Who's to say the Bills won't be competetive this year?

[Rob's House]

Sure there are question marks. Who's going to play NT? What will the Oline look like? Who will play QB? How will the unproven WRs play?

 

With a little luck we could all be pleasantly surprised.

 

Let's say we take a ready to play today LT in the draft. If Wood gets healthy the line could start to gel a few games into the season.

 

Let's also say Hardy or Johnson rises to become a legit #2 reciever. Not that far fetched.

 

A legit NT would solidify the D, but even without one, this "hybrid" 3-4 they're talking about could utilize who we have on staff to capitalize on their abilities. We have a lot of talent on D.

 

So to summarize, after a yr for Wood and Levitre to develop, throwing in a LT (not to mention the guys like Bell who were starting last yr are now more experienced backups) should provide a much improved line. Half-way decent production out of one of our young recievers and some production from our young TEs should enable us to move the sticks and take advantage of our potent 1-2 punch on the ground.

 

 

The big ? in this scenario is QB. Even with what we've been shuffling under C with no protection for the last 4 seasons we've still pulled out 6 to 7 wins. If the D holds tight and the running game is strong (both realistic possibilities), we might be able to see a winning season with a second rate QB to "manage the game".

 

Just my thoughts. KMA

[Max997]

Let's also say Hardy or Johnson rises to become a legit #2 reciever. Not that far fetched.

 

that is extremely far fetched

 

the Bills simply have too many holes to fill including at the most important position on a football team

[MattyT]

To summarize...

 

All they need to do is:

- find an NT

- find a QB

- have a badly injured guy return very quickly and be as good or better than he was pre-injury

- get some production from our WRs (tied to finding a QB)

- draft an LT

- successfully run a 3-4 by capitalizing on the defensive personnel we have even though many don't match the scheme

 

...and they might be "competitive" (not necessarily good) this season?

 

Sure you don't want to throw in any more conditions?

[bbfan24]

Sure there are question marks. Who's going to play NT? What will the Oline look like? Who will play QB? How will the unproven WRs play?

 

With a little luck we could all be pleasantly surprised.

 

Let's say we take a ready to play today LT in the draft. If Wood gets healthy the line could start to gel a few games into the season.

 

Let's also say Hardy or Johnson rises to become a legit #2 reciever. Not that far fetched.

 

A legit NT would solidify the D, but even without one, this "hybrid" 3-4 they're talking about could utilize who we have on staff to capitalize on their abilities. We have a lot of talent on D.

 

So to summarize, after a yr for Wood and Levitre to develop, throwing in a LT (not to mention the guys like Bell who were starting last yr are now more experienced backups) should provide a much improved line. Half-way decent production out of one of our young recievers and some production from our young TEs should enable us to move the sticks and take advantage of our potent 1-2 punch on the ground.

 

 

The big ? in this scenario is QB. Even with what we've been shuffling under C with no protection for the last 4 seasons we've still pulled out 6 to 7 wins. If the D holds tight and the running game is strong (both realistic possibilities), we might be able to see a winning season with a second rate QB to "manage the game".

 

Just my thoughts. KMA

 

 

 

 

Optimism has been killing me for years!

[Endless Ike]

Me, I'm saying that.

[IDBillzFan]

To summarize...

 

All they need to do is:

- find an NT

- find a QB

- have a badly injured guy return very quickly and be as good or better than he was pre-injury

- get some production from our WRs (tied to finding a QB)

- draft an LT

- successfully run a 3-4 by capitalizing on the defensive personnel we have even though many don't match the scheme

Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?

[Rob's House]

To summarize...

 

All they need to do is:

- find an NT - Said it would be nice but not required

 

- find a QB - Said a second rate QB would suffice if he could "manage the game"

 

- have a badly injured guy return very quickly and be as good or better than he was pre-injury - I did say that, but don't expect him full speed until a month or 2 into the season.

 

- get some production from our WRs (tied to finding a QB) - Not that far out to assume 1 of 2 prospects might be decent.

 

- draft an LT - How unlikely is that?

 

- successfully run a 3-4 by capitalizing on the defensive personnel we have even though many don't match the scheme - We just signed an ILB and a 3-4 DE to what was already a talented group.

 

Nice try

[Alphadawg7]

I share this optimistic outlook, let me explain why:

 

1. Our defense will be better. The need for a NT is not nearly critical as some posters want to make it out to be. Our DL is not that bad off the way it is. Byrd enters the year as the starter, something he didnt do last year. Davis and Maybin really beef up our LB core with Davis veteran play in a 3-4 and Maybins speed and eplosiveness. Overall, I really like the prospects of our defense and think we could see a top 10 D out there on the field this year.

 

2. Our O Line will be better: Injuries, lack of playing time together as a unit, and inexperience were major reasons the line struggled so much. Its healthy again, Wood is ahead of schedule, and I expect to add a LT in the early parts of the draft. The line has a lot more experience now and will have the whole preseason to gel as I dont expect any Walker like cuts just before the season. They will still need to continue to get better, but I certainly think there is talent on this line and expect to add more in the draft.

 

3. Nelson: I expect Nelson to be integrated into the passing game much more this year and love his potential as a weapon. I think with someone like him, it will really help open up the running game and passing game.

 

4. The QB position: I cant imagine the QB production not improving, it was atrocious last year and yet we were still in games. There will be an open competition, and with a new staff I think we can expect better performances from this position. Honestly, if we go into camp with these 3 guys, I actually think Brohm wins the job. More importantly, I think Chan will get more out of this position regardless who is starting.

 

5. I actually think Johnson or Hardy will become a real factor this year, if not both. I am higher on Johnson and think he will be the one that takes control of the #2 spot, but I think they both have promise.

 

Curveball: If we get McNabb, then the odds of us making the playoffs signifcantly jump in my opinnion. Given points 1, 2, and 3 along with fixing the QB issue with McNabb makes us a legit contender for the division in my opinnion.

[thewildrabbit]

They hired a bunch of college coaches who will be learning how to do their job while doing their jobs. (uh oh learning curve)

 

They are implementing two entirely new schemes on offense and defense that the players AND coaches need to learn.

 

The only positive thing the team has going for it is that they have 2 somewhat experienced QB's in TE & Fitz and not some rookie who is starting from scratch.

[yakkydoodle]

Just keep drinking the kool aid.

[Rob's House]

Just keep drinking the kool aid.

 

What kool aid would that be? I haven't heard anyone pitching the Bills as a contender this year. Not even the organization.

 

 

Is it more desirable to be some whiny douche who bitches about how much everything's going to suck?

[Alphadawg7]

What kool aid would that be? I haven't heard anyone pitching the Bills as a contender this year. Not even the organization.

 

 

Is it more desirable to be some whiny douche who bitches about how much everything's going to suck?

 

That is what seems to be en vogue around here...heaven forbid if you actually see promise in areas of our team

[Celtic_soulja]

I've already said that if the stars align, yes the bills could be a good team THIS year...

 

For example, if a top notch LT falls to them at nine...and becomes a force...with our two guards coming in with a little experience under thier belt...Green is allllllllllllllright at right tackle...our o-line is a little above average instead of a complete joke like last season....we got a coach that likes to run the ball and will utilize our two backs that are both of high quality...this will tilt the time of possession on our side...with decreased pressure that comes with a solid line and a run first mentality, TE is efficient enough to complete passes when need be...offense could be in the middle ten teams in the NFL...

 

Then on D...even if we fail to nab a standout NT...we can still play Stroud/Williams at nose and Edwards and Williams/Stroud/McCargo for LDE....still not a bad D-Line...then you have Davis/Mitchell/Poz inside all very capable of making waves in an attacking scheme...outside you utilize Maybin the way he should be a speed rushing OLB...he is good for a bunch of sacks not having to deal with OT's putting him out of the play every down...then you shred Kelsay out or Shobel comes back and both become great pass rushing OLB's...again an attacking scheme could be terrifying QB's next season...we already know we have capable men in the secondary...so our defense could be among the top ten next season...

 

However, we are the Buffalo Bills not the New England Patriots...so it's more than likely we draft a first round tackle that looks ridiculous for at least the first year...Wood comes back late...our line is in shambles...Lynch shows he doesn't want to be here and runs half azzed...Trent is under so much pressure he dies before week five...

 

Defense...Stroud gets tripple teamed because and Edwards doubled...our LBs look confused, our outside LB's of Maybin and Kelsay are horrible....Maybin doesn't know where he's supposed to be and Kelsay is too slow to get there...Our secondary is left out to dry for another season...and we can't stop the run...

 

That second scenario is MUCH more likely...because I've been watching the Bills for too darn long to have a different opinion...we don't get LUCKY...we have to be the unluckiest team I've ever seen...

 

So is it possible sure it is, but nowhere near being probable...

[sabres...yawn]

16 wins.

0 losses.

 

 

what?

[b stein 22]

I doubt it but it could happen. I think the bills will be undefeated in the 2012 season and then the world blows up.

[....lybob]

The same reasoning that gets poor people to give up their money for lotto- but hey you don't need a dollar just a dream.

[Arkady Renko]

The tendency to think that trends continue and the problem of getting used to such mediocrity has made us forget how quickly teams can turn their fortunes around in the NFL.

 

Just a couple of years ago, the Dolphins went from 1-15 to 11-5. The Ravens went from 5-11 to 11-5 a couple of years ago as well. There are other good examples.

 

You shouldn't expect anything, but having no hope is pretty silly.

 

Imagine being an Orioles fan (like I am). That's real hopelessness.

[Tasmo]

However, we are the Buffalo Bills not the New England Patriots...so it's more than likely we draft a first round tackle that looks ridiculous for at least the first year...Wood comes back late...our line is in shambles...Lynch shows he doesn't want to be here and runs half azzed...Trent is under so much pressure he dies before week five...

 

Defense...Stroud gets tripple teamed because and Edwards doubled...our LBs look confused, our outside LB's of Maybin and Kelsay are horrible....Maybin doesn't know where he's supposed to be and Kelsay is too slow to get there...Our secondary is left out to dry for another season...and we can't stop the run...

 

That second scenario is MUCH more likely...because I've been watching the Bills for too darn long to have a different opinion...we don't get LUCKY...we have to be the unluckiest team I've ever seen...

 

So is it possible sure it is, but nowhere near being probable...

 

Luck is a strange and fickle thing and I think the Bills are bound to strike gold someday. They got close in an era that seems a life time ago, but what they are doing is getting prepared to take advantage of opportunities that present themselves the best way they can with Nix and Gailey. The plan is in play and time will tell how the ball will fall. Truth is though, These 2 guys have been winners most of the time. That doesn't happen by luck alone...

[BADOLBILZ]

I would say that the teams on the schedule are who's to say. Particularly the Pats, Jets and Dolphins who have certainly penciled in 2 victories each over Buffalo next season, and with good reason.

 

Time will tell, but one of the mistakes people make in the offseason is assuming changes will equate to improvement. For Bills fans, we have come to equate addition by subtraction as a reliable form of team improvement. It ain't.

 

The Bills were probably a 2-3 win team without TO last year. And TO sucked. But that's how close to horrendous they were. He helped them pull away and close some wins. Now he's gone. Schobel had 10 sacks. He's probably gone. The impact of their next best player in the front 7, Kyle Williams, has likely been diminished by a scheme change.

 

I like Gailey's offensive mind(even if not his head coaching skill) and I like the 3-4 as a base defense. Otherwise it's going to take a group genesis from a bunch of players who seem just as likely to fail as even become adequate players.

[JohnC]

To summarize...

 

All they need to do is:

- find an NT

- find a QB

- have a badly injured guy return very quickly and be as good or better than he was pre-injury

- get some production from our WRs (tied to finding a QB)

- draft an LT

- successfully run a 3-4 by capitalizing on the defensive personnel we have even though many don't match the scheme

 

...and they might be "competitive" (not necessarily good) this season?

 

Sure you don't want to throw in any more conditions?

 

The optimist forgot to consider that the other three teams within our own division are immensely better than the Bills. If you are walking off the plank into a sea full of sharks it doesn't matter whether you are wearing blinders or not. The outcome is the same.

[PromoTheRobot]

Good coaching wins games. If Chan is any good we can go 9-7 with the same team we had.

 

PTR

[sharper802]

Who's to say? Why not ask these guys how bad the Bills are going to be....

 

The LT we currently don't have on the team

The NT we don't have despite switching to a 3-4 defense

The multiple former practice squad guys that may end up being starters

The aging veteran DE being asked to move to OLB

[sharper802]

I share this optimistic outlook, let me explain why:

 

1. Our defense will be better. The need for a NT is not nearly critical as some posters want to make it out to be. Our DL is not that bad off the way it is. Byrd enters the year as the starter, something he didnt do last year. Davis and Maybin really beef up our LB core with Davis veteran play in a 3-4 and Maybins speed and eplosiveness. Overall, I really like the prospects of our defense and think we could see a top 10 D out there on the field this year.

 

2. Our O Line will be better: Injuries, lack of playing time together as a unit, and inexperience were major reasons the line struggled so much. Its healthy again, Wood is ahead of schedule, and I expect to add a LT in the early parts of the draft. The line has a lot more experience now and will have the whole preseason to gel as I dont expect any Walker like cuts just before the season. They will still need to continue to get better, but I certainly think there is talent on this line and expect to add more in the draft.

 

3. Nelson: I expect Nelson to be integrated into the passing game much more this year and love his potential as a weapon. I think with someone like him, it will really help open up the running game and passing game.

 

4. The QB position: I cant imagine the QB production not improving, it was atrocious last year and yet we were still in games. There will be an open competition, and with a new staff I think we can expect better performances from this position. Honestly, if we go into camp with these 3 guys, I actually think Brohm wins the job. More importantly, I think Chan will get more out of this position regardless who is starting.

 

5. I actually think Johnson or Hardy will become a real factor this year, if not both. I am higher on Johnson and think he will be the one that takes control of the #2 spot, but I think they both have promise.

 

Curveball: If we get McNabb, then the odds of us making the playoffs signifcantly jump in my opinnion. Given points 1, 2, and 3 along with fixing the QB issue with McNabb makes us a legit contender for the division in my opinnion.

Please give one reason why you think Brohm will be the starter. And you can't use because Edwards and Fitz are awful.

Why does this board love practice squad guys like Stupar and Brohm????

[thewildrabbit]

Please give one reason why you think Brohm will be the starter. And you can't use because Edwards and Fitz are awful.

Why does this board love practice squad guys like Stupar and Brohm????

My view of Brohm is he will be cut if the Bills add a veteran QB, JMO.

 

For him to be waived by the Packers and then added to the practice squad tells me the Packers coaching staff thinks he needs a ton of development.

 

After watching him in that Falcon game last season I didn't see anything great. The one deep throw to TO was very under thrown and intercepted, lots of dump offs.

[BobbyC81]

With a little luck we could all be pleasantly surprised.

 

 

Just my thoughts. KMA

 

I agree. They went 6-10 with injuries & inexperience resulting in horrible O-line play.

 

Also there were a couple of close late losses & pathetic coaching.

 

How can people say 2-14 next season??

[Celtic_soulja]

Honestly I think we have a pretty solid team...even at 6-10 with a better offensive gameplan we win a whole lot more games...I think with a run first coach like Chan we go 10-6 this season...

[Thurman#1]

Who's to say the Bills won't be competetive this year?

 

 

 

Um ... me!

[Thurman#1]

- find an NT - Said it would be nice but not required

 

 

Gosh, well, if you said it would be nice but not required, then it must be true.

 

- find a QB - Said a second rate QB would suffice if he could "manage the game"

 

 

Second-rate QBs need one thing to manage the game ... an excellent offense around them. And game-managing QBs only win numerous games if they have extremely good defenses. We have neither.

 

 

 

- have a badly injured guy return very quickly and be as good or better than he was pre-injury - I did say that, but don't expect him full speed until a month or 2 into the season.

 

 

Alright, this one is definitely possible, if not probable, but Wood frankly wasn't great last year. He was pretty good for a rookie, but in the grand scheme of things, he struggled. And now in the off-season his strength, ordinarily increasing greatly between the first and second years, can't be worked on and he won't be doing much in offseason workouts or training camp. Frankly, this isn't a big deal, unfortunately.

 

- get some production from our WRs (tied to finding a QB) - Not that far out to assume 1 of 2 prospects might be decent.

 

 

It's certainly possible, but frankly neither guy has had much experience at all. You'd expect them to be strong and fit at this point, but neither guy could beat out Josh Reed last year. There's a chance, but it's far from a slam dunk that even one guy will prove to be NFL standard.

 

-- draft an LT - How unlikely is that?

 

 

Very likely. What is unlikely is that a rookie LT playing next to a second-year man at LG will play extremely well. These things take time. I would definitely expect an upgrade from last year's LT situation if we get an LT in the first two rounds, even from a rookie. But does that mean that play will be at a competent level? Not necessarily.

 

-

- successfully run a 3-4 by capitalizing on the defensive personnel we have even though many don't match the scheme - We just signed an ILB and a 3-4 DE to what was already a talented group.

 

Nice try

 

 

If it was already a talented group, how come our defense wasn't all that great last year? We weren't as bad as the stats indicated, our defense wore down because of the pathetic nature of the offense, but we were definitely far from great. Far from it.

 

And now all of our "talented group" are playing new positions. You have no problem with that? Strout has never played DE. Kyle Williams, who has good size for a 1-technique - the position he played last year - is a munchkin for a nose tackle, the position he will play this year, a position he's never played. Poz is small for a 3 - 4 ILB. Andra Davis ought to be a solid guy, not great but solid. Not one single one of our OLBs has ever taken a single snap as a linebacker. Ever in his pro career. Ellis, Maybin, Schobel and Kelsay. Not one snap. That doesn't bother you? The only way that can be seen as a positive is if you're on laughing gas.

 

What you basically are saying is that we have about 14 serious question marks and that if all 14 questions end up having the best possible answers, then we might be good. Guess what, there isn't a single team in the NFL that can't say that. If you have a number of serious questions you have to expect that a few will come out with extremely positive results, a few with extremely negative results and most somewhere in the middle.

 

And that is not going to be anywhere near enough to make us a competitive team.

[Thurman#1]

The tendency to think that trends continue and the problem of getting used to such mediocrity has made us forget how quickly teams can turn their fortunes around in the NFL.

 

Just a couple of years ago, the Dolphins went from 1-15 to 11-5. The Ravens went from 5-11 to 11-5 a couple of years ago as well. There are other good examples.

 

You shouldn't expect anything, but having no hope is pretty silly.

 

Imagine being an Orioles fan (like I am). That's real hopelessness.

 

 

 

Definitely teams can turn things around. Just not when they have the huge number of holes that we have.

 

It's also become very obvious that that good year in Miami was a fluke largely due to an extremely easy schedule that year. The Ravens aren't a great example either. Do you remember what their record had been the year before they went 5 - 11? 13 - 3. Have we gone 13 - 3 in the past two years? If we had, I would definitely think that there was a pretty good chance for a turnaround.

[Rob's House]

Second-rate QBs need one thing to manage the game ... an excellent offense around them. And game-managing QBs only win numerous games if they have extremely good defenses. We have neither.

 

We could well have a very strong defense and power running game.

 

 

Very likely. What is unlikely is that a rookie LT playing next to a second-year man at LG will play extremely well. These things take time. I would definitely expect an upgrade from last year's LT situation if we get an LT in the first two rounds, even from a rookie. But does that mean that play will be at a competent level? Not necessarily.

 

No, not necessarily, but even modest improvement at both tackle positions, could have been the difference in 3-4 games last yr.

 

 

If it was already a talented group, how come our defense wasn't all that great last year? We weren't as bad as the stats indicated, our defense wore down because of the pathetic nature of the offense, but we were definitely far from great. Far from it.

 

And now all of our "talented group" are playing new positions. You have no problem with that? Strout has never played DE. Kyle Williams, who has good size for a 1-technique - the position he played last year - is a munchkin for a nose tackle, the position he will play this year, a position he's never played. Poz is small for a 3 - 4 ILB. Andra Davis ought to be a solid guy, not great but solid. Not one single one of our OLBs has ever taken a single snap as a linebacker. Ever in his pro career. Ellis, Maybin, Schobel and Kelsay. Not one snap. That doesn't bother you? The only way that can be seen as a positive is if you're on laughing gas.

Didn't say it was ideal, but again, not going to a straight up 3-4. Also in a 3-4, depending on how it's run, the OLB position doesn't have to be dramatically different from a DE position, and for guys like Schobel, Ellis, and Maybin I think there's a good chance it will better utilize their talents regardless of whether they've played from that specific position. I wouldn't be surprised to see Mitchell playing OLB either.

 

Gosh, well, if you said it would be nice but not required, then it must be true.

 

Smart ass mother f*cker

 

 

What you basically are saying is that we have about 14 serious question marks and that if all 14 questions end up having the best possible answers, then we might be good. Guess what, there isn't a single team in the NFL that can't say that. If you have a number of serious questions you have to expect that a few will come out with extremely positive results, a few with extremely negative results and most somewhere in the middle.

 

And that is not going to be anywhere near enough to make us a competitive team.

 

Actually, I said if about 3 or 4 of those question marks work out for us we could be pleasantly surprised. You're the one who seems to be so certain of everything.

 

The basic jist was that we have some areas of strength, and while a dominant Super Bowl contender is probably two yrs of good decision making away, it's not unfathomable to imagine the Bills might not suck ass this year. I don't fully understand why that got your panties in such an uproar.

[dpberr]

I don't think we will see the playoffs this year, but I think this team will be competitive.

 

We were 6-10 under the likes of Jauron/Fewell with nearly the entire team being guys picked from the stands at 12:30 before the game. Looking back that was a modern day NFL miracle.

 

I think it will be a promising year. I'm a fan who feels we have a coach and GM with their heads screwed on straight, for the first time since the early 90s.

[HurlyBurly51]

I fear the OLB position for 2010 will be akin to what happened for the OL in 2009. They had an asinine plan in the first place, after getting rid of Peters, to switch Walker over to LT, then cut him before the season. And moving Butler out, before the injury of course, wasn't a great move either, and the injury only exacerbated that decision. They did at least invest wisely on the interior.

 

If they proceed with the current plan at OLB and again choose not to address the position in the draft like they ignored the Tackle position last year (hello, Oher), it will probably play out similarly at OLB this season. I have about 0% confidence that Maybin, Kelsay, Schobel (if he even returns) or Ellis is equipped to make the transition. And they really have nothing else behind that, other than maybe moving some inside guys out. That makes this a high priority in April.

 

C'mon Buddy, I know you're smarter than last years crew. At least build that D up with a NT and OLB. Sprinkle in a LT. Do this with our first 3 picks. We'll probably have to make due with what's on the roster at QB, but add your scatback and throw in a WR, and we can be well on the road to recovery if you can truly pick out "football" players as well as we think you can.