Who agrees with the statement by Peter King?

[bladiebla]

There are a lot of factors that go into the making of a great NFL QB. But the three indispensable ones are: Quick and correct recognition of the defense; quick release, and accuracy. And it goes without saying that you must do those things consistently. Without those three, all the leadership, all the toughness, all the powerful arm, all the size in the world mean nothing.

 

You forgot.. a chance. You must have that skill set coming out from college or you are done, unless you get very lucky and find time through injuries of others. Warner got lucky. Others like Hamdan didnt. Not strange given the investments made as forced by the draft structure (pay heaps for a QB and pray you get what you bought).

[Green Lightning]

You forgot.. a chance. You must have that skill set coming out from college or you are done, unless you get very lucky and find time through injuries of others. Warner got lucky. Others like Hamdan didnt. Not strange given the investments made as forced by the draft structure (pay heaps for a QB and pray you get what you bought).

 

 

Umm, Hamden = Warner - a chance? Don't think so.

[yungmack]

Nice Hunter Thompson avatar!

Well, thank you.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Edwards is very accurate on those 23 inch "deep" outs...

[Alphadawg7]

"Bradford said his surgically repaired right shoulder hasn't bothered him at camp. He said he was very happy with his accuracy in camp. Quarterbacks in the NFL need lots of traits to succeed, but none is more important than that last one -- accuracy. At the base of it all, that's why Tom Brady and Drew Brees and Peyton Manning have succeeded. And it's why JaMarcus Russell, Cade McNown and Kyle Boller didn't."

 

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ...l#ixzz0w7KDLziK

 

I hear this all of the time, whether its from NFL people or the high-end NFL media. Assuming that is true - or, rather, that most people of consequence in the league believe it to be true - it would explain the continuing hope that Edwards will pan out.

 

You are correct...A lot of the continued optimism for Trent has stemmed from him being so "accurate". The problem is Trent is not nearly as accurate as they want to believe, at least not in the past.

 

What they fail to realize is that his ocmpletion % is only as high as it is because of the high number of dump offs, screens, and other short passes he has thrown. His actual down field accuracy has been poor, in fact, even on a lot of completed passes the ball was inaccurately thrown causing the WR to have to go high/low to catch it, stop his route, or break off his route.

 

This is why for someone like him who is allegedly so accurate struggles big time to actually move the chains, pick up first downs or score points...its because he gets anywhere from 5 to 15 completions a game that are behind the LOS, at the LOS, or under 5 yards in front of the LOS...if you reduced the number of those to a typical amount, his completion % would be in the mid 50's easily or maybe worse.

 

I really do hope this changes this year, but camp reports havent been the most encouraging as he seems to still struggle with his accuracy. Its still early though and there have apparently been days where he has shown promise, so lets hope he can find a way to find some consistency.

[dave mcbride]

You are correct...A lot of the continued optimism for Trent has stemmed from him being so "accurate". The problem is Trent is not nearly as accurate as they want to believe, at least not in the past.

 

What they fail to realize is that his ocmpletion % is only as high as it is because of the high number of dump offs, screens, and other short passes he has thrown. His actual down field accuracy has been poor, in fact, even on a lot of completed passes the ball was inaccurately thrown causing the WR to have to go high/low to catch it, stop his route, or break off his route.

 

This is why for someone like him who is allegedly so accurate struggles big time to actually move the chains, pick up first downs or score points...its because he gets anywhere from 5 to 15 completions a game that are behind the LOS, at the LOS, or under 5 yards in front of the LOS...if you reduced the number of those to a typical amount, his completion % would be in the mid 50's easily or maybe worse.

 

I really do hope this changes this year, but camp reports havent been the most encouraging as he seems to still struggle with his accuracy. Its still early though and there have apparently been days where he has shown promise, so lets hope he can find a way to find some consistency.

I disagree to an extent with what you say above. Using the ol' eyeball test, he's a far more accurate thrower than Losman, Fitzpatrick, etc. Going back to his first season, he has always been good at hitting receivers in stride on the short to mid-range (10-15 yards) passes. He certainly regressed last year, but he's obviously *capable* of being highly accurate. The same can't be said for a lot of guys.

[PromoTheRobot]

"Bradford said his surgically repaired right shoulder hasn't bothered him at camp. He said he was very happy with his accuracy in camp. Quarterbacks in the NFL need lots of traits to succeed, but none is more important than that last one -- accuracy. At the base of it all, that's why Tom Brady and Drew Brees and Peyton Manning have succeeded. And it's why JaMarcus Russell, Cade McNown and Kyle Boller didn't."

 

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ...l#ixzz0w7KDLziK

 

I hear this all of the time, whether its from NFL people or the high-end NFL media. Assuming that is true - or, rather, that most people of consequence in the league believe it to be true - it would explain the continuing hope that Edwards will pan out.

File this with "...if you score more than the other guy, you usually win."

 

PTR

[Fingon]

Accuracy and the ability to read defenses are the two most important things for a QB to have.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Some of yo are making wildly inaccurate statements.

 

edit: Looks like I missed my "u" key.

[BillsFanM.D.]

No, Who played the halftime of last year's Super Bowl.

 

...that was funny (both the comment and, sadly, the performance...though I like the Who).

[ndirish1978]

You got it.

 

And I question TE's accuracy downfield. I'm not saying he isn't accurate, but I haven't seen enough of it to be sure he is.

 

He has good accuracy. What he does not have is good decision-making. Even a very accurate passer will look like a fool if he reads the defense wrong and throws a perfectly positioned ball into the path of a defender he never saw. He had some issues with decision-making before that big hit he took against phoenix 2 years ago and ever since then we a;; know he just takes the cheap way out and checks down rather than even bothering to make a tough decision to throw downfield when he is pressured. In short, I think Trent has good accuracy short and long, but his pocket presence is terrible and the latter influences the former.

[The Dean]

He has good accuracy. What he does not have is good decision-making. Even a very accurate passer will look like a fool if he reads the defense wrong and throws a perfectly positioned ball into the path of a defender he never saw. He had some issues with decision-making before that big hit he took against phoenix 2 years ago and ever since then we a;; know he just takes the cheap way out and checks down rather than even bothering to make a tough decision to throw downfield when he is pressured. In short, I think Trent has good accuracy short and long, but his pocket presence is terrible and the latter influences the former.

 

 

I think you may be right about all that. I was going to post something similar, actually. I think Trent seems to be accurate when everything goes his way. But as was noted earlier in this thread, that goes out the window when he is pressured or forced to move in the pocket. Now, it's true most QBs are less accurate when pressured, but some do better than others on the move. It all seems to go to hell with Trent.

 

The most troublesome part of all that is, some of that pressure is of Trent's own making. This isn't to excuse the terrible OL play. Clearly he isn't getting the best protection to begin with. But if he would let the ball go before his WR make the cut, before he is WIDE open, and trust his guy to make the play, he would have less pressure to contend with. Of course, this requires great accuracy.

 

Is Trent actually accurate on the medium-to-long routes? I can't say I have seen enough to know for sure. I think if he were confident in his accuracy (and in his WRs) he'd let the damn thing go. Maybe the coaching/game plan was holding him back. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as I want him, or any Bills QB, to succeed. But if I were the HC, he'd be on a short leash if he continues to demonstrate reluctance to let the damn thing fly.

[dave mcbride]

I think you may be right about all that. I was going to post something similar, actually. I think Trent seems to be accurate when everything goes his way. But as was noted earlier in this thread, that goes out the window when he is pressured or forced to move in the pocket. Now, it's true most QBs are less accurate when pressured, but some do better than others on the move. It all seems to go to hell with Trent.

 

The most troublesome part of all that is, some of that pressure is of Trent's own making. This isn't to excuse the terrible OL play. Clearly he isn't getting the best protection to begin with. But if he would let the ball go before his WR make the cut, before he is WIDE open, and trust his guy to make the play, he would have less pressure to contend with. Of course, this requires great accuracy.

 

Is Trent actually accurate on the medium-to-long routes? I can't say I have seen enough to know for sure. I think if he were confident in his accuracy (and in his WRs) he'd let the damn thing go. Maybe the coaching/game plan was holding him back. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as I want him, or any Bills QB, to succeed. But if I were the HC, he'd be on a short leash if he continues to demonstrate reluctance to let the damn thing fly.

At the risk of sounding like a shill for Edwards (who, for the record, I thought played very poorly last year), I'll throw this out there: the normal pressure that an NFL qb faces and that which Edwards faced last year aren't the same thing. I distinctly remember games last year (e.g., the first Miami game) where virtually every play looked like a jailbreak vs. the Bills' terrible offensive line. It was an out-of-the-ordinary bad situation with regard to pressure.

[The Dean]

At the risk of sounding like a shill for Edwards (who, for the record, I thought played very poorly last year), I'll throw this out there: the normal pressure that an NFL qb faces and that which Edwards faced last year aren't the same thing. I distinctly remember games last year (e.g., the first Miami game) where virtually every play looked like a jailbreak vs. the Bills' terrible offensive line. It was an out-of-the-ordinary bad situation with regard to pressure.

 

 

Agreed. JP often had that same experience, BTW.

 

But those aren't the situations I am referring to when I talk about pressure of Trent's own making. Situations when he is simply getting mauled from the get-go are when he needs to deliver than check-down, and he does fairly well with that, IMO (much better than JP). But maybe he's so used to doing that it's hard for him to break out of it when the pressure is "normal", if that makes any sense.

[theranter]

Or it could mean he sucks, which is a monotonous and consistent thing.

 

I don't know how accuracy and TE ever became linked, it certainly wasn't from anyone watching him throw.

 

GO BILLS!

 

PS- I'm not being mean, he really stinks!

 

Even when he went 5& 1, if you watched closely, most of his throws went to wide-open stationary targets and most of the passes were late and off the mark (negating any RAC yrds.))

[dave mcbride]

Agreed. JP often had that same experience, BTW.

 

But those aren't the situations I am referring to when I talk about pressure of Trent's own making. Situations when he is simply getting mauled from the get-go are when he needs to deliver than check-down, and he does fairly well with that, IMO (much better than JP). But maybe he's so used to doing that it's hard for him to break out of it when the pressure is "normal", if that makes any sense.

It makes perfect sense.

[Beebe's Kid]

This is a classic thread...

 

Not that all of the traits aren't important, and "great" means that you can do all of the things mentioned at an uncommonly high level. However...all of the things mentioned are for naught if you can not throw the football where it needs to go. You could read the D...inspire the hell out of everybody, but if you can't get the ball where it needs to go, you fail.

 

Fitzy is a good example. He is smart, the made plays with his feet when the **** hit the fan. The guys seemed to like playing with him. He threw the ball downfield, etc... he just couldn't really throw a football, or at least thrown one accurately.

[DDD]

Actually, when they ran an offense that was built around him, in 2006, he was pretty accurate and did OK on pocket awareness, which wasn't easy with that OL:

 

LT: Gandy for the first 7 games, and Peters for the last 9

LG: Tutan Reyes and then Mike Gandy

C: Melvin Fowler

RG: Chris Villarrial in his last painfully slow year, and then Duke Preston

RT: Jason Peters for the first seven games and then Terrance Pennington

 

Except for Peters, there's nothing there. Nothing.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/team...2006_roster.htm

 

Then, noticing precisely that opening up the offense had brought out the best in JP in the second half of the year, they cleverly closed up the offense for the rest of his time in Buffalo. That wily, wary, Steve Fairchild.

 

2006: 62.5%, 7.1 YPA, 19 TDs/ 14 INTs. Not bad for a guy who, going into the season had 13 games experience, in the first four of which he threw a cumulative total of five passes. Not a franchise season, but definitely something to build on, if they hadn't taken a left turn instead.

 

Please. It wouldn't matter if Will Wolford, Jim Ritcher, Kent Hull, Billy Shaw, Joe D. or Howard Ballard were blocking.

All JP could do was heave a ball down field that hopefully Lee Evans could run under and catch.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Is Trent actually accurate on the medium-to-long routes? I can't say I have seen enough to know for sure. I think if he were confident in his accuracy (and in his WRs) he'd let the damn thing go. Maybe the coaching/game plan was holding him back. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as I want him, or any Bills QB, to succeed. But if I were the HC, he'd be on a short leash if he continues to demonstrate reluctance to let the damn thing fly.

This is really the point, though. To be an elite QB (like Peyton Manning, per the original piece) one has to be able to throw with accuracy all over the field. There has to be the threat that the QB will be able to do damage anywhere in the secondary. With Edwards at QB, that threat is (even with the official red and blue homer glasses in place) minimal at best. It was the real reason that he lost the starting job to the likes of Ryan "No Threat To Start" Fitzpatrick last season -- Fitzpatrick would take chances and push the ball down the field, regardless of the condition of the pocket, at least once in a while. He gave the offense a bit of breathing room, rather than letting the defense clamp down like a vice grip.

[Coach Tuesday]

Does anyone remember the throw that Edwards made to Josh Reed on the last drive of the Redskins game a few years back? I know you can't declare someone accurate or inaccurate based on one pass, but that throw was one of the most accurate throws I've ever seen. The pass he threw to Evans in Jacksonville a few years ago was a close second.

 

Edwards' problem is accuracy under pressure, as a few here have noted. In fact, according to this Football Outsiders study, Trent-o was the second worst QB in the League under pressure last year.

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-poi...-under-pressure