Reaching in the draft

[PromoTheRobot]

As if the endless mock drafts weren't maddening enough, people also drone on about reaching for players in the draft. Now I can understand drafting a player projected to go in the 6th round, but if a player is a low first-rounder, and you want him, and you pick #9, and he isn't going to be there when your next pick comes around, how is it considered a reach if you grab him? And furthermore, if a player helps you win, who cares if you reached for him? I swear, this whole reach issue is the most meaningless, contrived, drama-for-drama's sake, invention since the mock draft.

 

Tell me why I'm wrong.

 

PTR

[WVUFootball29]

Because the talking heads say so and people believe the media. In a perfect world, no one is considered a reach if you are getting the right player for your team and you believe that he fits your system better than the other options on the board.

[PromoTheRobot]

Because the talking heads say so and people believe the media. In a perfect world, no one is considered a reach if you are getting the right player for your team and you believe that he fits your system better than the other options on the board.

Just as I thought.

 

PTR

[nemhoff]

It was said that the Bills "reached" for Whitner, McCargo, and Losman in recent years. The wrong pick at the wrong time or spending too much to move back up and pick in the later part of the first round.

 

They were reaches and we have sort of seen how that panned out.

[1billsfan]

As if the endless mock drafts weren't maddening enough, people also drone on about reaching for players in the draft. Now I can understand drafting a player projected to go in the 6th round, but if a player is a low first-rounder, and you want him, and you pick #9, and he isn't going to be there when your next pick comes around, how is it considered a reach if you grab him? And furthermore, if a player helps you win, who cares if you reached for him? I swear, this whole reach issue is the most meaningless, contrived, drama-for-drama's sake, invention since the mock draft.

 

Tell me why I'm wrong.

 

PTR

 

Donte Whitner. He was a major reach for the Bills when they should have drafted Ngata who's player rating was much higher and right around where they were picking.

[26CornerBlitz]

As if the endless mock drafts weren't maddening enough, people also drone on about reaching for players in the draft. Now I can understand drafting a player projected to go in the 6th round, but if a player is a low first-rounder, and you want him, and you pick #9, and he isn't going to be there when your next pick comes around, how is it considered a reach if you grab him? And furthermore, if a player helps you win, who cares if you reached for him? I swear, this whole reach issue is the most meaningless, contrived, drama-for-drama's sake, invention since the mock draft.

 

Tell me why I'm wrong.

 

PTR

 

In a scenario where you like a player but project that he'll be available at a later pick, a trade down should be done if possible to get the most of a any particular draft year. An example of what I mean is 2001 when the Bills wanted Nate Clements. The held the 14th pick, but traded down to 21 and still got him while getting an extra pick. That's the "right way" to game the draft.

[Lurker]

Reaches are only reaches when the player doesn't live up to expectations. If he does, then it's a shrewd move...

[dailar]

It was said that the Bills "reached" for Whitner, McCargo, and Losman in recent years. The wrong pick at the wrong time or spending too much to move back up and pick in the later part of the first round.

 

They were reaches and we have sort of seen how that panned out.

 

 

Surely they are only reaches if they dont live up to expectation?!?! If you had a poll on here after the draft last year people would have said Byrd was a reach! Its all relative.

[Wizard]

Reaches are only reaches when the player doesn't live up to expectations. If he does, then it's a shrewd move...

 

Couldn't have said it better. A player is a reach when the player doesn't perform.

[dailar]

Reaches are only reaches when the player doesn't live up to expectations. If he does, then it's a shrewd move...

 

Beat me to it!

[bills in va]

When you reach you lose value. It would be like trading down without getting compensation for it. It has nothing to do with talking heads, just common sense business. You have to have several equal valued preferences in each round, so you don't reach but get good value. You can still fill positions of need w/o reaching and losing value.

Problem with the bills is they have reached and missed in recent years. If a pick can't play in the NFL it doesn't matter if you reach or think you're getting good value. Our scouting dept. has sucked the past 10 years with a few exceptions. A monkey could hit on as many picks as the Bills recently. I do however like our draft last year with the exception of "Maybe", who was a reach and a possible miss.

[Deep2Moulds46]

Chris Johnson was considered a reach at the end of the first round.

 

Just sayin

[Bob in STL]

As if the endless mock drafts weren't maddening enough, people also drone on about reaching for players in the draft. Now I can understand drafting a player projected to go in the 6th round, but if a player is a low first-rounder, and you want him, and you pick #9, and he isn't going to be there when your next pick comes around, how is it considered a reach if you grab him? And furthermore, if a player helps you win, who cares if you reached for him? I swear, this whole reach issue is the most meaningless, contrived, drama-for-drama's sake, invention since the mock draft.

 

Tell me why I'm wrong.

 

PTR

 

 

I would not call your scenario a reach either, even thought the Talking Heads do. Soem of the moves al Davis has made have been surprising reaches.

 

I call the trade ups for McCargo and Losman to be reaches ... both players could have been gone at our next pick but we gave up a lot to pick them were we did.

[Lurker]

I do however like our draft last year with the exception of "Maybe", who was a reach and a possible miss.

Thanks for proving the point. Maybin was rated mid-round 1 pick by a number of draft publications/final mocks.

 

PFW--2009 Draft Value Chart

 

ESPN mock

 

SI mock

[PromoTheRobot]

It was said that the Bills "reached" for Whitner, McCargo, and Losman in recent years. The wrong pick at the wrong time or spending too much to move back up and pick in the later part of the first round.

 

They were reaches and we have sort of seen how that panned out.

 

If the player sucks, does it matter where you take him? Do you feel better if he went in the 2nd or 3rd round? Either way it was a bad pick. It has nothing to do with reaching.

 

 

Donte Whitner. He was a major reach for the Bills when they should have drafted Ngata who's player rating was much higher and right around where they were picking.

 

Again...wrong player picked...not a reach.

 

In a scenario where you like a player but project that he'll be available at a later pick, a trade down should be done if possible to get the most of a any particular draft year. An example of what I mean is 2001 when the Bills wanted Nate Clements. The held the 14th pick, but traded down to 21 and still got him while getting an extra pick. That's the "right way" to game the draft.

 

But you have to find a partner to trade down with, don't you? If no one wants to make a deal, then are you forced to give more away, all in the name of "draft value"??? Does this sound as retarded to you as it does to me?

 

 

Reaches are only reaches when the player doesn't live up to expectations. If he does, then it's a shrewd move...

 

Again, Donte Whitner would be just as disappointing as a 3rd rounder as a first rounder.

 

When you reach you lose value. It would be like trading down without getting compensation for it. It has nothing to do with talking heads, just common sense business. You have to have several equal valued preferences in each round, so you don't reach but get good value. You can still fill positions of need w/o reaching and losing value.

Problem with the bills is they have reached and missed in recent years. If a pick can't play in the NFL it doesn't matter if you reach or think you're getting good value. Our scouting dept. has sucked the past 10 years with a few exceptions. A monkey could hit on as many picks as the Bills recently. I do however like our draft last year with the exception of "Maybe", who was a reach and a possible miss.

 

You're not selling tires, you're running a football team. Draft Value is an artificial concept that has no bearing on performance. You either pick players who make you a winner or not. Where they were drafted stops meaning anything one day after the draft.

 

PTR

[MikeSpeed]

My definition of a reach: Selecting a player at more than one spot above the next team that you believe will want to select him. Therefore if we select Clausen at 9 but the next team that we believe would want him isn't selecting until 20 then we reached. We should have tried to trade down as far as possible (preferably to 19 using the example) to gain more picks, and still get the guy we want. I believe you can always find a trading partner. It's just a matter of what compensation you are willing to except. Of coarse this is a high risk poker game but that's what makes the draft fun.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

I think the only issue of relevance, for ralph that is, if I take the 28th best player in draft and pay him #9 money maybe ya overpaid for the talent. If we had a rookie cap than none of this would matter draft whomever you think is the guy ya want. Now if you could trade #9 away for #28 still get your guy and get more picks than its a reach that matters to talent level of your team.

 

Personally all I care about is does the damn guy want to sign early, fill a major hole on your team and will help us Win cause I could care if we picked them 9 and they really only should get #19 money etc. Whats a few hundred thousand or another mill to a Billionaire owner

[stinky finger]

Reaches are only reaches when the player doesn't live up to expectations. If he does, then it's a shrewd move...

I thought they were refered to as "busts".

[DrDawkinstein]

Reaches are only reaches when the player doesn't live up to expectations. If he does, then it's a shrewd move...

 

bingo!!

[PromoTheRobot]

My definition of a reach: Selecting a player at more than one spot above the next team that you believe will want to select him. Therefore if we select Clausen at 9 but the next team that we believe would want him isn't selecting until 20 then we reached. We should have tried to trade down as far as possible (preferably to 19 using the example) to gain more picks, and still get the guy we want. I believe you can always find a trading partner. It's just a matter of what compensation you are willing to except. Of coarse this is a high risk poker game but that's what makes the draft fun.

If you give away too much to make that deal aren't you ruining your draft? That is just effin' crazy. Also you all act like draft order is carved in stone somewhere. Just because you think Claussen will be there at 20 doesn't make it a fact.

 

PTR