For those that want to draft something other than QB

[Bill from NYC]

So should you always draft a QB in the first round? Is that a sure fire way to turn a team around? Hard to say. It's worked with some teams (Colts) and not with others (Raiders).

 

Not so fast wrt the Colts. They used their first and second round picks to draft Tarik Glenn and Adam Meadows the year before they got Manning.

 

Drafthistory.com

Edited October 18, 2010 by Bill from NYC

[....lybob]

If you have a conviction that a college QB is going to be elite in the NFL you take him- what you don't do is take a QB with a high pick just because you need a QB and a guys next on the board.

[Captain Caveman]

How many wins did the OL picks generate. None. The Rams didn't start winning until they got the QB.

 

Right, but you need the line in place in order to have the conversation. Otherwise you wind up with David Carr.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Yes, but have you considered that the Bills would get LOTS more sacks if they played with a lead? If they played a game where the opposing offense didn't hold all the cards?

 

Right now the defense (and really the whole team) is playing their worst football. Why ? Because they know the season is OVER! It's hard to convince guys to risk bodily harm when it's obvious that the season is over. Hard to gauge just how bad this beaten down defense really is (I KNOW they suck, but these are the worst of times). They have been playing with little hope for the post season now for many years, no QB leadership at all. They go into everygame knowing that the offense is gonna suck. They can't get onto IR quick enough.

 

Now I've read everything. The defense sucks and is getting whipped because they know the offense is gonna suck?

 

Give. Me. A. Break.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

um you need to build the machine before you put a guy at the controls - that means, until the big pieces are in place like RT, LT, DE and MLB - there is no point in having a master at the control switch.

 

OK, let's say for just one second that you MIGHT be right. Let's make that bad assumption. Let's say you draft OL and DL until the cows come home and your team "improves" to 6 or 7 wins. You will NEVER get your franchise QB at that point, maybe another Losman or Edwards, and I don't give a flying frig how good you OL is, if you have Losman or Edwards behind it, it will be BAD.

 

Get what I'm saying? We have a once-in-a-decade opportunity to draft a QB. DRAFT A FUGGEN QB!

 

Jeex, you people have lost your minds in the past decade.

[Ramius]

Right, but you need the line in place in order to have the conversation. Otherwise you wind up with David Carr.

 

Yeah, and all those OLs didn't do anything to improve their W-L record, because the QB play was garbage. They still needed to use the #1 overall pick to take a QB. You don't pass up a franchise QB. No one is saying that you need to start them from day 1, but when you get the chance to take one, you take one.

 

David Carr was bad because he was a bad QB. His situation didn't help, but lets not pretend that he would have turned into Peyton Manning if he had a better line. We can take a QB at #1, get some OL help in rounds 2-3, and we can even sit the rook for his 1st season and play Fitzpatrick.

[Hplarrm]

OK, let's say for just one second that you MIGHT be right. Let's make that bad assumption. Let's say you draft OL and DL until the cows come home and your team "improves" to 6 or 7 wins. You will NEVER get your franchise QB at that point, maybe another Losman or Edwards, and I don't give a flying frig how good you OL is, if you have Losman or Edwards behind it, it will be BAD.

 

Get what I'm saying? We have a once-in-a-decade opportunity to draft a QB. DRAFT A FUGGEN QB!

 

Jeex, you people have lost your minds in the past decade.

However, real world experience simply shows that your "franchise" (a term of art rather than an absolute which you will need to define if you want to claim that certain QBs who in fact QB'ed their teams to SB wins are not "franchise" QBs as you define it)can be acquired through tons of other means than spending a 1st round pick on them.

 

For example- Drew Brees- fact is he was pivotal in QBing the Saints to the last SB win and is by most folks definitions a franchise QB which do come available in FA with more frequency than the conventional wisdom would imply (Favre or McNabb are two examples of some commerce in past proven SB winners).

 

For example- teams seem to with more often occurrence than the conventional wisdom would indicate run even HOF quality QBs out of town. TB with their stupid impatience with Steve Young and Brett Favre are the prime examples. However, the list of "busts" who then QB'ed a team to an SB victory includes folks like Dilfer and two time bust Brad Johnson.

 

For example- a UDFA like Kurt Warner not only got pulled from his job as a box-boy at Wal-mart to lead a team to the SB, but he even reappeared as a franchise QB with AZ.

 

For example- the issue here is not simply one of drafting but the costs of win you draft. The examples of stupid expenditures for Russell, Akili Smith or Ryan Leaf simply outweigh the relatively rare event of a Peyton Manning (who even in this best case has led to one SB win with a ton of help that demonstrates it is much more than a great QB that makes a team a great TEAM. Do you really believe it was just Manning? If so why did it take useful roles by a plethora of resources from Sanders and Freeney, to the best kicker in the NFL, to Polian magic with the entire roster, to adding in one of the best D HCs in the NFL to get them to the goal.

 

Even if you want to argue that all these average talents were in fact made great or better due to a great QB, then how do you explain the great QB proving incapable of winning (or even getting to the big game both before and after the one time it worked with him.

 

For example- the franchise QB in the form of folks like Elway or Eli Manning were acquired by trade rather than simply drafting them as you suggest.

 

The simple facts are that when compared to the field of other ways of acquiring SB winning QBs, simply drafting a QB who then delivers an SB win to the team which drafts him is actually an unusual occurrence.

 

It happened once with the late 80s choice by Dallas of Aikman and then a long drought occurred here in the real world until finally Peyton won one. Lest one be fooled by RoboQB quickly showing the ability of a rookie 1st round pick to deliver, one has to note that the Pitts team was a great team before RoboQB helped put them over the top and that no one mistakes the Bills from being one player away.

 

The only thing outrageous here is some insistence by some that drafting your franchise QB is the ONLY way to do this. The facts simply say otherwise.

[Punch]

For example- the franchise QB in the form of folks like Elway or Eli Manning were acquired by trade rather than simply drafting them as you suggest.

 

For all intents and purposes, those trades were essentially draft picks. They had never played in the NFL and Eli was a Charger for what, all of 45 minutes?

 

You're right though, drafting a franchise QB 1st is definitely not the only way to build a team, but if the right guy is there for the taking, then by all means a team should take him. If not, move on to the trenches. It's extremely difficult to find that kind of QB, not quite as difficult to find those type of linemen. This team has so many needs they almost couldn't go wrong either way, but they absolutely need the "right guy" under center.

[tennesseeboy]

They are about to go to 3-3 with the addition of Bradford. It is crazy to talk about drafting tackles if a QB available at 1. Having a great QB makes everything else better.

uhhhhh....Ryan Leaf?

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

This topic has been run into the ground. There is no point arguing anymore. People are so dug in at their position, that they won't budge (some guys want a linebacker instead. How can you reason with that person?).

 

There are still people out there that don't recognize that the NFL is completely based around the QB. And that even if the line sucks, if a top shelf prospect is available, the sooner he gets in Buffalo the better.

 

Yea. The sooner he gets to Buffalo, the sooner his career will be over and we can continue this conversation another year.

[Fan in San Diego]

What LT coming out this year is "Jake Long #1" worthy?

 

Which QB is #1 worthy? Qb's are the biggest long shots out there. Sign a FA QB if you have too! I'd be happy with Fitz until the other wholes are filled.

[akm0404]

According to this, there's some QB named Ryan Fitzpatrick who's tearing it up. Seriously, the guy is in the TOP 10!!

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating

 

The Bills should sign him to a HUGE multi-year deal for $50 mill or so. Hell, Bradford's a stiff, he's ranked 31st. Then again, it might have something to do with the fact that the Ram's defense doesn't play like cheese cloth.

 

 

Funny thing about numbers, they don't always tell the whole story!

 

Sweet, 198 yards per game.

 

Edit: Wonder if Fitzpatrick will finish the season with more yards than Manning and Rivers have after week 6. Would make for a good bet...

Edited October 18, 2010 by akm0404

[JohnC]

Dolphins

They went to the playoffs with an 11-5 record with the addition of Jake Long. It is crazy to talk about drafting a QB if a LT is available at 1. Having a great LT makes everything else better.

 

The Dolphins made a monumental mistake in not drafting Matt Ryan with their first pick. I'm sure the Falcons are glad that Parcells went with a big body instead of taking their potential premier franchise qb for the next decade or so. Henne, who was drafted in the second round, is a solid qb. He is not half the player Ryan is.

[robertpaul49]

The one piece of the equation that people are missing is the availability of a franchise quarterback in the draft.

 

The biggest mistake that the Bills made when drafting JP Losman was selecting Lee Evans first. The Bills had the opportunity to draft one of three franchise quarterbacks. They could have traded up, which is what the Giants did, and what they did later in the draft.

 

If there is a franchise quarterback the Bills should go after him, otherwise any other position would be better. It is too early in the process, but the Bills definitely need to draft a quarterback.

 

I'm glad that the Bills selected CJ Spiller because there wasn't a franchise quarterback they could have had, and I'm really glad that they finally didn't reach for a player who had been moving up mock drafts in a position of need, like JP Losman, Eric Flowers, and Arron Maybin, or a player of questionable character in a position of need, Marshawn Lynch, James Hardy, etc. (Marv didn't you say you were going to take character into account, this part really bothered me because it was something they were not going to do!)

 

The Bills need help at quarterback, offensive line, and linebacker. As long as they do not select another cornerback or running back, or do not make the same mistakes about reaching for a position of need, I will be happy.

[K-9]

I'm amazed that so many treat this as a linear process, regardless of their preferred "order" of positional importance.

 

For the umteenth time I present Bill Polian's list in order of positional importance (without Polian's explanation as to why. I'm tired of repeating it):

 

1.) QB

2.) DE

3.) LOT

4.) RB

5.) WR

 

But it's NOT LINEAR! Anyone who thinks that QB ISN'T the most important position on the field simply doesn't know what they're talking about. Each position on Polian's list DIRECTLY relates to the importance of the QB position. Just dont' reach for one.

 

This DOESN'T mean that if there is a blue chip LB that you don't take him. If there is a blue chip CB or S or G or C or DT or whatever rated that much higher than any other position (with the exception of punters and kickers) you take that player. Simple as that. Every team needs PLAYERS, who make PLAYS, regardless of position. Playmaker is ALWAYS a position of need. End of story.

 

All Polian is suggesting is that, all things being equal in any given draft, if you don't have a franchise QB, you take him. If you do and there is a DE rated highest, you take him. And so on down the line.

 

Again, though, in the real world it's NOT a linear process. It's going to be very amusing if the Bills' braintrust doesn't rate ANY QB coming out next year as worthy of that pick. They won't take a need position if there are higher rated players on their board. They will continue to take BPA and it's going to piss people off.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[K-9]

Not so fast wrt the Colts. They used their first and second round picks to draft Tarik Glenn and Adam Meadows the year before they got Manning.

 

Drafthistory.com

 

Taking nothing away from Glenn and Meadows, I'd venture to say that you and I could have played T for the Colts and Manning would have been just as good. It's not like either of them were like Ogden or Pace. They were OK but not dominant OTs. Glenn made the Pro Bowl a couple times, once as an alternate but other than that, he was adequate.

 

Judging from the way Manning has produced with such few Pro Bowl OLmen during his career, it's safe to say that he's made them far better than they've made him. I mean we're talking about one of the best to ever lace 'em up so it's not surprising.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[tennesseeboy]

I agree..if there is a john elway, peyton manning or better I say go for it. I'm not seeing such a quarterback in the mix so far.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Taking nothing away from Glenn and Meadows, I'd venture to say that you and I could have played T for the Colts and Manning would have been just as good. It's not like either of them were like Ogden or Pace. They were OK but not dominant OTs. Glenn made the Pro Bowl a couple times, once as an alternate but other than that, he was adequate.

 

Judging from the way Manning has produced with such few Pro Bowl OLmen during his career, it's safe to say that he's made them far better than they've made him. I mean we're talking about one of the best to ever lace 'em up so it's not surprising.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

Put Jim sorgi behind Glenn and meadows and the colts win 6 games, that's a fact.

[K-9]

I agree..if there is a john elway, peyton manning or better I say go for it. I'm not seeing such a quarterback in the mix so far.

 

Hell, Tenny. I don't even see any David Carrs or Brady Quinns. Luck, Mallet, and Locker ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE to their level at this point.

 

Stay away from QBs in the next draft. Take one when you are sure he's a franchise type. In the meantime, continue to build at every other position with players you rate highest.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Put Jim sorgi behind Glenn and meadows and the colts win 6 games, that's a fact.

 

That's generous.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[JohnC]

I agree..if there is a john elway, peyton manning or better I say go for it. I'm not seeing such a quarterback in the mix so far.

 

I'm not suggesting Andrew Luck is going to be the next Peyton Manning. It's still not certain that he is even coming out into the draft. However, he is, in my opinion, the most ready college qb prospect. From the couple of games I have seen him play he is the most prepared college qb who can quickly adapt to the pro game.

 

Even with a good pro prospect qb the bills have so many needs to address before they can even be a mediocre team. The Bills are more of an expansion caliber team than they are a competitive team.