Chan's relationship with Trent

[transient]

I never stated that the Jets will be a SB team. What I know for sure is that they are immensely better than the Bills. If you think the Bills are better than I am portraying them in this division then tell which team in the division is not better than the Bills? The three other teams in our division might not be as good as others are predicting. But that isn't my central point. As it stands going into this year it is my view, and the view of almost every NFL analayst on the planet, the Bills are the worst team in our division.

 

Sorry. Didn't mean to imply that YOU had stated the Jets would be a SB team. It was more in reference to the media overhyping them. What I'm saying is that the Bills are better via addition by subtraction, and that we may actually find that they have a few NFL caliber players when they institute some NFL caliber coaching/schemes. They also have a huge number of starters coming back. Only four games separated them in the standings from the Patriots*, yet the tone of your post suggests they were a 1-15 or 2-14 team. The Jets offense was predicated on their run game, and not one of their RBs from the league leading attack is returning. Their defensive philosophy is heavily based on a player who is likely to sit out the season in a contract dispute. The Pats* are aging and maybe this is the year that Belichick's smugness catches up to him (especially since his golden boy appears less than thrilled), and I'm not sure what to think about the Phins. Honestly, I think the biggest question in the division this year is what exactly will this edition of the Bills look like. Saying they're bad because they've always been bad overlooks the fact that their coaching was REALLY, REALLY bad... so much so that other teams' players actually commented in the press about how they felt bad for Bills' players, and the new regime may address this glaring fact. I fully expect the season to be a work in progress, but expect to see them look more like a team on the rise by the end of the season. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if they go 8-8, with the majority of the wins in the second half of the season. I also wouldn't be surprised to see the Jets crash and burn, especially if Sanchez cannot live up to expectations and their running game fails to resemble last year's.

[Bill from NYC]

Been a Whitner defender and love the Gailet attitude here, but I think it's bush league to do this. Whitner and company used to praise Jauron all the time. All I know is that Whitner needs to play like a pro bowler this year.

 

I think that Whitner missed something. It was a mix of senility and football stupidity that selected him at number 8. Then they played him a mile off scrimage in their bend but don't break Tampa-2. The entire scenario is dumb beyond words as Mangold (who they needed and passed on for this OK player) is signing his 55 million dollar contract extension, but I digress.

 

Donte Whitner is a 3rd or 4th round talent who is a multi-millionaire because of the same inept Jauron he is badmouthing. So, maybe he shouldn't be the one to be overly critical. That said, he was correct. Jauron was a horrible coach, one of the worst I have ever seen.

[Dorkington]

I've never understood the Whitner hate... He seems like a solid player to me... but, then again... I think a good portion of our players are solid, we just need to fill some holes and have better coaching.

[Wagon Circler]

Trent didn't do that bad? Let's see ... never finished a whole season healthy. More INTs than TDs. Averaged less than 2,000 yards per season. Yeah. He did great.

No 300 yard games either, I believe. No 300 yard games since Bledsoe about 100 years ago.

[Pyrocles]

I've always thought Marv was as a great leader of men, but not a great Xs and Os guy.

 

Stems from Marv insisting that the team that executed the best would win, thereby overlooking the fact that the team lining up across from them also happened to be conference champions. Throwing a wrinkle or two into a gameplan, especially in big games, happened to be a forte of all the coaches we faced those four years, and not a particular strength of Saint Levy.

[JohnC]

Sorry. Didn't mean to imply that YOU had stated the Jets would be a SB team. It was more in reference to the media overhyping them. What I'm saying is that the Bills are better via addition by subtraction, and that we may actually find that they have a few NFL caliber players when they institute some NFL caliber coaching/schemes. They also have a huge number of starters coming back. Only four games separated them in the standings from the Patriots*, yet the tone of your post suggests they were a 1-15 or 2-14 team. The Jets offense was predicated on their run game, and not one of their RBs from the league leading attack is returning. Their defensive philosophy is heavily based on a player who is likely to sit out the season in a contract dispute. The Pats* are aging and maybe this is the year that Belichick's smugness catches up to him (especially since his golden boy appears less than thrilled), and I'm not sure what to think about the Phins. Honestly, I think the biggest question in the division this year is what exactly will this edition of the Bills look like. Saying they're bad because they've always been bad overlooks the fact that their coaching was REALLY, REALLY bad... so much so that other teams' players actually commented in the press about how they felt bad for Bills' players, and the new regime may address this glaring fact. I fully expect the season to be a work in progress, but expect to see them look more like a team on the rise by the end of the season. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if they go 8-8, with the majority of the wins in the second half of the season. I also wouldn't be surprised to see the Jets crash and burn, especially if Sanchez cannot live up to expectations and their running game fails to resemble last year's.

 

There is no doubt that Chan Gailey is a major upgrade from DJ. That isn't the main problem with the Bills. The central issue with the Bills isn't the level of coaching as much as the lack of talent on the roster, especially compared to the other teams in our division.

 

You stated the Bills are a work in progress. Every team is a work in progress. If the Bills go on to an 8-8 record I will be very much pleasantly and stunningly surprised. Professional footall is a brutal sport where as the season advances it becomes an issue of attrition. When you are short on talent and depth to begin with the grinding season will place more challenges, not less.

 

My time frame is different from your shorter time frame. In my view, it is going to be another few years, at least, before this team can be a serious team. I recognize that and I'm fine with that schedule. What this franchise needs more than anything else is to start making sound decisions on a daily basis and in the long run things will work out.

 

A lot of the players who will make the roster this year will be gone next year. That is a step in the right direction. There comes a point where instead of trying to make do with your draft mistakes you need to replace those mistakes with better players who are also a better fit for what you are trying to do.

[Thunderstealer]

It was'nt a "wiff" on that play. Whitner made the mistake of trying to tackle the RB high instead of low.

 

Unfortunately Whitner has done that before, and still has not learned from that mistake.

 

If Donte Whitner can't face up and take a ball carrier down, or at least stand him up until help arrives, his playing time should be in question. He at this stage of his carrier should be the least of our worries.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

Great post, Buftex. I agree with almost all of that. It's impossible to know if, say, the Bills out partying together hurt them as individuals and as a team. I would argue it probably helped them as much or more than it hurt them to do that, do it together, and become that close. Football is an extremely violent game. A lot of players need that outlet or they wouldn't be able to deal with it. I don't think the Bills out all week or night hurt them at all in any of the games. The first one is the one we should have won.

help me understand why going out partying heavy and late, coupled with the likely hangovers, lack of sleep, reduced concentration, coordination, etc. doesn't hurt their playing skills (at all) the next day...

[yungmack]

help me understand why going out partying heavy and late, coupled with the likely hangovers, lack of sleep, reduced concentration, coordination, etc. doesn't hurt their playing skills (at all) the next day...

Mac Speedy was not only hung over for the first Super Bowl, he was still drunk. And had a legendary performance. Dock Ellis once pitched a no-hitter while tripping on acid.

[Guest dog14787]

There is no doubt that Chan Gailey is a major upgrade from DJ. That isn't the main problem with the Bills. The central issue with the Bills isn't the level of coaching as much as the lack of talent on the roster, especially compared to the other teams in our division.

 

You stated the Bills are a work in progress. Every team is a work in progress. If the Bills go on to an 8-8 record I will be very much pleasantly and stunningly surprised. Professional footall is a brutal sport where as the season advances it becomes an issue of attrition. When you are short on talent and depth to begin with the grinding season will place more challenges, not less.

 

My time frame is different from your shorter time frame. In my view, it is going to be another few years, at least, before this team can be a serious team. I recognize that and I'm fine with that schedule. What this franchise needs more than anything else is to start making sound decisions on a daily basis and in the long run things will work out.

 

A lot of the players who will make the roster this year will be gone next year. That is a step in the right direction. There comes a point where instead of trying to make do with your draft mistakes you need to replace those mistakes with better players who are also a better fit for what you are trying to do.

 

Myself personally, without the proper Coaching/management its hard to evaluate or develop talent.

 

With the addition of CJ Spiller the Buffalo Bills are talented enough to compete in the AFC East for the title in my opinion. I predict head to head games in the east from one AFC East opponent to the other are going to be very evenly distributed in the win / loss column this season and a dog fight to the very end.

[Kelly the Dog]

help me understand why going out partying heavy and late, coupled with the likely hangovers, lack of sleep, reduced concentration, coordination, etc. doesn't hurt their playing skills (at all) the next day...

1. They did it all the time, and they were great players on game days, and proved it dozens of times. Do you think they never partied on Saturday night before their games and then suddenly when they went to the Super Bowl they decided that would be a good idea?

 

2. A lot of guys party a lot in professional sports. It's an outlet. Kelly was crazy, a madman, and a party animal. It helped him as a player to be like that. It was part of his toughness, fearlessness and swagger. There are endless anecdotes of pro athletes staying out all night and being great the next day in the games. Babe Ruth made a career out of it (incidently the best baseball player of all time). Not saying everyone should do it but for some guys it helps as much as it hurts.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Kelly the Fair and Balanced Dog

[JohnC]

Myself personally, without the proper Coaching/management its hard to evaluate or develop talent.

 

With the addition of CJ Spiller the Buffalo Bills are talented enough to compete in the AFC East for the title in my opinion. I predict head to head games in the east from one AFC East opponent to the other are going to be very evenly distributed in the win / loss column this season and a dog fight to the very end.

 

I respectfully disagree with your opinion that the Bills are currently talented enough to compete in the AFC East. Not that it really matters but I haven't encountered a NFL analyst who hasn't put us last in the division.

 

We will just have to wait and see how the games turn out.

 

Where I do agree with you is your view that with a more accomplished coaching staff and front office they should be better at evaluating players. That in itself is a good start to moving in the right direction.

[transient]

There is no doubt that Chan Gailey is a major upgrade from DJ. That isn't the main problem with the Bills. The central issue with the Bills isn't the level of coaching as much as the lack of talent on the roster, especially compared to the other teams in our division.

 

You stated the Bills are a work in progress. Every team is a work in progress. If the Bills go on to an 8-8 record I will be very much pleasantly and stunningly surprised. Professional footall is a brutal sport where as the season advances it becomes an issue of attrition. When you are short on talent and depth to begin with the grinding season will place more challenges, not less.

 

My time frame is different from your shorter time frame. In my view, it is going to be another few years, at least, before this team can be a serious team. I recognize that and I'm fine with that schedule. What this franchise needs more than anything else is to start making sound decisions on a daily basis and in the long run things will work out.

 

A lot of the players who will make the roster this year will be gone next year. That is a step in the right direction. There comes a point where instead of trying to make do with your draft mistakes you need to replace those mistakes with better players who are also a better fit for what you are trying to do.

 

Fundamentally, I think we are looking at the future of this team in the same way. You may be right, but I'm not convinced that it's a slam dunk that they're the most talentless team in the league. I don't believe that the talent gap is as wide as is commonly portrayed. I am convinced the previous coaches couldn't maximize the talent that they did have because they were terrible coaches. Bad teams/coaches can make some pretty good players look pretty bad. Brett Favre and Steve Young come to mind immediately. I'm not saying we have anyone equivalent to either on the team, but I am saying we had 53+ guys that were utilized well below their potential last year. The notable improvement with Fewell as the head coach speaks to that.

 

This season there is a head coach and GM who clearly have a vision of the team they want, something DJ never had in the time he was here, at least not offensively (defensively, he had the small part right for the Tampa 2, but I think he missed the memo about the quick part, secondary excluded). My hope is that Gailey is better at utilizing players' strengths and overcoming their weaknesses than a high school coach, and that Nix is a good enough talent evaluator to get him the players he needs over the next few years. Based on the recent discussion of DJ's lack of adjustments, as well as the fact that TE stated something to the effect of 'This is the first time in my career that I'm in an offense that calls plays to set up other plays later in the game', they managed to win 6 games last year with a coach/OC who had no fundamental understanding of how the game is played.

[JohnC]

Fundamentally, I think we are looking at the future of this team in the same way. You may be right, but I'm not convinced that it's a slam dunk that they're the most talentless team in the league. I don't believe that the talent gap is as wide as is commonly portrayed.

 

I'm not suggesting they are the least talented team in the league. I am, however, saying that they are in the lower tier of the league. Within our own division I feel comfortable saying that the the Bills have a long way to go before climbing out of its own divisisonal cellar.

 

With this new regime the Bills have dramatically changed the scheme and philosophy of the defense. It is going to take time to get the right players to play in that 3-4 scheme.

 

Our front office has decided to build through the draft. I agree with that approach. If you primarily rely on the draft to staff your team then the rebuilding process is going to take at LEAST a few years.

 

There are a lot of people who clamor for drafting a qb with a high first round pick. If the Bills do so, assuming they get the right qb, then it will take at least three or four years to get that qb prepared to the point that he can successfully lead a team.

 

As I have stated on a number of posts this roster is going go through a major turnover and it is going to take years to get to the point of being a serious team. The Bills have no choice. A blueprint has been established. You run a marathon by going one mile at a time. There is no other way around it.

[jwolf02]

I think the argument is that when there is continuity for a QB within an offensive system and with a coach, it becomes easier for that QB to experience success.

 

The quarterback can build additional layers of competency upon a foundation that's been laid in previous seasons.

 

At some point a quarterback can probably "put it in autopilot" if they've been in a system long enough. Certain tasks become second nature.

 

The stability and the constant repetition would seem to me to be a big advantage. Mastery and understanding is only achieved through repetition.

 

The other reason I excerpted that quote was because while there are a few quarterbacks who've endured instability in their NFL careers (Alex Smith is another one), Trent has had to deal with instability during his college AND his professional career.

 

That's something that hasn't been mentioned very much around here and in fairness to Trent, it's a significant bit of his history and it should be mentioned.

 

It might be spin but you could actually say he's overcome a good deal to have started so many games in the NFL.

 

And I'm not a big Trent believer. But IMO that's a bit of an uphill battle that he's had.

 

I completely agree and I wasn't trying to argue against that.

 

What I was saying is that I've heard that mentioned about Trent, or other QBs, as an argument regarding their success in the pending season. As if, "now that Chan is here for two months, Trent is sure to have a great year." Like I mentioned before, I'm not implying you're making that argument.

 

My basic point is that for Trent to get to the point where he's on autopilot, he needs at least a season or so, right? And if he's anything but great this year, he won't get the chance.

[ganesh]

My basic point is that for Trent to get to the point where he's on autopilot, he needs at least a season or so, right? And if he's anything but great this year, he won't get the chance.

 

I don't think he needs to be great...He needs to show that he is not an injury risk (play 16 games), he can take risks and throw the ball down consistently, move the chain and have a 8+ win season. If he can show that consistency in this offense, I believe he can go into the auto-pilot next season.

[Cynical]

I think the argument is that when there is continuity for a QB within an offensive system and with a coach, it becomes easier for that QB to experience success.

 

The quarterback can build additional layers of competency upon a foundation that's been laid in previous seasons.

 

At some point a quarterback can probably "put it in autopilot" if they've been in a system long enough. Certain tasks become second nature.

 

The stability and the constant repetition would seem to me to be a big advantage. Mastery and understanding is only achieved through repetition.

 

The other reason I excerpted that quote was because while there are a few quarterbacks who've endured instability in their NFL careers (Alex Smith is another one), Trent has had to deal with instability during his college AND his professional career.

 

That's something that hasn't been mentioned very much around here and in fairness to Trent, it's a significant bit of his history and it should be mentioned.

 

Except the 'instability' Trent has suffered during his pro career is somewhat overblown.

Yes, Trent had 3 OC during Jauron's tenure. What's missing from the article (and this discussion) is the fact Trent was running the same base offense during those 3 years.

 

How soon we forget when Fairchild left and the Turk was promoted, it was done with the concept of continuity in mind.

IIRC, there was an article where Turk said he was using the same exact signal calls as Fairchild did in order to keep continuity, and to reduce the amount of "new" material the offense had to learn.

[Guest dog14787]

I think the argument is that when there is continuity for a QB within an offensive system and with a coach, it becomes easier for that QB to experience success.

 

The quarterback can build additional layers of competency upon a foundation that's been laid in previous seasons.

 

At some point a quarterback can probably "put it in autopilot" if they've been in a system long enough. Certain tasks become second nature.

 

The stability and the constant repetition would seem to me to be a big advantage. Mastery and understanding is only achieved through repetition.

 

The other reason I excerpted that quote was because while there are a few quarterbacks who've endured instability in their NFL careers (Alex Smith is another one), Trent has had to deal with instability during his college AND his professional career.

 

That's something that hasn't been mentioned very much around here and in fairness to Trent, it's a significant bit of his history and it should be mentioned.

 

It might be spin but you could actually say he's overcome a good deal to have started so many games in the NFL.

 

And I'm not a big Trent believer. But IMO that's a bit of an uphill battle that he's had.

 

Great post San Jose

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Except the 'instability' Trent has suffered during his pro career is somewhat overblown.

Yes, Trent had 3 OC during Jauron's tenure. What's missing from the article (and this discussion) is the fact Trent was running the same base offense during those 3 years.

 

How soon we forget when Fairchild left and the Turk was promoted, it was done with the concept of continuity in mind.

IIRC, there was an article where Turk said he was using the same exact signal calls as Fairchild did in order to keep continuity, and to reduce the amount of "new" material the offense had to learn.

Good point, Cynical.

 

Great post San Jose

Thanks, Dog. It was better until that jerk, Cynical weighed in.

[Flipper]

 

I have long provided statistical back-up for this perspective that show while there are some idiots like a Rich Kotite who seem to be able to lose badly almost anywhere and an even smaller number of Bill Parcells who can win just anount anywhere that for the most part the coaching record is made up of folks like Belicheat who simply sucked the big one in Cleveburg while being a boy genius (with a healthy does of cheating and dumb luck {he likely would have been forced to ride Bledsoe to a .500 record if not for an uncharacteristic LB hit collapsed his lung and he got to ride the Tom Brady bandwagon even though he like the rest of the league passed on drafting one of the best players ever 5 or mote times. Marv is a perfect example of an HC who stunk up the joint in the KC situation prior to delegating the Bills to an HoF career for him. Likewise clear winning HCs like Vince Lombardi simply sucked as am HC with the Deadskins.

 

Hplarrm, please forgive the late reply to your post, but your point about the distribution of quality NFL coaches - while essentially valid, IMO - would have been better made if it hadn't contained the notable bit of misinformation about Lombardi seen in bold above. In regards to this topic, Lombardi - with his 9-1 playoff record and his 105-35-6 overall record - belongs in the elite category of coaches who never experienced a losing season, a feat more remarkable for the fact that he twice took over NFL franchises long accustomed to losing.

 

 

In 1969 Lombardi, in his first season with the team, coached the Redskins to a record of 7-5-2, their first winning season since 1955. He didn't live long enough to coach a second season, as he was diagnosed with cancer in June of 1970, succumbing September 3 that year.

 

 

As regards Levy's inability to win 'the big one', this reality is even more unfortunate to any extent that it delays or prevents the entry of certain Bills players of that era to the NFL Hall of Fame, where a number of them almost certainly deserve to be enshrined.