Tony Washington

[RyanC882]

The incident happened over seven years ago when Washington was a teenager.

 

It was reportedly consensual, not rape.

 

It is also reported that he maintains a familial relationship with his sister.

 

It is a fact that he complied with all the requirements imposed on him by the courts.

 

Now his whole career is on hold because of this incident that happened that long ago?

 

In all of these cases, the first question is, does the punishment fit the crime?

 

Would it be a fair punishment if he were deprived of his chosen career for the rest of his life?

I wonder how many teams interviewed him and how those interviews went.

 

It's been a bit of a mild surprise that Washington wasn't drafted.

 

He was rated on most of the draft boards that we all saw.

 

That he has not signed anywhere is somewhat unexpected, IMO.

 

I think that rather than exhibiting moral courage, that the NFL teams which took him off their boards solely on the basis of this incident are showing a lack of moral courage. They are afraid to deal with the backlash and questions. They are acting cowardly.

 

Washington has paid his debt. He will live with the stigma forever. He will be reminded of this transgression by fans on a weekly basis if ever he plays in the NFL.

 

Is it hard for us to believe that he may be rehabilitated and could perhaps redeem himself?

 

If I owned a sports team, I would have interviewed and evaluated Washington and if he seemed like he was mentally stable, I would give him a chance to make my team.

 

+1. There is a time to forgive and move on. Teams that are passing him over are cowards.

[Mr. ChumChums]

Mutual consent?? An act of passion??---holy sh**T!!!

 

How do you know this?? His sister consented to having her BIG bro have sex with her when she was 15 (and it started and ended right there?)? You must come from "Tony"'s home town!

 

You believe BR's first accuser when it is clear that she perpetrated a fraud against the state where she filed charges and is in the process of doing the same in civil court? And you believe her? It is clear you have no familiarity with the facts of that case.

 

You arer free to believe what you want, but you can't attempt to convince others to agree with you if you chose ignore what disturbs your view of reality.

 

I think that Washington's interview response of "It's pretty common where I'm from" is very telling.

 

Yes, we all know that apparently, the sex was consensual.

Yes, at the same time, since she was a minor, it is considered statutory rape.

And yes, it was his sister...ew..

 

But we have to keep in mind that (and correct me if I'm wrong), that none of us were raised in a single-parent household in the ghetto, in the deep south. Those are very SPECIFIC circumstances. I think the fact that he said "it's pretty common" tells us more about his upbringing, than how some people interpreted that he doesn't feel like it was wrong to begin with. None of us know what kind of lifestyle, or what kind of situational circumstances led to what he did. What if she came on to him, and he just didn't have the moral willpower to say no? What if he was forced into position where he had to care for his family, and one thing led to another, and he and his sister ended up in bed?

 

We don't know, and none of us really know.

 

This is a really bad example, but I'm having trouble thinking in the morning, but if there are 2 men in a dark alleyway, and one was going to mug the other, the other man has to fight back. What if he ends up killing his attacker? Is he a murderer? Or did circumstances complicate the situation, justifying his actions? (not saying though, that what Tony Washington did was justifiable...just saying for the sake of argument here)

 

For the record, I am against bringing him in, but solely because it would be a PR nightmare for the team. The community would be angry, and it would be difficult for the masses to root for the team. So I can understand the people that are against bringing him in. You all bring valid points. But at the same time, none of us really know what happened, so it's hard for us to judge.

[abqmarko]

The incident happened over seven years ago when Washington was a teenager.

 

It was reportedly consensual, not rape.

 

It is also reported that he maintains a familial relationship with his sister.

 

It is a fact that he complied with all the requirements imposed on him by the courts.

 

Now his whole career is on hold because of this incident that happened that long ago?

 

In all of these cases, the first question is, does the punishment fit the crime?

 

Would it be a fair punishment if he were deprived of his chosen career for the rest of his li

 

 

I wonder how many teams interviewed him and how those interviews went.

 

It's been a bit of a mild surprise that Washington wasn't drafted.

 

He was rated on most of the draft boards that we all saw.

 

That he has not signed anywhere is somewhat unexpected, IMO.

 

I think that rather than exhibiting moral courage, that the NFL teams which took him off their boards solely on the basis of this incident are showing a lack of moral courage. They are afraid to deal with the backlash and questions. They are acting cowardly.

 

Washington has paid his debt. He will live with the stigma forever. He will be reminded of this transgression by fans on a weekly basis if ever he plays in the NFL.

 

Is it hard for us to believe that he may be rehabilitated and could perhaps redeem himself?

 

If I owned a sports team, I would have interviewed and evaluated Washington and if he seemed like he was mentally stable, I would give him a chance to make my team.

 

I agree good points.

 

With the league the way it is now-murder, drugs, rapes, animal cruelty (glad Goodell has been tougher). He paid his debt, this didnt happen yesterday-he's been clean over 7 years. He obviously came from a pretty screwed up family enviornment in the first place, give him a break. I'd feel differently if it was not consensual and if he had any sort of pattern of other misconduct, it appears not.

[abqmarko]

Does anyone know the specifics?

 

Was it his biological sister, 1/2 sister?

 

What was the age difference?

 

What sort of sentence did he get?

 

Did he have any type of additional misconduct after the offense?

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I think that Washington's interview response of "It's pretty common where I'm from" is very telling.

 

Yes, we all know that apparently, the sex was consensual.

Yes, at the same time, since she was a minor, it is considered statutory rape.

And yes, it was his sister...ew..

But we have to keep in mind that (and correct me if I'm wrong), that none of us were raised in a single-parent household in the ghetto, in the deep south. Those are very SPECIFIC circumstances. I think the fact that he said "it's pretty common" tells us more about his upbringing, than how some people interpreted that he doesn't feel like it was wrong to begin with. None of us know what kind of lifestyle, or what kind of situational circumstances led to what he did. What if she came on to him, and he just didn't have the moral willpower to say no? What if he was forced into position where he had to care for his family, and one thing led to another, and he and his sister ended up in bed?

 

We don't know, and none of us really know.

 

This is a really bad example, but I'm having trouble thinking in the morning, but if there are 2 men in a dark alleyway, and one was going to mug the other, the other man has to fight back. What if he ends up killing his attacker? Is he a murderer? Or did circumstances complicate the situation, justifying his actions? (not saying though, that what Tony Washington did was justifiable...just saying for the sake of argument here)

 

For the record, I am against bringing him in, but solely because it would be a PR nightmare for the team. The community would be angry, and it would be difficult for the masses to root for the team. So I can understand the people that are against bringing him in. You all bring valid points. But at the same time, none of us really know what happened, so it's hard for us to judge.

 

But he was also a minor and only a year older than her. I'm pretty sure that's not statutory rape. This really isn't about the ages involved...when you were 16, weren't there 15 year olds you wanted to bone? Me too.

 

Here's my request...somebody on this board who thinks Washington is a bad guy, explain to me logically why having consensual sex with your sister is morally wrong and not just weird.

[Mr. ChumChums]

But he was also a minor and only a year older than her. I'm pretty sure that's not statutory rape. This really isn't about the ages involved...when you were 16, weren't there 15 year olds you wanted to bone? Me too.

 

Here's my request...somebody on this board who thinks Washington is a bad guy, explain to me logically why having consensual sex with your sister is morally wrong and not just weird.

 

I think it IS statutory rape, either way. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think responsibility goes to the older party?

 

Not sure. Someone well versed in these laws correct me!

 

Either way, I see your point.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I think it IS statutory rape, either way. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think responsibility goes to the older party?

 

Not sure. Someone well versed in these laws correct me!

 

Either way, I see your point.

 

This could be true...I'm not 100% sure, either. But if a 16 year old having sex with a 15 year old is statutory rape, I'd say about 50% of the country is probably guilty.

[nobody]

Which crime is more repugnant - pouring acid on live dogs, getting into a car and smashing into a family killing all of them, raping your babysitter, or having sex with your sister?

 

Only one of those so far has been blackballed by the NFL.

 

 

The guy only has sex with relatives - just make sure none live in Buffalo.

[John Cocktosten]

I have another idea: When you have a quality LT don't trade him unless you have a viable option.

Buddy is building through the draft so give it a rest!

[gobillsinytown]

This kid is a beast and is on a lot of other teams forms... He is a Div 2 OT prospect that many considered to have a 1st or 2nd grade athletically... search his name and you will find out why he wasn't drafted, but keep in mind it was one mistake 8 years ago and the fact that he hasn't made another one I think tells you something ... The bills should bring him in and take a flyer on him.

 

I am personally disgusted on 'how holyer than tho' ralf and this whole organization operates (even though 'new' still smells like old)... The only reason the bills and most other NFL teams didn't send someone to his pro date (only a scout form the 'cow'boys attended) or try and sign the kid is because they are too lazy to come up with ideas of how to spin this story (ie. the changed man story) to the buffalo media...

 

 

Just some thoughts maybe someone might take notice... last time i checked we need offensive line man we where pretty thin last year.

 

Not sure what your point is. Nobody drafted him, so does that mean the Bills are stupid for not taking him? Or are all 32 teams stupid? Sounds like all 32 teams know something we don't.

[Metal Man]

I really don't see how a lot of you guys can even argue about this as far as what he deserves.

 

We all make decisions every single day that affect our future. Sometimes it is just short term and not that important, and sometimes you do something that sticks with you the rest of your life. His act was definitely a huge mistake as it is ruining his potential for an NFL career, but this is no different than mistakes people are making every single day that seriously negatively affect their lives. I don't feel sorry for him at all because that is just the world we live in.

 

Is it fair that no one is taking a chance on him? Maybe not, but who can honestly argue that life is fair?

[DasNootz]

Sec. 25.02. PROHIBITED SEXUAL CONDUCT. (a) An individual commits an offense if he engages in sexual intercourse or deviate sexual intercourse with a person he knows to be, without regard to legitimacy:

(1) his ancestor or descendant by blood or adoption;

(2) his stepchild or stepparent, while the marriage creating that relationship exists;

(3) his parent's brother or sister of the whole or half blood;

(4) his brother or sister of the whole or half blood or by adoption; or

(5) the children of his brother or sister of the whole or half blood or by adoption.

(b) For purposes of this section:

(1) "Deviate sexual intercourse" means any contact between the genitals of one person and the mouth or anus of another person with intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person.

(2) "Sexual intercourse" means any penetration of the female sex organ by the male sex organ.

© An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree.

 

 

This is not to be confused with Statutory Rape. In Louisiana, if she were 15, and he were 17 or under, it would not be considered statutory rape. You must be within 2 years of age, if she is under 17.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

The incident happened over seven years ago when Washington was a teenager.

 

It was reportedly consensual, not rape.

 

It is also reported that he maintains a familial relationship with his sister.

 

It is a fact that he complied with all the requirements imposed on him by the courts.

 

Now his whole career is on hold because of this incident that happened that long ago?

 

In all of these cases, the first question is, does the punishment fit the crime?

 

Would it be a fair punishment if he were deprived of his chosen career for the rest of his life?

I wonder how many teams interviewed him and how those interviews went.

 

It's been a bit of a mild surprise that Washington wasn't drafted.

 

He was rated on most of the draft boards that we all saw.

 

That he has not signed anywhere is somewhat unexpected, IMO.

 

I think that rather than exhibiting moral courage, that the NFL teams which took him off their boards solely on the basis of this incident are showing a lack of moral courage. They are afraid to deal with the backlash and questions. They are acting cowardly.

 

Washington has paid his debt. He will live with the stigma forever. He will be reminded of this transgression by fans on a weekly basis if ever he plays in the NFL.

 

Is it hard for us to believe that he may be rehabilitated and could perhaps redeem himself?

 

If I owned a sports team, I would have interviewed and evaluated Washington and if he seemed like he was mentally stable, I would give him a chance to make my team.

Then you would have made it 1 of 32 instead of the 0 of 32. Teams can run their businesses how they see fit. My business has alot to do with the public so it's completely irrelevant if he is rehabilitated. It would be a bad business move.

[KD in CA]

Which crime is more repugnant - pouring acid on live dogs, getting into a car and smashing into a family killing all of them, raping your babysitter, or having sex with your sister?

 

Only one of those so far has been blackballed by the NFL.

 

 

Glad we have such a finely tuned moral compass in this country.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

But he was also a minor and only a year older than her. I'm pretty sure that's not statutory rape. This really isn't about the ages involved...when you were 16, weren't there 15 year olds you wanted to bone? Me too.

 

Here's my request...somebody on this board who thinks Washington is a bad guy, explain to me logically why having consensual sex with your sister is morally wrong and not just weird.

Uh if you can't understand a basic concept then no typing by the best psychologist is going to persuade you. And remind me not to let you watch my kids.

[starrymessenger]

Incest, and more specifically inbreeding, has been an accepted, even institutionalized, aspect of certain cultures considered civilized in many ways. But that is not our culture. The NFL is now image conscious to a fault and the values that are projected (or professed) are basically very conservative. Perhaps not surprising since the majority of football fans and indeed the public at large are also relatively conservative in their moral outlook, politics etc...

 

Quite possible that the NFL would be tolerant/forgiving of incidents that might very well be worse than what Robinson did. And as a philosophical matter I'm sure many people subscribe to confession and remission of sin, forgiveness, rehabilitation - whatever you chose to call it. Doesn't alter the fact that his blemish is a colossal cultural taboo that will inevitably provoke in the public feelings of disgust and contempt. The NFL seems not even to have come to grips with sexual behavior that is lawful i.e. homosexuality, because clearly it remains viscerally distasteful to a majority of people and doesn'y jive with our image a football, football players and football fans.

 

It may be wrong or unfortunate but I wouldn't be surprised if this guy never makes it on a NFL roster. Who needs the grief. Its hard enough to win in the NFL. Last thing we need is a distraction like this in our lockerroom.

[starrymessenger]

Correction: "Washington" not "Robinson".

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Uh if you can't understand a basic concept then no typing by the best psychologist is going to persuade you. And remind me not to let you watch my kids.

 

Ok, if it's such a basic concept, just explain it to the best of your ability. Why is consensual incest morally wrong?

 

By the way, your above post is classic ad hominem. You can't think of something relevant to say, so you just try to degrade the person you're debating.

 

I personally would never have sex with my sister because of my cultural conditioning...I find the idea gross. But why would it be morally wrong?

[BuffaloBill]

The real issue here is that nob ody posting here knows the full story with the kid. Perhaps the charge is only one issue among many that are keeping teams away. It seems to me that if every NFLK team is shying away there is more to the story than a 16 year old kid making a really bad judgement call.

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

Which crime is more repugnant - pouring acid on live dogs, getting into a car and smashing into a family killing all of them, raping your babysitter, or having sex with your sister?

 

Only one of those so far has been blackballed by the NFL.

 

I like this post.

 

I also find it interesting that the NFL has (seemingly) decided to draw a line in the sand over this. Really? Over Tony Washington? All the other thugs in this league, who commit crimes while playing for a team are ok...but this kid (who made beyond a gross error in judgement at 16) is an untouchable? I don't get it really.

 

Not to mention, he has served his time on this matter (which many of you brought up about Michael Vick), but yet this kid is beyond human trash? I just don't get it.

[BuffaloBill]

The real issue here is that nobody posting here knows the full story with the kid. Perhaps the charge is only one issue among many that are keeping teams away. It seems to me that if every NFL team is shying away there is more to the story than a 16 year old kid making a really bad judgement call.

[KD in CA]

The real issue here is that nobody posting here knows the full story with the kid. Perhaps the charge is only one issue among many that are keeping teams away. It seems to me that if every NFL team is shying away there is more to the story than a 16 year old kid making a really bad judgment call.

 

I don't. I think others in this thread have figured it out perfectly. This kid is being black balled because incest is one of the very few remaining taboos in our society (that and smoking). If he had forcibly raped a classmate when he was 16, I have zero doubt he would be on an NFL roster today. But while our society falls all over itself to give criminals a "second chance" no matter how vile their crimes, incest remains so unspeakable that people would prefer to deal with a rapist. Kinda screwed up, isn't it?

 

Were his and his sister's actions sick and gross? They are to me. Did they both need some serious counseling? Probably. Should he be branded as a lifetime sex predator and blackballed from football for a consensual act with his sister who was less than a year apart in age (spare me the 'statutory rape' claims) when they were 16/15 years old? Only if you think what he did was worse than adults committing domestic violence, assault, sexual assault, vehicular homicide, etc.

 

The league has blackballed this kid to protect their image, period.

[DanInUticaTampa]

The real issue here is that nobody posting here knows the full story with the kid. Perhaps the charge is only one issue among many that are keeping teams away. It seems to me that if every NFL team is shying away there is more to the story than a 16 year old kid making a really bad judgement call.

 

Well, since this happened a long time ago and nothing else has happened since, or made the news. I assume he hasnt caused any trouble.... I don't see any other issues unless they happened to him when he was like 15, which is ridiculous when players are doing much worse things as adults. If he had any legal trouble, the media would have found it. And any other social issues would have came out as well, since the national sports media is scrutinizing the whole thing.

[starrymessenger]

There is a difference between what Washington did (that will apparently not be forgiven) and the other perhaps more reprehensible things that others do (and that are forgiven).

Whether it be DUI, vehicular homocide, manslaughter, even perhaps murder, the thought often comes to mind "There, but for the grace of God, go I". This permits us to empathize with the offender and explains our readiness to forgive. In a sense we are forgiving ourselves, which is easier to do than to forgive others for things that we would never have done.

When it comes to Washington, fewer of us would be able to empathize with the offender because we know we would never go there.

[Ozymandius]

This thread is worthless without pics.

[KD in CA]

This thread is worthless without pics.

 

Here you go. Enjoy.

[Ozymandius]

Here you go. Enjoy.

 

If that's his sister then I can't sympathize with this a-hole at all!

[Thurman#1]

Ok, if it's such a basic concept, just explain it to the best of your ability. Why is consensual incest morally wrong?

 

By the way, your above post is classic ad hominem. You can't think of something relevant to say, so you just try to degrade the person you're debating.

 

I personally would never have sex with my sister because of my cultural conditioning...I find the idea gross. But why would it be morally wrong?

 

 

 

Because it's been proven to harm the ability of participants to form mature love relationships with non-relatives.

 

Because there is a heightened risk of genetic diseases in children of these relationships.

 

For two.

[Thurman#1]

Mutual consent?? An act of passion??---holy sh**T!!!

 

How do you know this?? His sister consented to having her BIG bro have sex with her when she was 15 (and it started and ended right there?)? You must come from "Tony"'s home town!

 

You believe BR's first accuser when it is clear that she perpetrated a fraud against the state where she filed charges and is in the process of doing the same in civil court? And you believe her? It is clear you have no familiarity with the facts of that case.

 

You arer free to believe what you want, but you can't attempt to convince others to agree with you if you chose ignore what disturbs your view of reality.

 

 

 

Like, mellow out, dude. What he said was all from the news accounts. That's why he knows it. They have a good non-sexual relationship to this day. That's why he knows it.

 

Do some research before you go off. Yeah, it's something that makes us all feel queasy, but you still need to do research before you accuse a guy of making stuff up. He didn't.

 

 

Since nobody has dealt with the facts in this thread, here is a place to find a few:

 

http://www.sportsfanlive.com/sflreports/en...usive_lineman_s

 

A few excerpts:

 

"In May 2003, Washington was convicted of having sex with a relative that multiple NFL and college sources say was his 15-year old biological sister. The act was consensual, according to his college coaches and two NFL scouts, who spoke to him about the incident. The sister does not wish to speak publicly on the case, according to Washington’s agent, who added that the siblings are now on good terms and talk often. "

 

--

 

"... Everything else, including his home, was destroyed by Hurricane Katrina.

 

“'Katrina was a total disruption of his life and his high school career,' said Sartain, a coaching veteran of 26 years and father of two, who now heads up the football program at East Texas Baptist University. "

 

--

 

"The product of what Sartain calls a 'dysfunctional' family, Washington arrived in Athens, Texas, with emotional needs that had long been neglected. 'I don’t want to say he was emotionally "crippled," but with that traumatic time in his life, he skipped a phase, so to speak, in his emotional development,' the coach said."

 

--

 

“'The biggest concern I had was, "Is he going to be a threat to the community?"’ Thomsen said.

 

"After a thorough investigation, the school agreed to accept him. 'Even the chief of police thought Tony was a low risk,' Thomsen said. "

 

--

 

I'm not going to switch all the quotation marks on this next bit, I'll just paste it it. Sorry ...:

 

“I don’t want to cry ‘victim’ and he never has, per se, but I really believe that he was a 16-year-old victim of his own environment,” Sartain said. “It’s unfortunate that the counsel that he got at the time led him to have this label on him the rest of his life.”

 

It’s a label he couldn’t escape in his hometown of New Orleans, where as a high school student, he bagged groceries at Save-a-Lot until 5 a.m., went directly to school, then practice, then back to work. He couldn’t escape it when he came to Athens, Texas, and had his name printed in the local newspaper as part of the required community notification of his status.

 

But if he truly wanted to run from his past, he would have given up long ago. Instead, he’s choosing to face it, something Sartain hopes people will appreciate.

 

“I find it hard to believe that people cannot realize the resolve, the perseverance, the character and determination that this young man has had to get where he is,” Sartain said.

 

Thomsen points to the fact that his former player has had no run-ins with the law since his offense seven years ago.

 

“I have no fear in my mind of anything like that happening with Tony again,” Thomsen said. “I wouldn’t have brought him here if I had that fear. And I have no reservations about anything like that happening again in his future.”

 

The fact that the offense was committed as a juvenile means the odds are in his favor. According to a report published by the National Center on Sexual Behavior of Youth, adolescent sex offenders have a 5 percent to 14 percent chance of sexual re-offenses.

 

Dr. Fred Berlin, Associate Professor of the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, and founder of the Sexual Disorders Clinic, believes that unlike adult offenders, juveniles are “highly treatable” and “rarely go on to become adult offenders.”

 

 

--

 

 

And:

 

“I’m not so much concerned with the incident. It happened seven years ago,” the scout said. “But I am concerned with his maturity level. He’s going to walk into an NFL locker room where it’s tough enough being a rookie, but this – this takes it to a whole new level. And I worry about how the media in whatever market his team is in is going to take this.”

 

Thomsen disagrees with the assessment that his former player is “immature,” saying he was a model citizen, and “never had any off-the-field incident or any problems whatsoever” at Abilene Christian.

 

Rather than preparing for the Combine at one of the trendy high-end training facilities, Washington chose to work out privately with former Ohio State linebacker Anthony Schlegal, who was the campus president for the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

 

“He’s surrounding himself with good people,” Thomsen said. “He wants to succeed. And that’s what he needs.”

 

Washington’s choice of agent is also telling. Vann McElroy is not only a former NFL safety who won a Super Bowl with the Raiders, but he is also the son of a pastor.

 

“We didn’t put people like Anthony Schlegel in Tony’s life,” McElroy told SportsFanLive.com. “He reached out to them. He chose to go to Abilene Christian. To me that says a lot.”

 

--

 

 

It's a good long interesting article. And after you read it, you won't be guessing about what happened.

[Thurman#1]

The real issue here is that nob ody posting here knows the full story with the kid. Perhaps the charge is only one issue among many that are keeping teams away. It seems to me that if every NFLK team is shying away there is more to the story than a 16 year old kid making a really bad judgement call.

 

 

 

Or perhaps not. Perhaps you're guessing about that without any factual basis whatsoever, when incest charges are plenty to give people pause.

 

For the folks using the word "blackballed," you think everyone got together on this? Please. This is a case of 32 organizations all either deciding negatively or needing more time and thought to make a decision.

[Adam]

This kid is a beast and is on a lot of other teams forms... He is a Div 2 OT prospect that many considered to have a 1st or 2nd grade athletically... search his name and you will find out why he wasn't drafted, but keep in mind it was one mistake 8 years ago and the fact that he hasn't made another one I think tells you something ... The bills should bring him in and take a flyer on him.

 

I am personally disgusted on 'how holyer than tho' ralf and this whole organization operates (even though 'new' still smells like old)... The only reason the bills and most other NFL teams didn't send someone to his pro date (only a scout form the 'cow'boys attended) or try and sign the kid is because they are too lazy to come up with ideas of how to spin this story (ie. the changed man story) to the buffalo media...

 

 

Just some thoughts maybe someone might take notice... last time i checked we need offensive line man we where pretty thin last year.

How much game film of him have you evaluated to make this statement? I am sure it is more than our coaching staff and front office have seen......

[Mr. WEO]

Like, mellow out, dude. What he said was all from the news accounts. That's why he knows it. They have a good non-sexual relationship to this day. That's why he knows it.

 

Do some research before you go off. Yeah, it's something that makes us all feel queasy, but you still need to do research before you accuse a guy of making stuff up. He didn't.

 

 

Since nobody has dealt with the facts in this thread, here is a place to find a few:

 

http://www.sportsfanlive.com/sflreports/en...usive_lineman_s

 

A few excerpts:

 

"In May 2003, Washington was convicted of having sex with a relative that multiple NFL and college sources say was his 15-year old biological sister. The act was consensual, according to his college coaches and two NFL scouts, who spoke to him about the incident. The sister does not wish to speak publicly on the case, according to Washington’s agent, who added that the siblings are now on good terms and talk often. "

 

--

 

"... Everything else, including his home, was destroyed by Hurricane Katrina.

 

“'Katrina was a total disruption of his life and his high school career,' said Sartain, a coaching veteran of 26 years and father of two, who now heads up the football program at East Texas Baptist University. "

 

--

 

"The product of what Sartain calls a 'dysfunctional' family, Washington arrived in Athens, Texas, with emotional needs that had long been neglected. 'I don’t want to say he was emotionally "crippled," but with that traumatic time in his life, he skipped a phase, so to speak, in his emotional development,' the coach said."

 

--

 

“'The biggest concern I had was, "Is he going to be a threat to the community?"’ Thomsen said.

 

"After a thorough investigation, the school agreed to accept him. 'Even the chief of police thought Tony was a low risk,' Thomsen said. "

 

--

 

I'm not going to switch all the quotation marks on this next bit, I'll just paste it it. Sorry ...:

 

“I don’t want to cry ‘victim’ and he never has, per se, but I really believe that he was a 16-year-old victim of his own environment,” Sartain said. “It’s unfortunate that the counsel that he got at the time led him to have this label on him the rest of his life.”

 

It’s a label he couldn’t escape in his hometown of New Orleans, where as a high school student, he bagged groceries at Save-a-Lot until 5 a.m., went directly to school, then practice, then back to work. He couldn’t escape it when he came to Athens, Texas, and had his name printed in the local newspaper as part of the required community notification of his status.

 

But if he truly wanted to run from his past, he would have given up long ago. Instead, he’s choosing to face it, something Sartain hopes people will appreciate.

 

“I find it hard to believe that people cannot realize the resolve, the perseverance, the character and determination that this young man has had to get where he is,” Sartain said.

 

Thomsen points to the fact that his former player has had no run-ins with the law since his offense seven years ago.

 

“I have no fear in my mind of anything like that happening with Tony again,” Thomsen said. “I wouldn’t have brought him here if I had that fear. And I have no reservations about anything like that happening again in his future.”

 

The fact that the offense was committed as a juvenile means the odds are in his favor. According to a report published by the National Center on Sexual Behavior of Youth, adolescent sex offenders have a 5 percent to 14 percent chance of sexual re-offenses.

 

Dr. Fred Berlin, Associate Professor of the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, and founder of the Sexual Disorders Clinic, believes that unlike adult offenders, juveniles are “highly treatable” and “rarely go on to become adult offenders.”

 

 

--

 

 

And:

 

“I’m not so much concerned with the incident. It happened seven years ago,” the scout said. “But I am concerned with his maturity level. He’s going to walk into an NFL locker room where it’s tough enough being a rookie, but this – this takes it to a whole new level. And I worry about how the media in whatever market his team is in is going to take this.”

 

Thomsen disagrees with the assessment that his former player is “immature,” saying he was a model citizen, and “never had any off-the-field incident or any problems whatsoever” at Abilene Christian.

 

Rather than preparing for the Combine at one of the trendy high-end training facilities, Washington chose to work out privately with former Ohio State linebacker Anthony Schlegal, who was the campus president for the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

 

“He’s surrounding himself with good people,” Thomsen said. “He wants to succeed. And that’s what he needs.”

 

Washington’s choice of agent is also telling. Vann McElroy is not only a former NFL safety who won a Super Bowl with the Raiders, but he is also the son of a pastor.

 

“We didn’t put people like Anthony Schlegel in Tony’s life,” McElroy told SportsFanLive.com. “He reached out to them. He chose to go to Abilene Christian. To me that says a lot.”

 

--

 

 

It's a good long interesting article. And after you read it, you won't be guessing about what happened.

 

I read that article when someone here posted it weeks ago. It further erodes your argument---if you read it closely, you would NEVER have used it to respond to my post. In fact the only fact is contained in the first sentence.

 

The ONLY claim published in that "fact filled" article that the sex was "consensual" was according to his college coaches and two NFL scouts, who spoke to him about the incident. in fact, the only credible claim can come from the victim--his sister and as your reference CLEARLY states: "The sister does not wish to speak publicly on the case" (regardless of what their relationship is today).

 

His coach and a few scouts tell us all about the events and that's enough for you??

 

Look, I never said the guy made it up----just that is ridiculous for you, me, or coaches and scouts (who have vested interests in this kid's success as a football player) to claim we know that this was "passionate, consensual" incest. We only know what the perp has told us. You can believe him or not--but you can't state it as fact.

 

That was kind of my point. You should really read your references before you post them in your defense.

 

And this talk of "blackballing" is nonsense. So far, all 32 teams have clearly concluded that he just isn't that good a prospect to counter the bad publicity. They are free to come to that conclusion indepently. To claim otherwise is nuts.

[cantankerous]

The guy is trying to get his s**t together, if you read his story. I don't understand why a team won't take a flyer on him.

 

 

Because he's a f-ckin sicko that had sex with his SISTER.

[nodnarb]

You mean you could NOT care less.

 

 

[rmunschauer]

How much game film of him have you evaluated to make this statement? I am sure it is more than our coaching staff and front office have seen......

 

who knows how much film they have watched on him... the only reason I have ever herd of the school is from tony's performance at the combine...

 

After I watched him in the drills I then went back and tried to get any film available (obviously since I am not a pro scout and am just a football geek I didn't request film from the school) and the only stuff I could find was a few highlight reels from games his school played in the 2009 and 2008 campaigns on youtube....

 

That being said he looks dominating against his D2 opponents...

[RealityCheck]

No NFL team drafted Tony Washington, who cares?

[Celtic_soulja]

It was not Tony that got "blackballed" hehehehe...and they are both sick and twisted individuals...so I am SURE we can find another OT that is worth our time...OH THERE HE IS ... Good day Mr. Wang

[USABuffaloFan]

Ok, if it's such a basic concept, just explain it to the best of your ability. Why is consensual incest morally wrong?

 

By the way, your above post is classic ad hominem. You can't think of something relevant to say, so you just try to degrade the person you're debating.

 

I personally would never have sex with my sister because of my cultural conditioning...I find the idea gross. But why would it be morally wrong?

 

The Bible's old testament is slewn with incest and is the bases of Adam and Eve's love. The biggest reason incest is band in modern days is because of DNA issues and birth defects. If you ever been to middle Iowa and States like that you can see for yourself what can happen. The Amish people have many malformations, kissing cousins probably don't matter. Some people don't have alot of choices around them, in small populations under 100. They may never have left their towns. They are truely uneducated!!

 

When I was in college in the middle 80's porn movies like Taboo were watched by many people in the college dorms. I would bet many of you have seen scenes and didn't turn it off. Does that mean people wish to have sex with their family members, No. We all know right from wrong and can make conscience choices not to do those type of things. Often jokes have been told about siblings "playing doctor" with one another. I can tell you one thing, I didn't learn about sex in school or by my parents. It was from magazines and porn movies as a young adult 13-16. No one explain to me during puberity what I was dealing with as a 13-16 year old. I went to detention as a 14 year old student in middle school because I couldn't go to the front of the classroom to do a speech due to a untimely erection. The teacher thought I was defying her, I wanted her to touch me and I didn't even understand why! Timing is everything people.

 

Our society does a terrible job dealing with sexuality with individuals coming of age. We rarely talk or let them know what is right or wrong. As a kid, you know something is wrong or up with what is happening but you don't really know why. Proper education takes away mistakes being made by younger individuals. How do you really properly teach sexuality. Telling kids by anatomy drawings that babies are birthed in this manner just raise the intrigue of the subject to teens. They will experiment if they don't truely understand. We all have some skeletons in our closets from these years. You will never admit it and really should never talk about, they are very private. If you got to be an adult with no other real issue, Thank God for that. Many people have some really bad things in their closet. Feel sorry and move on. Never accept adults doing the wrong things, they should know better but be careful blaming teens for their issues.

 

There is no excuse for parents having sex with their kids or family members. I do feel for young family members like Tony Washington and his sister. They may not really know what they were doing, they knew it was wrong but how wrong could really be debated. If they were uneducated then put in very wrong circumstances, something could happen that shouldn't. This is not rape but very wrong morally today. They probably really didn't understand this concept.This can't be condoned but as adults we understand how complicated sex really is. Many adults get it all wrong, look at Ben R. To stigmitized a 15 and 16 year old soley because of the act is really wrong. We can't possibly understand what happened.

 

As long as those two got counseling, did their punishment and truely understand why that can't happen so when they have kids it doesn't repeat, we need to forgive. This isn't criminal, it is on the line of fornication and homosexuality with teens. If they understand why it was wrong and never behave that way again, I say it is a private matter and we don't need to react as fans. I wouldn't want my teen years to be looked at and decided who I am as a adult. This man and family needs to move on and we are very wrong by not letting him do this. Maybe if he made a decent paycheck he could take up the cause to educate younger kids the mistakes not to make. Be careful how you judge this man and his family.

[Steely Dan]

Not sure what your point is. Nobody drafted him, so does that mean the Bills are stupid for not taking him? Or are all 32 teams stupid? Sounds like all 32 teams know something we don't.

 

That can't possibly be.

 

It's not that he was young and didn't know any better it's a biological gross out. Just talking about this gives me the willies. In my situation It would take a lot to get over this gross out factor.

[CarolinaBill]

I read that article when someone here posted it weeks ago. It further erodes your argument---if you read it closely, you would NEVER have used it to respond to my post. In fact the only fact is contained in the first sentence.

 

The ONLY claim published in that "fact filled" article that the sex was "consensual" was according to his college coaches and two NFL scouts, who spoke to him about the incident. in fact, the only credible claim can come from the victim--his sister and as your reference CLEARLY states: "The sister does not wish to speak publicly on the case" (regardless of what their relationship is today).

 

His coach and a few scouts tell us all about the events and that's enough for you??

 

Look, I never said the guy made it up----just that is ridiculous for you, me, or coaches and scouts (who have vested interests in this kid's success as a football player) to claim we know that this was "passionate, consensual" incest. We only know what the perp has told us. You can believe him or not--but you can't state it as fact.

 

That was kind of my point. You should really read your references before you post them in your defense.

 

And this talk of "blackballing" is nonsense. So far, all 32 teams have clearly concluded that he just isn't that good a prospect to counter the bad publicity. They are free to come to that conclusion indepently. To claim otherwise is nuts.

no, he's been blackballed by goodell, it's been confirmed.