I am off the Fitzpatrick bandwagon

[coldstorage5]

Solid Back up. Smart Player that will tutor our new young stud QB ( who ever that is).

[andrewsz1991]

I don't know ho you could infer that Fitz could never take the Bills to the playoffs. Sure he makes a few dumb mistakes and overthrows his receivers sometimes ut that comes with the territory. He's smart, can throw the ball, and can read defenses like nobody I've seen in a Bills jersey before. I think in this season we have 4 wins granted our defense steps up and maybe 5 if Fitz played in the Miami game. We simply do not know. We have much more pressing matters to take care of in the coming drafts, and I for one would not mind seeing Fitz starting as our quarterback for the next 3-4 seasons. I finally get excited watching the Bills play

[Rob's House]

Jake Delhomme (when Carolina was competitive) - Offensive Line - Pass Rush - Running Game - Steve Smith = Ryan Fitzpatrick

 

Carolina had premier personnel on both lines...always had at least one premier running back (now they have two with no line...how are they doing? <sarcasm>), although anyone could run behind that O-Line at the time...Steve Smith's athleticism made a lot of near lateral swing passes 50+ yard touchdowns and covered up a lot of bad throws. Note that when Steve Smith was suspended or injured how poorly Delhomme played.

 

Jake Delhomme was viewed as a smart, "solid backup" prior to becoming the starter and benefited from the pieces around him. They built the supporting cast, plugged the quarterback in later, and almost won a Super Bowl. The problem was they hung on to Delhomme a little too long and as both lines aged (right along with Delhomme) or got rich through free agency, Delhomme was exposed for what he is/was - a backup. Carolina's current running backs, Williams and Stewart, once the envy of the league cannot even get 100 yards rushing behind that line when , in the past, they were both getting 100 yards/game each. There are a million examples just like this...Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, Tom Brady (first Super Bowl), Bob Griese (HOF, really?), Eli Manning (borderline...pretend his last name is Jones)...where quaterback was just another position on a Super Bowl winning TEAM. Based on the Cowboys' game yesterday I would say Tony Romo is in the same mold...Jon Kitna came in and outplayed Romo with largely the same cast.

 

My point? Even if the Bills had all the same pieces in place when Fitzapatrick took over...studs on both lines, premier skill players...I would say he will be fine (and even encourage him starting over a rookie stud at QB) for the next 2 years BUT you still have to draft the QUARTERBACK if he is available. He does not have to be the #1 overall pick but that position needs to be a priority for this team early in the draft. Who knows, Ryan Mallett could be the next Dan Marino. Someone like Stephen Garcia taken later in the draft (if he comes out) is worth a look...(brothers played at Harvard for you "Fitzy" fans).

 

Look what Peyton Manning keeps doing as the Colts literally erode around him. He is literally forcing guys to win...they KNOW losing is not an option. Sam Bradford may not be racking up the stats but there is NO DOUBT who the leader on the field of that team will be for the next decade at least (may be optimistic about his durability). Heck, look what Mark Sanchez, Colt McCoy, and Troy Smith (tear in my eye) are doing. These guys are true leaders and the rest of the players believe. Coaches can do alot and great coaches can do even more but it's still the players who have to execute. Do you think Ray Lewis would accept a play call from Edwards (Bills DC) if he knew it was not going to work at a critical point in the game? Who calls the Colts offensive plays (rhetorical for dramatic purposes...we all know it's Frank Reich :-))

 

Bottom line...You NEVER pass on the franchise, can't miss quarterback for so many reasons both football and non-football related...marketing, identity, attracting free agents. I don't care if you are currently an established, mature team in all other aspects of the game. In today's NFL that only lasts 2-3 years at most. The quarterback is the most valuable asset in the team's portfolio and having the right one (whether by design or luck) makes GM's and coaches geniuses (Polian, Levy, Belichick, etc.), supporting players Hall of Famers (you think Jerry Rice is JERRY RICE without Montana and Young and the NEW West Coast Offense?), and fans ecstatic (although sometimes I wonder on this board).

Your argument would be a lot more persuasive except that Delhomme was a good starting QB (and I've seen enough of his games to know that) and since they've installed new QBs, including last years projected 1st rd "franchise" QB they've gotten worse.

 

A better argument would have been that only the most elusive of QBs can perform behind a garbage line, and a select few greats can still put up a decent performance without one. It's funny that everyone points to Aaron Rogers (who's one of the best scramblers in the league, mind you) who was 4-4 before his line got healthy last year with arguably the best rec corps in the league, as a guy who plays well without a line, and Big Ben, who looked pretty sorry last night without a line, and didn't make the !@#$ing playoffs last year.

[Armchair GM]

You saw about 10 games..? Haven't they only played 9, or are you from the future.? Ok, So must be I just gave it away, if your from the future, and your watching Fitzpatrick there, then must be Fitzpatrick = Bills QB Of the future..!

 

Two words...reading comprehension...he's obviously talking about seeing Fitz over a few seasons, which is pretty much given away by the fact he said he was 4 with Cinci...don't be so quick to slam someones post, cuz it made you look like a doh doh!

[Coach Tuesday]

Two words...reading comprehension...he's obviously talking about seeing Fitz over a few seasons, which is pretty much given away by the fact he said he was 4 with Cinci...don't be so quick to slam someones post, cuz it made you look like a doh doh!

 

That was more than two words. Don't say "two words" and then use 20 words.

[217014170]

I agree. You'd have to be an idiot not to draft a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning when you have the chance. Now tell me how you know which QB's will be that great? Because Kiper and McShay say so?

 

 

PTR

 

Please go back and re-read my entire post. Admittedly it was quite long. ;-) I was trying to stay away from mentioning everyone's obvious choice (Luck). But, if you are drafting that high in the draft (and your name is not Al Davis) then it is hard to screw it up. I know there is a long list of screw ups. I am not talking about a one year wonder and bowl game hero (Leaf and Russell). My point was "He does not have to be the #1 overall pick but that position needs to be a priority for this team early in the draft." Luck, the player, may not be the best fit for this team (the whole West Coast/Stanford thing...which is legitimate, by the way...we don't play in a dome) even if everyone is in love with him. Heck...he may pull an Eli or a John Elway and tell us he won't sign anyway. Just for clarification, that sometimes does happen without "Joe Fan" finding out about it. When Buddy Nix and Jim Overdorf go over potential high draft picks, signability is in the discussion...both short and long term. I will take "Luck", the non-plyare, intangible, invaluable ingredient to success any time.

 

However, if the powers that be decide to use a Top 5 pick on an APPROPRIATE Quarterback then why does it matter if it aligns with any or all talking heads? If that quarterback is not available then draft the next highest rated guy on your board that is still available at a position of need (or trade the pick...they will have trade partners lined up well in advance) and move on to the next highest QB on your board at the appropriate time. If the Bills end up with a top 5 pick and there is not a QB there that they place that value on then they need to trade out of the spot and collect draft picks. One of the many advantages of drafting that high is that the picks are very predictable. Lord knows this team has many areas of need so the more draft picks the better. The more you have, the more chances you have to be right.

 

Your argument would be a lot more persuasive except that Delhomme was a good starting QB (and I've seen enough of his games to know that) and since they've installed new QBs, including last years projected 1st rd "franchise" QB they've gotten worse.

 

A better argument would have been that only the most elusive of QBs can perform behind a garbage line, and a select few greats can still put up a decent performance without one. It's funny that everyone points to Aaron Rogers (who's one of the best scramblers in the league, mind you) who was 4-4 before his line got healthy last year with arguably the best rec corps in the league, as a guy who plays well without a line, and Big Ben, who looked pretty sorry last night without a line, and didn't make the !@#$ing playoffs last year.

 

I thought I subtly made both points but thanks... ;-) I do take exception to Delhomme being a good starting quarterback. Consistency is a huge ingredient to being good...he was never consistently good. Just my opinion along with the fact that I see a lot of similarities between he and Fitzpatrick. The good thing for Delhomme is he got his shot at the right time and rode the team's wave. Fitzpatrick may be just a few years too early to see the same TEAM success..

[gobillsinytown]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the Quarterback situation in Buffalo. Personally, I have seen enough. I didn't say much because I needed to see 4 or 5 more games in Buffalo. I saw 4 games with the Bengals about 10 with Buffalo.

 

I am not going to make excuses anymore. This guy reminds me of rookie cop at the firing range that shoots out the water cooler.

 

I hope he gets better but if he doesn't I still want to see Brian Brohm or draft a new QB.

 

Should you decide to stick with Brohm, I wish you well!

 

I'm not sure Fitz can hold up as a starting QB game after game. I like his guts and faith in his arm, but he's not a franchise QB. The key will be how well he adjusts to the changes that defenses make after analyzing him on game film. IMO that's the key. Most quarterbacks can win a game or two on ability, but the true franchise QB's are able to keep changing their game after defenses start analyzing game film for their weaknesses and tendencies. I doubt Fitz has that ability even though he's certainly a likeable guy and someone a team could rally around.

He'll be a fantastic backup to a franchise QB, assuming the team drafts one next year.

[Ray]

If Fitz is only a back up then why is he outperforming 70% of the rest of the QBs in the league? He is not Brady or Manning. But watch other NFL games and you will see Rothlesberger overthrow WRs all the time. Flacco make bad decisions and bad throws. Yet, since they were drafted high it gets excused as just a bad throw when they do it EVERY game too! Fitz has some accuracy problems sometimes as does almost EVERY other QB in the league. He has things like putting guys in the right position, making the proper adjustments, leadership abilities that you will not get at all from a rookie for another 3 years. Gailey gave all the credit to Fitz on the FJ TD shuffle pass as he made multiple adjustments to change guys assignments on that play.

He has played well enough to win in the majority of games and that is all you can ask for your QB. He is a top 10 QB in the league right now so I'll take it!

[Alphadawg7]

I just want to point something out here:

 

Last night I got into a QB discussion here about Sam Bradford, and how he is already a franchise-quality QB. Yet in almost every statistical category Fitz is outperforming him. So my contention is how we feel about a QB is directly related to how high he was drafted. If we drafted Andrew Luck and he was having an identical year to Fitzy we'd be deliriously happy. But since it's 7th round journeyman Ryan Fitzpatrick with the same stats we can't wait to replace him. It's no different than buying an expensive bottle of wine. It has to be better than the cheap crap because it was expensive, even if it isn't.

 

PTR

 

Geezus, the stats argument again. Its hilarious to watch all these stat checkers defend Fitz against other more talented QB's. Anyone with even a basic understanding of football who WATCHES the games can see Fitz has not been playing at a level indicative of full time starting talent. There is not a single person in football, dead or alive since the game was born in one mans head, that would take Fitz over Bradford. Bradford is a ROOKIE on a less talented offense who has a world of upside as he continues to learn the game. His comparison to Fitz is so absurd its not even funny. Let me illustrate just how stupid stat games can be rather than judging them by watching film on them...

 

JP Losmans last 7 games of 2006: His best stretch of his career

4-3 record, 130/205, 63% comp, 1553 yds, 7.57 ypa, 12 TD's, 8 INT's, 89.75 rating

 

Fitz in his 7 starts this year: His best stretch of his career

1-6 record, 148/251, 59% comp, 1645 yds, 6.55 ypa, 14 TD's, 7 INT's, 85.5 rating

 

Now if we go off STATS, then JP is a little better then Fitz with a significantly better W/L record, comp %, YPA, and QB Rating.

 

But what we know is that JP is not a very good QB, made a lot of mistakes on the field, was inaccurate and eratic, and not going to lead us anywhere significant even though he finished the 2006 year as the 11th rated QB in the league. In fact, no one would want him over Fitz, myself included.

 

Look at how some other QB's rated in 2006:

B. Favre - 25th

Big Ben - 21st

Eli Manning - 18th

S. McNair - 14th

Hasselbeck - 19th

M. Vick - 20th

V. Young - 30th

 

Show me one guy on this list that JP Losman is better than? He was the 11th rated QB in 2006 yet would be the 3rd string QB on most of these respective teams today (in fact he is the 3rd string to a guy on that list right now in Seattle). Does it really matter he was the 11th rated QB? NO, because he isnt a very good QB and was beat out by a 3rd round draft pick who sucks too the very next year.

 

So, people need to get out of the stats section and start watching some games. Fitz's accuracy is now below 60% on the season and continues to drop. This guy plays with a ton of heart, and I LOVE THAT and wish we had more guys like him on our team, but that doesnt change the fact that he is wildly inaccurate even when completing passes. I cant tell you how many times on a simple screen he has thrown the ball behind the reciever causing him to step back or spin around to make the catch allowing the D to adjust before the reciever can make their move. So many completed passes are shoe string catches or catches where the reciever has to stop their route to go get.

 

Add into that all the times he throws passes that are so wild they mimic a wild pitch in baseball. The Fitz love affair posters will argue how great he was against Balt (news flash, he isnt the only one who lit up Baltimores secondary which isnt that D's strong point) yet ignore how he handed control of the game to them with 2 terrrible INT's in the 3rd. They will blame Lindell for missing that FG in KC yet ignore the INT where we were almost in FG range in regulation and might have been if he hit the open slanting Lee Evans but instead threw the ball a mile over his head. They will ignore the wide open Spiller he wasnt close to hitting in the end zone just before the Lindell kick or all the incompletes in OT.

 

I am happy he is on this team, he is a great backup and plays with a lot of heart. But anyone who claims he is our future because of some stats (that continue to go down) rather than how the game really plays out is just kidding themselves.

 

This is not a bash on Fitz, its a reality check. I do like the guy and hope he is here next year, just backing up a real prospect or keeping the seat warm. Because I dont see him as a long time solution, then I support getting at least 3 starts in for Brohm this year to see what he can do. Oh, and all the Brohm bashers are going to say he got his shot in preseason and didnt win the job...well so did Fitz, and Trent beat him out too then he surprised once he got some real time with the starters.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Alphadawg7

[nedboy7]

i love Fitz. He is a real football player. Wish the rest of the team had heart like him and 95.

[mikef272002]

Counting last year, Fitz has now played in 17 games for the Bills. He is certainly better than Trent Edwards, but I agree with the poster. He has a very hard time throwing the ball accurately. He has missed some very imnportant throws and thrown some bad INT's. That is why Cincinnati let him walk and that is why the Bills should do the same. I enjoy watching him because he is able to put some points up on occasion, but he is not the answer in the long term. He is definitely an improvement over the last two QB's, but he is just not going to lead the team to the playoffs. He has the heart, just not the physical skills to do it.

I wouldn't count last years games, no one could have been very good in that offense.I don't see him as the QB of the future either, however I think he is getting better, and coming along in the new offense..How long has it been since we actually watched a desent offense, sure there not gonna have a great game every week, even Payton Manning didn't throw a touchdown last week and had a crappy game, but Fitz is playing well enough to draft a rookie and let him sit under Fitz for a year...

[skibum]

My observation, and pet theory, is that Fitz tries a little too hard to put the ball in a spot where the defender can't get to it. This leads to throws that are often just out of the receiver's reach. I think if he were truly off-target or reckless with the ball he would have a lot more picks by now. Again, it's just a theory.

 

I really hope Fitz gets his throwing issues worked out, because I absolutely love the way he plays the game.

 

Remember, Trent Edwards was very accurate. Lots of guys are "accurate" and still suck at quarterbacking in the NFL. It's all the little things that Fitz does that are so hard to find in a QB, and I think a QB has a much better chance at improving his accuracy than he does developing the kind of intangibles that Fitz has. Look at Vick, Vince Young, Roethlisberger. These guys all had suspect throwing skills but great instincts, and eventually they put together the total package because they got a lot of reps. I believe Fitz has the foundation you look for in a star QB, he just needs more time to hone the arm. Hopefully it will come around.

[peteski]

We finally got our first win. We are not going to make the playoffs so why not see what Brohm has. I am not saying let him play the rest of the year, but let him play 3 games. I would like to see what he has to offer.

[DanInUticaTampa]

Counting last year, Fitz has now played in 17 games for the Bills. He is certainly better than Trent Edwards, but I agree with the poster. He has a very hard time throwing the ball accurately. He has missed some very imnportant throws and thrown some bad INT's. That is why Cincinnati let him walk and that is why the Bills should do the same. I enjoy watching him because he is able to put some points up on occasion, but he is not the answer in the long term. He is definitely an improvement over the last two QB's, but he is just not going to lead the team to the playoffs. He has the heart, just not the physical skills to do it.

 

Agreed.

 

But I think people saying to bench him now just to "see what brohm can do" are insane. What has brohm done that warrents the bills to "test him out" so badly? The guy was a top QB prospect..... years ago. So was Jamarcus russel. I guess we should start him in a few games just to "see what he can do?"

 

But I personally am hoping we land a top QB in the next draft, hoping for luck.

 

We finally got our first win. We are not going to make the playoffs so why not see what Brohm has. I am not saying let him play the rest of the year, but let him play 3 games. I would like to see what he has to offer.

 

He has played before, and it wasn't very pretty. As least with Fitz the recievers and the offense are able to actually develop. Throw a QB in there that can't play "just to see what he can do" will pause the rest of the offense from developing just because of the slim chance brohm will actually be the future of the bills. Brohm has had his chances and he just isn't good. He looked bad in his start last year. And This guy looked bad in preseason and you think he is going to look better in a regular game?

Edited November 15, 2010 by DanInUticaTampa

[Beerball]

I hope he gets better but if he doesn't I still want to see Brian Brohm or draft a new QB.

and this differs from your previous posts in what way?

link

 

link

[Lucien K]

Fitzpatrick is great at reading defenses, knowing where to go with the ball, and working with Hangartner to identify blitzers and make sure the blocking scheme is correct. He will sling the ball, he feels pressure, is extremely mobile and a great runner, tough as nails, and the team responds to him. His achilles' heel would be his extreme lack of accuracy/losing grip on the ball a handful of times a game. This is why he is the ideal back-up and not a pro-bowler to me.

 

With our immediate need for pro-bowl RT, a nasty DE, and 2 nasty LB's, unless the front office identifies one of the QB's in the draft as franchise worthy, stick with Fitzy and draft for the trenches.

 

If you're lucky there is one NFL QB in a draft, 2 would be a phenomenal draft year. If the front office identifies him in earnest, pull the trigger. If not, try to fill those 4 major holes by taking 2 tackles, 2 DL, and 4 LB's. Draft 2 for each position of dire need. Amen.

[Wayne Cubed]

I just want to point something out here:

 

Last night I got into a QB discussion here about Sam Bradford, and how he is already a franchise-quality QB. Yet in almost every statistical category Fitz is outperforming him. So my contention is how we feel about a QB is directly related to how high he was drafted. If we drafted Andrew Luck and he was having an identical year to Fitzy we'd be deliriously happy. But since it's 7th round journeyman Ryan Fitzpatrick with the same stats we can't wait to replace him. It's no different than buying an expensive bottle of wine. It has to be better than the cheap crap because it was expensive, even if it isn't.

 

PTR

 

I must say, it kind of bothers me when people have an opinion on a player and someone doesnt agree and has to resort to name calling like numbskulls and idiot.

 

That being said, its great to compare stats, we could compare stats of Qb's all day long til we are all blue in the face. In the end there is only one stat that matters the most. Wins, period. Fitzpatrick just cant seem to get that most important of stats. Of which oddly, the guy you have chosen to compare has more of. And has in a way turned St. Louis around. And yes I know people will say its a team game and blah, blah, blah. Yet guys like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady continue to win, eventhough their defense is mediocre. It seems as though they can plug any player in on offense and it works. Why is that? Im sorry if some of us are of the opinion that fitz will never be one of those guys. We watch the games and see a guy who plays with lots of heart and has flashes of brillance. But who on many occasions(i counted 5 missed wide open recievers yesterday) is widely inaccurate. I dont think anyone here thinks fitzpatrick sucks. He makes the bills fun to watch. But just as Trent made a 5-1 bills team fun to watch, some of us choose to be cautious on nominating fitz the future.

 

Oh and not to punch holes in your theory that we get our opinions from ESPN and NFLN, but most of the analysts actually like Fitz. So if we followed them, we actually all be on the same page.

[The Big Cat]

Fitzpatrick is great at reading defenses, knowing where to go with the ball, and working with Hangartner to identify blitzers and make sure the blocking scheme is correct. He will sling the ball, he feels pressure, is extremely mobile and a great runner, tough as nails, and the team responds to him. His achilles' heel would be his extreme lack of accuracy/losing grip on the ball a handful of times a game. This is why he is the ideal back-up and not a pro-bowler to me.

 

With our immediate need for pro-bowl RT, a nasty DE, and 2 nasty LB's, unless the front office identifies one of the QB's in the draft as franchise worthy, stick with Fitzy and draft for the trenches.

 

If you're lucky there is one NFL QB in a draft, 2 would be a phenomenal draft year. If the front office identifies him in earnest, pull the trigger. If not, try to fill those 4 major holes by taking 2 tackles, 2 DL, and 4 LB's. Draft 2 for each position of dire need. Amen.

 

So in your universe, there's nothing in between an "ideal backup" and a pro-bowler, you have to be one or the other?

Got it.

 

I agree with the latter half of your post, but this prevailing sentiment here that it's either Brady or bench is just absurd.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

If Steve Johnson catches that pass over the middle in the fourth quarter (it was a perfect throw and hit him in the hands), we're looking at a blowout.

 

Fitz is 29. Rather than trying to "divine" whether he is objectively a backup or a starter, or whether he is objectively accurate or inaccurate, consider that he may be IMPROVING under Gailey's tutelage. Would you rather have any of these guys over Fitz:

 

Chad Henne

"Dirty" Sanchez

Vince Young

Carson Palmer

Colt McCoy

Travaris Jackson

Alex/Troy Smith

Kyle Orton

Matt Cassel

Matt Hasselbeck

Derek Anderson

David Garrard

Jimmy Claussen

Donavan McNabb

Jason Campbell

 

Because that's what 15 other teams likely will be trotting out next year. Fitz is in the top half of the league right now, and again, I stress, he may be IMPROVING.

 

Right. That is the only real discussion worth having right now. Firstly, the bills needn't decide this week what to draft with their picks, actually have until April 2011. Secondly, the only thing we know, for sure, is we aren't trading anyone for anyone until after the super bowl and That "Fitz has no upside" argument was incorrect.

 

 

 

He has had multiple games this season where he looked far better than last seasons.

 

 

 

So since He does have upside and we are not drafting or acquiring a better QB, why not see how he plays out the season and plan on working Brohm in here and there to see if he is worth keeping. After the conclusion of the season we will have a well developed assessment of what he is and what his potential is.

 

 

 

As an aside, I am starting to doubt the old adage “Accuracy can’t improve”, (see Michael Vick QB rating)

 

 

[JohnC]

Kitna-Delhomme-Smith-Fitz. If average is what you want average is what you get. If you aspire to be better than mediocre then you pursue better talent at the most important position on the roster.

 

There is a role for a player such as Fitz. Like John Kitna, who has been in the league for a lot of years, Fitz can also be a useful player and have the same extended career as a utility qb.