nostyle126 Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Just curious for opinions. Here is mine. Moorman would've started over Tuten or any other punter we had during that stretch. Lindell would've started over Norwood but not Christie. Stroud would've started over Wright. I think McGee would've started over Odomes. Schobel would've started over Seals...and perhaps even Hansen. That's it. There are some borderline ones. Maybe Byrd would've gotten the nod over Kelso but I bet not, since the coaches loved having the brainy Kelso out on the field. Maybe Lee Evans would've started over Beebe in a 3-WR set. Any others? Agree, disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Lee Evans would be in the Hall of fame if he was in that team. Schobel Evans Stroud Williams Kyle Florence or McGee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide_right Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Just curious for opinions. Here is mine. Moorman would've started over Tuten or any other punter we had during that stretch. Lindell would've started over Norwood but not Christie. Stroud would've started over Wright. I think McGee would've started over Odomes. Schobel would've started over Seals...and perhaps even Hansen. That's it. There are some borderline ones. Maybe Byrd would've gotten the nod over Kelso but I bet not, since the coaches loved having the brainy Kelso out on the field. Maybe Lee Evans would've started over Beebe in a 3-WR set. Any others? Agree, disagree? Evans over Beebe, no doubt. Bills find a way to get him on the field. I don't think Stroud even comes close to starting over Wright. Stroud might be a little bigger but he's slow and Wright makes a lot more plays. I think our entire secondary is better now other than Strong Safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuit97 Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Lee Evans would be in the Hall of fame if he was in that team. Schobel Evans Stroud Williams Kyle Florence or McGee lee evans is not that great. He's good and overpayed but not great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Lee Evans has never taken a hit in his life and has a bad attitude like Chris Burkett. Good player but not a team guy and too shy to take a hit. He probably would have been let go by Marv like Burkett was for being a kitty. Lee Evans should not be mentioned in the same paragraph as Beebe, Lofton and Reed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VADC Bills Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Evans over Beebe, no doubt. Bills find a way to get him on the field. I don't think Stroud even comes close to starting over Wright. Stroud might be a little bigger but he's slow and Wright makes a lot more plays. I think our entire secondary is better now other than Strong Safety. Leonard Smith, Mark Kelso, Henry Jones later on. I think our safeties back then could hit better than our safeties now. Our present safties are still a work in progress. I think they are a strong point if we can keep George Wilson. Wilson and Byrd have the makings of a great combination in the secondary. Stroud is stronger at the point of presence than Wright. Think of Emmitt Smith running down the gut of the Bills defense. Our LB's were great. If the Bills win a SB, Cornelius Bennett and Daryl Talley would be in the HOF. Evans gets the nod over Beebe but I would have loved to have seen Moulds in that line up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Levy would not have started Byrd, because he never started rookies. I think Poz could have started over Bailey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Kind of agree, I still contend that Schobel is a second team player on a Super Bowl caliber team. As far as Stroud, Ted Washingtton or Smerlas would get the nod over him. The Lee Avans story here in Buffalo is sad. He plays with Kelly and he is a HOF. He is a class act too. I still like Fred Jackson, a character player who would have fit right in with the 90s teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC882 Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Brian Moorman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VADC Bills Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Levy would not have started Byrd, because he never started rookies.I think Poz could have started over Bailey. If it wasn't for injuries Byrd may not have started this Bills squad. I don't see any of the Bills LB's today being as good as Bailey or Patton. These guys were very under rated because of the pro bowlers all around them. In fact I pine for the days of Spikes, Fletcher and Posey when I see today's LB's. I don't think today's LB's could have cracked that line up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncha Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Kind of agree, I still contend that Schobel is a second team player on a Super Bowl caliber team. As far as Stroud, Ted Washingtton or Smerlas would get the nod over him. The Lee Avans story here in Buffalo is sad. He plays with Kelly and he is a HOF. He is a class act too. I still like Fred Jackson, a character player who would have fit right in with the 90s teams. Lindell over Norwide..but I'd say about equal to Christie. Moorman possibly. Kyle Williams...thats about it. I wouldn't put Evans in front of any starting WR buffalo had in early 1990's. Shobel is too hot and cold...he is great two or three games a year, then disappears for long periods of time for whatever reason. There is no consistency with him. I wouldn't put him ahead of Phil Hansen...no way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Lindell over Norwide..but I'd say about equal to Christie. Moorman possibly. Kyle Williams...thats about it. I wouldn't put Evans in front of any starting WR buffalo had in early 1990's. Shobel is too hot and cold...he is great two or three games a year, then disappears for long periods of time for whatever reason. There is no consistency with him. I wouldn't put him ahead of Phil Hansen...no way. Norwoods missed kick in SB 25, albeit a monumental one, clouds the memory of some of you, or, maybe you are not old enough to realize, Scott Norwood was an outstanding kicker for the Bills... Rian Lindell, on the other hand, is vastly overrated. Lindell has been consistent, because he has rarely been asked to kick in pressure situations...and when he has, he hasn't been real impressive. Norwood, pre Super Bowl 25, and Christie were both better than Lindell... Rian was positively bad when he first came to Buffalo, but, because of his bloated contract, and the fact that the team pretty much sucked anyways, he was given far more time to work his way to a respectable level in Buffalo... other than SB 25, I can think of very few clutch kicks, regular season that Norwood missed... he had a rough season in 1991, no doubt the effect of the miss. Lindell has a number of chokes on his Buffalo resume... and worse, wasn't even asked to make attempts, because his coaches knew he couldn't perform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 If it wasn't for injuries Byrd may not have started this Bills squad.I don't see any of the Bills LB's today being as good as Bailey or Patton. These guys were very under rated because of the pro bowlers all around them. In fact I pine for the days of Spikes, Fletcher and Posey when I see today's LB's. I don't think today's LB's could have cracked that line up. Crud, if Scott Radicec of then, was on todays rosteer, he might be the best linebacker on the roster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBaroo Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Brian Moorman. Who was our punter back then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregkash Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Lee Evans has never taken a hit in his life and has a bad attitude like Chris Burkett. Good player but not a team guy and too shy to take a hit. He probably would have been let go by Marv like Burkett was for being a kitty. Lee Evans should not be mentioned in the same paragraph as Beebe, Lofton and Reed. what makes you say this? Lee Evans first of all, makes great plays when given the opportunity. And despite having 800 different quarterbacks, 400 different offensive coordinators and 2,306 different offensive systems, has never said one disparaging thing against pretty much anybody. He runs the routes that are given to him and he'll go over the middle when the route tells him to go over the middle. He is a captain of the team, elected on by the team. To say he has a bad attitude and is not a team guy is absolutely ridiculous, I take offense for him and I really hope you come back with some proof of this so I can eat my words but other than that you're jsut talking out your ass, and your breath smells like ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBaroo Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Schobel - no way The only 3 that would have started would be: Moorman Lindell McGee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBaroo Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Schobel - no way The only 3 that would have started would be: Moorman Lindell McGee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostyle126 Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 Who was our punter back then? We went from John Kidd (decent) to Rick Tuten (eh) to Chris Mohr (overrated because "he knows the winds at Rich"). Moorman is better than all of 'em. Regarding Lindell versus Norwood, I'd say they're both the same in terms of "clutch". I wouldn't want either of 'em if the game is on the line. But Lindell has a stronger leg. We never even woulda bothered putting Norwood out on the field for a 50+ fieldgoal attempt. Christie, on the other hand, had a solid leg AND accuracy. We stole him from Sam Wyche and the Bucs, for those of you that don't remember the soap opera there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostyle126 Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 Levy would not have started Byrd, because he never started rookies. He eventually did...Ruben Brown. I think Poz could have started over Bailey. Maybe. Very similar abilities, but Bailey proved for a long time that he could stay healthy...something Poz has yet to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Just curious for opinions. Here is mine. Moorman would've started over Tuten or any other punter we had during that stretch. Lindell would've started over Norwood but not Christie. Stroud would've started over Wright. I think McGee would've started over Odomes. Schobel would've started over Seals...and perhaps even Hansen. That's it. There are some borderline ones. Maybe Byrd would've gotten the nod over Kelso but I bet not, since the coaches loved having the brainy Kelso out on the field. Maybe Lee Evans would've started over Beebe in a 3-WR set. Any others? Agree, disagree? hansen and schobel are a wash. stroud over wright(people forget how much bruce and the LBs covered up for 2/3 of that D line)..and most of our DBs are better now than they were back then--SLIGHTLY. So all of the 90s LBs were better.All of the O line was better.We had Bruce.Kelly.Thurman.Reed.Lofton(ok a wash with Evans only because Evans is in his prime and Lofton was toward the end).TO and Andre are a wash because TO toward the end and Andre in his prime. Evans is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than Beebe was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Crud, if Scott Radicec of then, was on todays rosteer, he might be the best linebacker on the roster... so true.Radecic is way better than anyone we have right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 what makes you say this? Lee Evans first of all, makes great plays when given the opportunity. And despite having 800 different quarterbacks, 400 different offensive coordinators and 2,306 different offensive systems, has never said one disparaging thing against pretty much anybody. He runs the routes that are given to him and he'll go over the middle when the route tells him to go over the middle. He is a captain of the team, elected on by the team. To say he has a bad attitude and is not a team guy is absolutely ridiculous, I take offense for him and I really hope you come back with some proof of this so I can eat my words but other than that you're jsut talking out your ass, and your breath smells like ****. As a leader I expect him not to throw Qb's under the bus and openly campaign for one player over another, especially through the media like he did for Losman over the likes of several other QB's. Evans liked Losman because he knew he'd get those long passes several times per game, even if it hurt the rest of our offense. As far as running routes. He is probably the worst route runner I've seen. He never goes across the middle and I've seen him time and again pull up and let a ball get intercepted if he has to take on a safety going for the ball. he avoids all contact. Watch him sometime and go to a game. Last game I went to the folks I was with watched every route he ran. he never crossed over the hash marks on any route for the entire game. Whether that is him or coaching, who can say for sure. But I would expect as much pressure as our Qb's have been under that he would at times have to cross a hash mark to adjust a route to help a QB out. Not once. Watching on TV it is also pretty obvious he is a one route pony. So as good as those pretty long passes are they are rare (under 8 per year). Add to that his obvious poor attitude and off field chattering, he is not a team player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharper802 Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Leonard Smith, Mark Kelso, Henry Jones later on. I think our safeties back then could hit better than our safeties now. Our present safties are still a work in progress. I think they are a strong point if we can keep George Wilson. Wilson and Byrd have the makings of a great combination in the secondary. Stroud is stronger at the point of presence than Wright. Think of Emmitt Smith running down the gut of the Bills defense. Our LB's were great. If the Bills win a SB, Cornelius Bennett and Daryl Talley would be in the HOF. Evans gets the nod over Beebe but I would have loved to have seen Moulds in that line up. You fail to realize the poor LB play is the primary reason they didn't win the first SB.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharper802 Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 As a leader I expect him not to throw Qb's under the bus and openly campaign for one player over another, especially through the media like he did for Losman over the likes of several other QB's. Evans liked Losman because he knew he'd get those long passes several times per game, even if it hurt the rest of our offense. As far as running routes. He is probably the worst route runner I've seen. He never goes across the middle and I've seen him time and again pull up and let a ball get intercepted if he has to take on a safety going for the ball. he avoids all contact. Watch him sometime and go to a game. Last game I went to the folks I was with watched every route he ran. he never crossed over the hash marks on any route for the entire game. Whether that is him or coaching, who can say for sure. But I would expect as much pressure as our Qb's have been under that he would at times have to cross a hash mark to adjust a route to help a QB out. Not once. Watching on TV it is also pretty obvious he is a one route pony. So as good as those pretty long passes are they are rare (under 8 per year). Add to that his obvious poor attitude and off field chattering, he is not a team player. Do you think the WR's call the pass routes? Are you retarded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Do you think the WR's call the pass routes? Are you retarded? Do you think it isn't a free for all when the pocket breaks down? Are you retarded? Do you also think the WR's don't have some say in what routes they run and are willing to run? Are you retarded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabres...yawn Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 None. Because they would have only been about 9 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince61 Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Levy would not have started Byrd, because he never started rookies. I think this is absolutely true, but Levy's defenses were not that good. The Bills secondary today is much stronger than in the 90s. In fact, we went to one Superbowl with the 28th ranked defense (i think is was Dallas part I in Pasadena.) Kelso was horrible. We had the best defensive player in the league, but without Bruce, that defense just wasn't that good. You'll certainly never hear one of their names listed as HOFame possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Levy would not have started Byrd, because he never started rookies.I think Poz could have started over Bailey. Gailey over Levy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Leonard Smith, Mark Kelso, Henry Jones later on. I think our safeties back then could hit better than our safeties now. Our present safties are still a work in progress. I think they are a strong point if we can keep George Wilson. Wilson and Byrd have the makings of a great combination in the secondary. Stroud is stronger at the point of presence than Wright. Think of Emmitt Smith running down the gut of the Bills defense. Our LB's were great. If the Bills win a SB, Cornelius Bennett and Daryl Talley would be in the HOF. Evans gets the nod over Beebe but I would have loved to have seen Moulds in that line up. No way Stroud works in 3-4. Just not big enough. Granted Wright was a little smaller but the Bills philosophy was for speed in that position. If they went bigger/slower there were plenty guys that would beat out Stroud. Don't forget, Wright beat out Smerlas who was as big as Stroud bit also quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 We went from John Kidd (decent) to Rick Tuten (eh) to Chris Mohr (overrated because "he knows the winds at Rich"). Moorman is better than all of 'em. Regarding Lindell versus Norwood, I'd say they're both the same in terms of "clutch". I wouldn't want either of 'em if the game is on the line. But Lindell has a stronger leg. We never even woulda bothered putting Norwood out on the field for a 50+ fieldgoal attempt. Christie, on the other hand, had a solid leg AND accuracy. We stole him from Sam Wyche and the Bucs, for those of you that don't remember the soap opera there. You are really off on this...Norwood was a great clutch kicker, Lindell is the one Jauron coddled, and lost with. I don't have time to do the research now, but Norwood had a load of game winning kicks... I can honestly only recall Lindell missing "clutch" kicks... like I said earlier, people are letting that SB 25 miss obscure the fact that, until then, Norwood was about as good as a kicker could be. He didn't have the leg strength of Christie, I will agree, but Lindell doesn't belong in the same category as either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostyle126 Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 You are really off on this...Norwood was a great clutch kicker, Lindell is the one Jauron coddled, and lost with. I don't have time to do the research now, but Norwood had a load of game winning kicks... I can honestly only recall Lindell missing "clutch" kicks... like I said earlier, people are letting that SB 25 miss obscure the fact that, until then, Norwood was about as good as a kicker could be. He didn't have the leg strength of Christie, I will agree, but Lindell doesn't belong in the same category as either... Norwood was a good kicker from 45 or closer, but I will remind you that he missed an after point the week before Superbowl XXV too, hence the weird 51-3 score. Then came the SB, which totally shot his confidence. He had a miserable following season and that was the end of him. That SB was the 1990 season, so since my question pertains to the early '90s we shouldn't be counting Norwood's earlier years, which were solid. Lindell would be better than a broken Norwood. And Christie is better than both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VADC Bills Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 You fail to realize the poor LB play is the primary reason they didn't win the first SB.... What I realize is that great linebacker play got us to those Superbowls.... No matter how you assess the play of the various units in the first SB it still came down to a very makable FG in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Just curious for opinions. Here is mine. Moorman would've started over Tuten or any other punter we had during that stretch. Lindell would've started over Norwood but not Christie. Stroud would've started over Wright. I think McGee would've started over Odomes. Schobel would've started over Seals...and perhaps even Hansen. That's it. There are some borderline ones. Maybe Byrd would've gotten the nod over Kelso but I bet not, since the coaches loved having the brainy Kelso out on the field. Maybe Lee Evans would've started over Beebe in a 3-WR set. Any others? Agree, disagree? I agree in general. The only things I would change are: • McGee starts over Kirby Jackson, not Odomes. • Poz gets the nod over Bailey. • I don't think that Schobel starts. He is a better pass rusher than Seals or Hansen but not as strong against the run and that's not the kind of help those teams needed. He would probably be a situational player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 I agree in general. The only things I would change are: • McGee starts over Kirby Jackson, not Odomes. • Poz gets the nod over Bailey. • I don't think that Schobel starts. He is a better pass rusher than Seals or Hansen but not as strong against the run and that's not the kind of help those teams needed. He would probably be a situational player. Irvin dominated Odome because he was too small and not physical enough to deal with Irvin's constant push offs. I definitely think McGee gets the nod over Odomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 I'd have to say Aaron Maybin, John McCargo and Donte Whitner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 I'd have to say Aaron Maybin, John McCargo and Donte Whitner. McCargo doesn't make the team, Whitner may not either. Maybin too soon to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioniere Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Evans over Beebe, no doubt. Bills find a way to get him on the field. I don't think Stroud even comes close to starting over Wright. Stroud might be a little bigger but he's slow and Wright makes a lot more plays. I think our entire secondary is better now other than Strong Safety. I disagree on Stroud. Wright was overrated and not a great NT in the 3-4. Our run defense actually got worse when they replaced Smerlas with Wright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostyle126 Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 I agree in general. The only things I would change are: • McGee starts over Kirby Jackson, not Odomes. • Poz gets the nod over Bailey. • I don't think that Schobel starts. He is a better pass rusher than Seals or Hansen but not as strong against the run and that's not the kind of help those teams needed. He would probably be a situational player. McGee DEFINITELY starts over Jackson, Williams, and Washington. I also think he would've started over Odomes. Schobel is definitely borderline at best. BUT...what would Schobel be like if he had a Bruce Smith across from him and a Cornelius Bennett lined up next to him? I can see Poz over Bailey, but Bentley? Maddox? Patton? I'd say Poz is a better athlete than all of 'em but a touch smaller, making him more prone to injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Lee Evans would be in the Hall of fame if he was in that team. Schobel Evans Stroud Williams Kyle Florence or McGee Schobel would have been a third down guy behind Bruce and Hansen- and a very good one at that. Evans would have been a DOMINANT WR, opposite Lofton (who was better) and with Reed in the slot Stroud either starts at NT in the 3-4 or even better, next to Jeff Wright, who would play he natural position, instead of the idiotic mistake of the coaching staff, playing him at NT. Williams would be a backup Florence or McGee could have been the nobody that often was opposite Nate Odomes, who was VERY overrated, IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioniere Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 As a leader I expect him not to throw Qb's under the bus and openly campaign for one player over another, especially through the media like he did for Losman over the likes of several other QB's. Evans liked Losman because he knew he'd get those long passes several times per game, even if it hurt the rest of our offense. As far as running routes. He is probably the worst route runner I've seen. He never goes across the middle and I've seen him time and again pull up and let a ball get intercepted if he has to take on a safety going for the ball. he avoids all contact. Watch him sometime and go to a game. Last game I went to the folks I was with watched every route he ran. he never crossed over the hash marks on any route for the entire game. Whether that is him or coaching, who can say for sure. But I would expect as much pressure as our Qb's have been under that he would at times have to cross a hash mark to adjust a route to help a QB out. Not once. Watching on TV it is also pretty obvious he is a one route pony. So as good as those pretty long passes are they are rare (under 8 per year). Add to that his obvious poor attitude and off field chattering, he is not a team player. I tend to agree. I don't think Evans has been a great Bills receiver. There's no way he starts over Reed or Lofton, and its not automatic that he plays over Beebe either. Great WRs will have dominant games once in a while, even with a bad team. I can't ever recall that from Evans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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