To Tackle or Not To Tackle

[Wizard]

Todd McShay was on ESPN radio today talking about how odd the OT's are in this draft and how they are ranked.

 

He mentioned that people he has talked to say Trent Williams is the most talented OT in this draft, but he does have a history of weight issues and isn't very dedicated (stays up late) and doesn't play with fire. He said that Davis is extremely talented, but all he has heard from coaches, and people in the industry is that he isn't a hard worker. He never worked hard at Rutgers and many football people think this personality may translate to the NFL.

 

McShay also said that Okung is solid but nothing spectacular. He can play both sides and has the character and work ethic to show no concerns for his ability to be solid in the NFL. He said Bulaga has been well-coached, but he is a solid RT in this league that should be slotted at the end of the 1st round or early 2nd. But, OT is such a critical position that teams will naturally reach for such a coveted position.

 

Campbell was also listed as an unknown. He's built perfectly to be a LT and had great workouts, but he is very raw, but he has the size, arm length, and body that intrigues personnel people.

According to McShay...

 

Talent:

1. Trent Williams

2. Anthony Davis

3. Russell Okung

4. Bryan Bulaga

 

Stability or Lack of Concerns

1. Okung

2. Bulaga

3. Williams

4. Davis

 

Does this change your opinion about the 1st round pick or the OT's?

[Deep2Moulds46]

I wouldn't take any of them. Sorry, if I'm spending a top 10 pick on a player, I want either a nearly finished product, or a guy with ridiculous upside.

 

I don't care how bad we need a tackle, taking one of these guys is a wasted pick in my opinion, especially when you can get a comparible talent in round 2.

[Bronc24]

I've said it before and will say it again: McShay is an idiot.

[H2o]

It's Todd McShay, what do you really expect?

[dubs]

First, I would try to get Gathier from the Ravens. He's worth the second round pick. However, I'd try to pry him away for some other combination first, maybe a third this year and a third next year. Or a third this year and maybe Lynch. If that doesn't work, then give them the second this year.

 

Then, I would attempt to trade down if one of the following two scenarios were presented to the Bills. If 1 of the top 4 OTs are left or if Clausen is still on the board. Basically try to switch slots in the first and pick up that second we gave away. Then, assuming we are somewhere in the middle of the first round, try to get either a NT or someone to shore up the defensive front 7. Best available. If we can't trade down, take a look at Dan Williams or Clausen.

 

Also, i wouldn't be opposed to trading a 5th rounder for Jason Campbell. Throw him in the the mix, low risk move.

[Thoner7]

Helen Keller would make a better scout than Tan McShay.

 

Trent Williams the best in the draft? Please. Same goes for Davis. I doubt either becomes an above average LT. Bulaga at least has a chance - the only reason he seems like a RT is because he is such a great run blocker.

 

And Okung is extremely good pass blocker.

[OldTimer1960]

I wouldn't take any of them. Sorry, if I'm spending a top 10 pick on a player, I want either a nearly finished product, or a guy with ridiculous upside.

 

I don't care how bad we need a tackle, taking one of these guys is a wasted pick in my opinion, especially when you can get a comparible talent in round 2.

 

I was with you up until you said they could get a comparable talent at OT in the 2nd. I am sorry, but I don't see it.

Who do you see that has a chance to be a good starting LT in round 2? I don't think Ducasse is a LT (or even RT) and

I think Saffold will be gone by pick 41.

[buffaloaggie]

You lost me at "McShay's Latest Opinion". It's truly worthless. He must be a nephew to one of the higher up's at ESPN.

 

Someone added this to Wikipedia. I guess no one has noticed for six days now.

 

McShay wikipedia

 

On April 7, 2010, McShay "outed" himself in an interview with The Advocate, noting that, "it feels good that the truth is out there."

[The Jokeman]

I was with you up until you said they could get a comparable talent at OT in the 2nd. I am sorry, but I don't see it.

Who do you see that has a chance to be a good starting LT in round 2? I don't think Ducasse is a LT (or even RT) and

I think Saffold will be gone by pick 41.

I'm guessing he might be referencing Bruce Campbell, as PFW just reported he could slide to Round 2. Yet with 17 starts under his belt I'm leary of taking him no matter how athletic he showed at the combine. To me if we don't land Okung, Williams or Bulaga with pick #9 then the debate starts. The debate being do we take Clausen, Dez Bryant, CJ Spiller or trade down. I'd favor trading down as if we don't take Clausen at #9 he could slide much like Aaron Rodgers and Brady Quinn did. As I don't mind moving down to pick to pick 15-20 and take Clausen there or Anthony Davis.

[Lurker]

Does this change your opinion about the 1st round pick or the OT's?

Nope. McShay's opinions are based on whomever whispered to him last. He's got no ability to judge talent on his own...

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I agree that Todd McShay is not a particularly good talent evaluator.

 

But in his defense, we've all read the same reservations and criticisms of all the top tackle projects. He is correct in one sense, that the most talented tackles have motivation/character questions and that the most motivated tackles have limited talent. None of this year's tackles, like last year, appear to be cornerstone, franchise tackles.

 

Last year I posted two stories that stated that the 2009 draft was not a great year for offensive tackles. Some good prospects yes, but no Jonathan Ogdens, no Tony Bosellis, no Orlando Paces, no Walter Joneses.

 

Here are the top tackles from last year's draft and the grades given to them by Scouts Inc.

 

Jason Smith 97

Eugene Monroe 96

Andre Smith 95

Michael Oher 92

 

Oher outperformed the three tackles taken before him. He excelled on the right side but was mediocre on the left side. The other three were mild disappointments.

 

Here are the top tackles from this year's draft and the grades given to them by Scouts Inc.

 

Russell Okung 96

Brian Bulaga 95

Trent Williams 94

Anthony Davis 92

 

We've gone over this ad naseum but the point remains: there are many here who are dogmatic in their belief that we must draft an OT with our pick at #9.

 

And if the Bills were to do so, there's a very good chance that they would be making another first round draft mistake. So to those who are stubborn in their conviction that the Bills must draft a tackle at #9, I would say, be careful what you wish for.

[purple haze]

I agree that Todd McShay is not a particularly good talent evaluator. We've gone over this ad naseum but the point remains: there are many here who are dogmatic in their belief that we must draft an OT with our pick at #9.

 

And if the Bills were to do so, there's a very good chance that they would be making another first round draft mistake. So to those who are stubborn in their conviction that the Bills must draft a tackle at #9, I would say, be careful what you wish for.

 

Agreed. Bills need value at 9. If one the top 3 OT's are available, fine. But if not, I would rather take high impact, i.e. Spiller if he's there. Especially if they trade Lynch.

[Thurman#1]

I don't care how bad we need a tackle, taking one of these guys is a wasted pick in my opinion, especially when you can get a comparible talent in round 2.

 

 

But you CAN'T get a comparable talent in round 2. If there were comparable talents, they would also be predicted to go in Round 1 in the top ten. The round 2 guys aren't as good. That's why they will go in Round 2.

[Thurman#1]

First, I would try to get Gathier from the Ravens. He's worth the second round pick. However, I'd try to pry him away for some other combination first, maybe a third this year and a third next year. Or a third this year and maybe Lynch. If that doesn't work, then give them the second this year.

 

Then, I would attempt to trade down if one of the following two scenarios were presented to the Bills. If 1 of the top 4 OTs are left or if Clausen is still on the board. Basically try to switch slots in the first and pick up that second we gave away. Then, assuming we are somewhere in the middle of the first round, try to get either a NT or someone to shore up the defensive front 7. Best available. If we can't trade down, take a look at Dan Williams or Clausen.

 

Also, i wouldn't be opposed to trading a 5th rounder for Jason Campbell. Throw him in the the mix, low risk move.

 

 

 

Yet again, the Ravens aren't actually trying to get rid of Gaither. They want to keep him. Getting rid of him wouldn't make sense. But tendering him with a first-rounder DOES make sense, and so does spreading the occasional rumor about him, especially if you spread two rumors, one that he's available and another that he's lazy. That way nobody makes an offer and you can say to him .... "see, nobody was willing to give up a first for you."

 

Give up on Gaither, folks, it's pretty clear what's going on in Baltimore, and none of it involves Gaither going anywhere.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

But you CAN'T get a comparable talent in round 2. If there were comparable talents, they would also be predicted to go in Round 1 in the top ten. The round 2 guys aren't as good. That's why they will go in Round 2.

You are correct. Thurman thomas was not nearly as good as Gaston Green.

[Thurman#1]

Nope. McShay's opinions are based on whomever whispered to him last. He's got no ability to judge talent on his own...

 

 

 

And yet he's consistently one of the best mock drafters out there, year after year.

 

http://www.thehuddlereport.com/Free/mockdraftscoring.shtml

 

It's fashionable to hate on the guy this season, but he's not bad at all.

[Thurman#1]

You are correct. Thurman thomas was not nearly as good as Gaston Green.

 

 

Remind me, did I say that there has never been a second-round talent that was as good as a first-round talent? Nope, didn't think so.

[The Jokeman]

I agree that Todd McShay is not a particularly good talent evaluator.

 

But in his defense, we've all read the same reservations and criticisms of all the top tackle projects. He is correct in one sense, that the most talented tackles have motivation/character questions and that the most motivated tackles have limited talent. None of this year's tackles, like last year, appear to be cornerstone, franchise tackles.

 

Last year I posted two stories that stated that the 2009 draft was not a great year for offensive tackles. Some good prospects yes, but no Jonathan Ogdens, no Tony Bosellis, no Orlando Paces, no Walter Joneses.

 

Here are the top tackles from last year's draft and the grades given to them by Scouts Inc.

 

Jason Smith 97

Eugene Monroe 96

Andre Smith 95

Michael Oher 92

 

Oher outperformed the three tackles taken before him. He excelled on the right side but was mediocre on the left side. The other three were mild disappointments.

 

Here are the top tackles from this year's draft and the grades given to them by Scouts Inc.

 

Russell Okung 96

Brian Bulaga 95

Trent Williams 94

Anthony Davis 92

 

We've gone over this ad naseum but the point remains: there are many here who are dogmatic in their belief that we must draft an OT with our pick at #9.

 

And if the Bills were to do so, there's a very good chance that they would be making another first round draft mistake. So to those who are stubborn in their conviction that the Bills must draft a tackle at #9, I would say, be careful what you wish for.

Why would you calling improving out O-line a mistake? As let's look closer:

 

Demetrius Bell 8 game, 8 starts, 5 sacks allowed and 8 penalties.

**Jamon Merideth 8 games, 4 starts, 1.5 sacks allowed and 0 penalties.

 

In comparison

 

Jason Smith 8 games, 5 starts, with 2 sacks allowed and 1 penalty.

Eugene Monore 15 games, 13 starts, 7.25 sacks allowed and 3 penalties.

**Andre Smith 6 games, 1 start, with 0.5 sacks and allowed and 0 penalties.

**Michael Oher 16 games, 16 starts, 8.0 sacks allowed and 8 penalties.

 

** Played RT.

[dubs]

Yet again, the Ravens aren't actually trying to get rid of Gaither. They want to keep him. Getting rid of him wouldn't make sense. But tendering him with a first-rounder DOES make sense, and so does spreading the occasional rumor about him, especially if you spread two rumors, one that he's available and another that he's lazy. That way nobody makes an offer and you can say to him .... "see, nobody was willing to give up a first for you."

 

Give up on Gaither, folks, it's pretty clear what's going on in Baltimore, and none of it involves Gaither going anywhere.

 

Oh...I didn't realized that Ozzie Newsome was on the board.

 

What I said was that I would TRY if I were the Bills. As for the Ravens, it COULD make sense if they can get a good value for him. Most opinions have this as a very deep draft. If they got a high second round pick for Gaither and have Oher in the wings, then its a possibility.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Why would you calling improving out O-line a mistake? As let's look closer:

 

Demetrius Bell 8 game, 8 starts, 5 sacks allowed and 8 penalties.

**Jamon Merideth 8 games, 4 starts, 1.5 sacks allowed and 0 penalties.

 

In comparison

 

Jason Smith 8 games, 5 starts, with 2 sacks allowed and 1 penalty.

Eugene Monore 15 games, 13 starts, 7.25 sacks allowed and 3 penalties.

**Andre Smith 6 games, 1 start, with 0.5 sacks and allowed and 0 penalties.

**Michael Oher 16 games, 16 starts, 8.0 sacks allowed and 8 penalties.

 

** Played RT.

You're gonna have to work on your reading comprehension.