accuracy as Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.

Not too many NFL QBs possess both qualities.

 

Fitzpatrick has now started the equivilent of about 2 full seasons. He's still learning. Like Manning and Brady, he's becoming a clutch QB when it comes to the mental part of the game. He may never have an arm like theirs, but it's still decent enough. The "drop"....it doesn't get more perfect than that!

 

The Bills have had their share or "arms" since Kelly. Ones that unfortunately didn't have the "mind" part to go along with it. Bledsoe, Losman, R Johnson and maybe Edwards - all had "cannons". What they all had in common was a lack of field vision and sense of timing/pressure. Johnson had the added characteristic of being a China doll.

 

Flutie had the mental part fairly well, but was limited by his physicality and his lockerroom divisivness.

 

 

When it comes right down to it, Fitzpatrick may be the best QB since Kelly.

Pluses:

His ability to read defenses and call audilbles,(coach on the field)

Be a leader (well liked and respected by teammates)

Not injury prone

Not afraid to take risks (has faith in his receivers to make the play)

He's mobile (nice to have a QB with wheels and brains)

He's got guts (we've seen the blocks)

And yes, more often than not, throws a decent pass.

 

There are moments of erratic ball handling or passing, in part attributed to being rushed. An improved O-line might help that to some extent. Both Brady and Manning have thrown some bad passes when pressured and off balance.

 

Good arms are great, but I believe the mental part is a more precious commodity. There are tons of great arms that never make it. There are the previously mentioned Bills castoffs, as well as others like Jeff George. Jeff George was basically the anti-Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

Bottom line:

We've had the "arms". They didn't work out. Now we've got the smarts and an adequate arm to go along with it. If there was a scorecard for QB traits, Fitzpatrick would have a pretty damn good rating. Like Brees, who took about 3 years to blossom, Fitzpatrick may be just starting to show his true colors as the guy who can be our long term solution at the QB position.

 

The one thing most sorely missed in recent times - he's an on-field leader.

Fitzpatrick reminds me somewhat of the only other Bills QB to lead them to be league champions - Jack Kemp.

Edited November 30, 2010 by DML2005

[1billsfan]

You didn't carefully read what I wrote. I clearly acknowledged that DJ's major weakness was on the offensive side of the ball. It was very primitive. He took a very conservative approach because he felt it was the best way to be competitive with more talented teams.

 

The bottom line is that he went 7-9 three consecutive years. The Bills are currently 2-9. Considering how limited the roster was for him winning 7 games was an accomplishment.

 

There is no doubt that I prefer Gailey as a HC. But the truth of the matter is that the Bills for the past number of years have lost mostly because they lack of talent.

 

Bashing the departed DJ is easy to do. I think you would agree that his teams played hard for him. They never quit. The biggest weakness that doomed him is not at the rate he lost as much as he and his team were very boring.

 

 

Dick Jauron put this team in limbo for four years. I regard him as one of the worst head coaches ever in the NFL. The guy basically turned one magical season in Chicago into 8 seasons of a perpetuating myth that he was indeed a good coach with bad luck due to injuries.

 

Why is he one of the worst? Because he played not to lose. Because he never trusted his players. Because he was the worst head coach ever at evaluating latent. Dick Jauron deserves every bit of the trashing of his coaching abilities.

 

I'm amazed that there are still fans that still believe in the myths that you do. This team did a HUGE quit on him last year that led to his freaking MID SEASON DISMISSAL. Where do you get off trying to perpetuate the myth of Dick Jauron???? Here of all places????? I must say, you got real guts brother. Perry Ferrell proved ten times the head coach that Dick Jauron was and that was clear by anyone with intelligence. Perry let his team play, played the right QB, played to win, playing without fear.

 

Knock yourself out, go be a Dick Jauron cheerleader and cry about his miserable luck, but please don't insult us Bills fans by trying to perpetuate the myth we had the misfortune of witnessing for 4 loooong seasons. Bills fans finally see what it is when a real head coach has his team really fighting and playing hard to win game in and game out. This is the best Bills team since 2002. I don't care about the record, I can see it with my own eyes. This team would kick the ass of any Jauron led Bills team.

[Bill from NYC]

You didn't carefully read what I wrote. I clearly acknowledged that DJ's major weakness was on the offensive side of the ball.

 

Gotta disagree John. I think that his defensive system was as bad as anything anyone could imagine. He and Marv played "not to lose" and built the team from the secondary. He even had Schobel running away from scrimage trying to cover tight ends.

[LynchMob23]

What can be done to cut down on the batted balls on short routes? Does his arm level need to rise? Does he need a bit more room to be able to slide in the pocket?

 

Serious questions because I don't know the answer. His delivery isn't the classic 'over the top' like Manning. Is this something that should be worked on during the off season or do you leave well enough alone?

I think for the batted balls, the biggest issue for Fitz (especially for the wr / te screens) is the end man, typically the tackle, on those quick passes has to either cut the defender to keep their hands down or widen them out to give him a window to throw into.

 

For Fitz's end of the bargain, he has to either get out of the pocket for those throws or just time em a second quicker. That's just my humble opinion, so take it as you will!

[wardigital]

I must disagree. To me the difference in the Bills is night and day from Jauron to Chan. Lack of talent? What did Stevie Johnson and Roscoe Parrish do under Jauron? There was talent. But Jauron was incapable of using it. He deserves all the scorn he gets.

 

PTR

 

JohnC makes an excellent point, and this is a two way road. What has the secondary done under Gailey? Why is our special teams suddenly ordinary under Gailey? What has the running game done under Gailey?

 

And as to the perception that the only thing holding Fitz back from being a marquee quarterback is his draft status: nonsense. His QB ratings coming into this season were 58.2, 70.0 and 69.7. Two of those in seasons with double-digit games. This year he's played better, but his statistics have come back to earth. He has seven losses. The team has scored more than 20 points once in the last five weeks.

 

We like him because he tries hard. We like the team because they are trying things in a different, more entertaining way than previous teams. But they are not any better than they were under Jauron record wise, and that in the long run is the point. Until they become a playoff team, no one at One Bills Drive deserves any credit for improvement. Maybe making the team more fun to watch, but not better.

 

One other thing on Fitzpatrick. In 370 plus attempts in his first true look at an NFL starter with the Bengals, he threw for 1,900 yards, 8 TD 9 INT and was sacked 38 times. Last year in 10 games and 227 attempts he threw for 1,400 yards, 9 TD and 10 INT. He averaged 142 yards passing per game. Until this season, speaking statistically and including this year speaking record wise, Ryan Fitzpatrick has been almost incomprehensibly bad.

Edited November 30, 2010 by wardigital

[aristocrat]

fitz is having a great year and on pace for about 28 tds, 3200 yards...if he played in the first two games it could have been more than 3500 yards and 30 td's. this team needs to get more of a run game going and needs to stop the run on defense. we can't seem to control games and fall behind quickly and end up playing catch up so we throw. fitzy needs to work on the accuracy and maybe that can come with an off season working out with the first team and a training camp with the first team. fitz seems to manage the game well and if we can get a rt in the off season and give him some more protection as well as more support with the run game he can be a more effective qb. i am actually warming up to giving him a shot at being the bills qb but still a bit skeptical. i think carrington is a stud and will be starting on our line next year alongside williams and edwards. we just need some real lb's that can come up and stop the run and get after the qb.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

JohnC makes an excellent point, and this is a two way road. What has the secondary done under Gailey? Why is our special teams suddenly ordinary under Gailey? What has the running game done under Gailey?

 

And as to the perception that the only thing holding Fitz back from being a marquee quarterback is his draft status: nonsense. His QB ratings coming into this season were 58.2, 70.0 and 69.7. Two of those in seasons with double-digit games. This year he's played better, but his statistics have come back to earth. He has seven losses. The team has scored more than 20 points once in the last five weeks.

 

We like him because he tries hard. We like the team because they are trying things in a different, more entertaining way than previous teams. But they are not any better than they were under Jauron record wise, and that in the long run is the point. Until they become a playoff team, no one at One Bills Drive deserves any credit for improvement. Maybe making the team more fun to watch, but not better.

 

One other thing on Fitzpatrick. In 370 plus attempts in his first true look at an NFL starter with the Bengals, he threw for 1,900 yards, 8 TD 9 INT and was sacked 38 times. Last year in 10 games and 227 attempts he threw for 1,400 yards, 9 TD and 10 INT. He averaged 142 yards passing per game. Until this season, speaking statistically and including this year speaking record wise, Ryan Fitzpatrick has been almost incomprehensibly bad.

 

RFP was also on some bad teams.

 

No matter. It will be clear after these last games whether or not he is a fluke. I have held off, but I can see already that RFP is better than average. I bet Jerry Jones would give him a boatload of money to play for Dallas.

 

When will you jump on board, when they make the playoffs? It's only 12 games into the new staffs tenure, and they were starting from NOWHERE. Methinks you are being a bit disingenous when you compare the records. This season they have played a much tougher schedule, and have been way more competitive. And to simplify a rebuilding year strictly down to the won-Loss record is silly...anhhhhhh blahblahblah- your just a hard nut

 

Playing Mister Hard-to-Impress is easy when a team is at the bottom, but being able to spot a team on the rise takes some insight into this game we love. That's what makes this board interesting, it's a chance to lay out some analysis.

 

 

Seriously, find another team. Just cheer for the frontrunners.

Edited November 30, 2010 by Matthews' Bag

[LABills08]

Strong endorsement. I worry sometimes that media members who call him smart do it in large part bc of his undergraduate degree. That is not to say that Ryan isn't extremely bright, he clearly is. But, some writers get lost in hyperbole.

 

That being said, I imagine this isn't too far off from the current thinking of the Bills FO. Fitz will likely start next season, whether or not a rookie QB is drafted. Personally, I think that he remains a short term solution. While he has begun to really get a feel for the game, he still lacks the physical talents necessary to lead an elite offense. I've said he reminds me of Jake Delhomme before, but I don't think that gives Fitz enough credit. I think the better comparison is Chad Pennington, but with less accuracy and a stronger arm.

[wardigital]

Ryan Fitzpatrick was and is on some bad teams. A good quarterback on a bad team doesn't interest me, a good QB on a good team does. I'll take Billy Joe Hobert on a 11 win team before I take Peyton Manning on a 3 win team. I want to win.

 

RFP was also on some bad teams.

 

No matter. It will be clear after these last games whether or not he is a fluke. I have held off, but I can see already that RFP is better than average. I bet Jerry Jones would give him a boatload of money to play for Dallas.

 

When will you jump on board, when they make the playoffs? It's only 12 games into the new staffs tenure, and they were starting from NOWHERE. Methinks you are being a bit disingenous when you compare the records. This season they have played a much tougher schedule, and have been way more competitive. And to simplify a rebuilding year strictly down to the won-Loss record is silly...anhhhhhh blahblahblah- your just a hard nut

 

Playing Mister Hard-to-Impress is easy when a team is at the bottom, but being able to spot a team on the rise takes some insight into this game we love. That's what makes this board interesting, it's a chance to lay out some analysis.

 

 

Seriously, find another team. Just cheer for the frontrunners.

 

Why do I have to find another team and when I have I ever indicated that I am not willing to get Fitzpatrick a chance? I think Fitz has earned himself another full season and I want the team to win. This has nothing to do with front running. I just think it's silly and typically Buffalonian of people to take the smallest modicum of success and begin comparing Ryan Fitzpatrick to hall-of-famers and the league's top tier quarterbacks. Jump on board what? What does that even mean? I watch every game, discuss them on this board, have opinions, support the team financially. What else do I have to do to jump on board? Sit in unquestioning silence so that you feel better about your own assertions? Don't be a fool. Perhaps you should exhibit the same amount of patience and optimism with fellow posters as you have for the Bills losing.

 

And finally, I'm not playing "Mr. Hard to Impress". The team was losing and is still losing. They're certainly more entertaining than they used to be, and I like that. And it also seems like they care and they are trying, which is what I like to see. But the goal is to win games, not to be impressed or unimpressed. Instead of getting so defensive of what I'm trying to say, why don't you try to get outside of yourself for a second and actually let it soak in. I'm not saying anything negative about Fitz that isn't true, and nothing that discounts that he's certainly the best QB we've had in a very long time. But it's still not good enough.

Edited November 30, 2010 by wardigital

[r00tabaga]

He reminds me more of an early Kurt Warner before anyone realized how good he was at reading defenses & being accurate.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

Ryan Fitzpatrick was and is on some bad teams. A good quarterback on a bad team doesn't interest me, a good QB on a good team does. I'll take Billy Joe Hobert on a 11 win team before I take Peyton Manning on a 3 win team. I want to win.

 

Like I said, pick a frontrunner team. The Steelers are consistent.

We all want to win, but another 6-10 season doesn't mean anything. It's an overhaul of one of the worst teams I ever watched. Gailey has made lots of changes, and needs some time to get the team up to snuff. We all like winning, but I'll take a 3-13 first season from Peyton Manning, knowing that the team is on the upswing, over 7-9 team with Trent Edwards at the helm. To say you will only give a coach credit after he takes a crap team, in maybe the toughest division in the NFL, to the playoffs is ridiculous. It's like, "I will only praise my son when he becomes a millionaire, anything less just won't do"

[LABills08]

Just realized that article has a link to Fitz being mic'd up. Pretty good stuff.

[JohnC]

Gotta disagree John. I think that his defensive system was as bad as anything anyone could imagine. He and Marv played "not to lose" and built the team from the secondary. He even had Schobel running away from scrimage trying to cover tight ends.

 

You and some others are missing my point about DJ. If DJ is so bad then why was he hired? Why was he given an extension? Why was a clueless Marv Levy even brought into the organization?

 

Marv Levy was once part of the most successful period of the most dismal history of the Bills. My point about Jauron was that he was working in a dysfunctional organizational structure established by a very peculiar owner. During his mediocre stint the Bills went 7-9 three consecutive years. The Bills are now currently 2-9. Under Gailey the team plays hard. Under Jauron the team also played hard.

 

You are absolutely correct that he and Marv had a mentality of not losing. But that isn't an unreasonable approach to take when your team, compared to the opposition, sorely lacked talent. Playing it close to the vest in order to stay in a game against a superior opponent is not an absurd approach to take. As ugly as it was to watch it worked to a degree.

 

I am not saying that DJ was a high caliber HC, although others are trying to distort my comments about him. Dick Jauron was a middling HC working in a very dysfunctional organization with an interfering inept owner. What did you expect? Going 7-9 under those suffocating circumstances was an accomplishment

 

He even had Schobel running away from scrimage trying to cover tight ends.

 

That is a lot less foolish than having Kelsay playing as an OLB!!!!!!

[1billsfan]

Ryan Fitzpatrick was and is on some bad teams. A good quarterback on a bad team doesn't interest me, a good QB on a good team does. I'll take Billy Joe Hobert on a 11 win team before I take Peyton Manning on a 3 win team. I want to win.

 

 

 

Why do I have to find another team and when I have I ever indicated that I am not willing to get Fitzpatrick a chance? I think Fitz has earned himself another full season and I want the team to win. This has nothing to do with front running. I just think it's silly and typically Buffalonian of people to take the smallest modicum of success and begin comparing Ryan Fitzpatrick to hall-of-famers and the league's top tier quarterbacks. Jump on board what? What does that even mean? I watch every game, discuss them on this board, have opinions, support the team financially. What else do I have to do to jump on board? Sit in unquestioning silence so that you feel better about your own assertions? Don't be a fool. Perhaps you should exhibit the same amount of patience and optimism with fellow posters as you have for the Bills losing.

 

And finally, I'm not playing "Mr. Hard to Impress". The team was losing and is still losing. They're certainly more entertaining than they used to be, and I like that. And it also seems like they care and they are trying, which is what I like to see. But the goal is to win games, not to be impressed or unimpressed. Instead of getting so defensive of what I'm trying to say, why don't you try to get outside of yourself for a second and actually let it soak in. I'm not saying anything negative about Fitz that isn't true, and nothing that discounts that he's certainly the best QB we've had in a very long time. But it's still not good enough.

 

 

Dude, their last four losses were to DIVISION LEADERS by a grand total of 12 POINTS. Three of those games are bonafide Superbowl contenders (Ravens, Bears, Steelers). If you can't acknowledge, appreciate or maybe even fail to understand what you're watching is a long dormant team that's back on the rise, then that's your problem. "The goal is to win games," ok Lombardi...gee, thanks for the pearls of wisdom there.

Edited November 30, 2010 by 1billsfan

[JohnC]

Dude, their last four losses were to DIVISION LEADERS by a grand total of 12 POINTS. Three of those games are bonafide Superbowl contenders (Ravens, Bears, Steelers). If you can't acknowledge, appreciate or maybe even fail to understand what you're watching is a long dormant team that's back on the rise, then that's your problem. "The goal is to win games," ok Lombardi...gee, thanks for the pearls of wisdom there.

 

Your loveable loser mentality is not good enough for me. I'm not succombing to the lower expectation syndrome. There is no doubt that the schedule this year is more challenging than most other years. So what. You play whoever you are scheduled to play. Our divisional opponents are also playing similar tough schedules.

 

You might think the Bills are on the verge of getting back into the elite status. I don't. There is still a long way to go to even catch the Jets and Patriots. You might think I'm undervaluing our team's prospects, I'm not. You are overvaluing where they are in their stage of development.

[JohnC]

JohnC makes an excellent point, and this is a two way road. What has the secondary done under Gailey? Why is our special teams suddenly ordinary under Gailey? What has the running game done under Gailey?

 

And as to the perception that the only thing holding Fitz back from being a marquee quarterback is his draft status: nonsense. His QB ratings coming into this season were 58.2, 70.0 and 69.7. Two of those in seasons with double-digit games. This year he's played better, but his statistics have come back to earth. He has seven losses. The team has scored more than 20 points once in the last five weeks.

 

We like him because he tries hard. We like the team because they are trying things in a different, more entertaining way than previous teams. But they are not any better than they were under Jauron record wise, and that in the long run is the point. Until they become a playoff team, no one at One Bills Drive deserves any credit for improvement. Maybe making the team more fun to watch, but not better.

 

One other thing on Fitzpatrick. In 370 plus attempts in his first true look at an NFL starter with the Bengals, he threw for 1,900 yards, 8 TD 9 INT and was sacked 38 times. Last year in 10 games and 227 attempts he threw for 1,400 yards, 9 TD and 10 INT. He averaged 142 yards passing per game. Until this season, speaking statistically and including this year speaking record wise, Ryan Fitzpatrick has been almost incomprehensibly bad.

 

You are very astute. Fitz is a good story. However, he is not the second coming of Drew Brees, as another poster stated. As you noted, the Bills are much more entertaining on offense. That doesn't change the reality that their record is 2-9. The franchise is at the starting gate of a marathon, some wishful believers think they are approaching the finishing line. Sometimes delusions are much more fun than reality.

[PromoTheRobot]

You are very astute. Fitz is a good story. However, he is not the second coming of Drew Brees, as another poster stated. As you noted, the Bills are much more entertaining on offense. That doesn't change the reality that their record is 2-9. The franchise is at the starting gate of a marathon, some wishful believers think they are approaching the finishing line. Sometimes delusions are much more fun than reality.

Instead of just repeating the win-loss record, how about considering how the games are won and lost.

 

PTR

Edited November 30, 2010 by PromoTheRobot