LOST...Season 6

[DrDawkinstein]

Not sure if this has been discussed somewhere else in this thread (or the other seasons' threads), but I'm curious about the parallels between MiB/Jacob and Widmore/Ben. Both pairs appear to be playing lifelong games with unwritten rules and sometimes dire consequences. Anyone have any insight on these parallels?

 

Forgive me if this is obvious or already resolved... this show leaves me a bit... well... LOST.

 

great observation! its definitely been discussed, but i dont think we're even close to resolving what this "game" is. why people are playing? what are they playing for? how do they play it?...

 

some people think it's God vs the Devil... in whatever non-denominational form you want to picture them in.

 

i sometimes think that the show is going a step further. they say that this "game" has been going on for a very long time. what if they are showing what INSPIRED the classic story of God and the Devil, Good and Evil, etc.?!?

 

As in, some ancients (Egyptians? even earlier?) happened upon the island like our more recent visitors. some of them returned to their home and shared the story of this magical island (Eden?), with these 2 beings who were playing a game for our souls? The evil, or dark one, would tempt humans and play on their emotions to manipulate them into doing "bad" things. He would often take the shape of other people or animals to tempt them. The other, the good one, believed in free will and could/would not do anything to directly effect them, but he could arrange it so they had to make certain decisions.

 

Isnt this the basic story of Evil vs Good that goes back thousands of years?

 

Perhaps this is the truth behind that story?

 

 

 

 

 

i often think the name of the series has very little to do with being stranded on an island, and is more an adjective to describe the viewers experience! but that's why i love it!

[Hazed and Amuzed]

great observation! its definitely been discussed, but i dont think we're even close to resolving what this "game" is. why people are playing? what are they playing for? how do they play it?...

 

some people think it's God vs the Devil... in whatever non-denominational form you want to picture them in.

 

i sometimes think that the show is going a step further. they say that this "game" has been going on for a very long time. what if they are showing what INSPIRED the classic story of God and the Devil, Good and Evil, etc.?!?

 

As in, some ancients (Egyptians? even earlier?) happened upon the island like our more recent visitors. some of them returned to their home and shared the story of this magical island (Eden?), with these 2 beings who were playing a game for our souls? The evil, or dark one, would tempt humans and play on their emotions to manipulate them into doing "bad" things. He would often take the shape of other people or animals to tempt them. The other, the good one, believed in free will and could/would not do anything to directly effect them, but he could arrange it so they had to make certain decisions.

 

Isnt this the basic story of Evil vs Good that goes back thousands of years?

 

Perhaps this is the truth behind that story?

 

 

 

 

 

i often think the name of the series has very little to do with being stranded on an island, and is more an adjective to describe the viewers experience! but that's why i love it!

 

We think alike you and I. I was just having this same conversation this morning. I also brought up the Eden thing, could Eden have originally been located in Tunisia? I know that a lot of people say it was located in the Middle east but is Tunisia considered that to be in the ME? Just a theory I'm working on(every read Paradise lost?). I get the feeling that a story like the Bible is being told and we are the witnesses.

[extrahammer]

I think I've mentioned this before ... but Jeff is a close college friend of two of the exec producers on the show. He gets the best info because he's really the only media guy that's inside the inner circle of Bad Robot. He always gets the scoop on their projects, LOST being the most prominent. Anything that comes from him really comes from Bad Robot. (No offense to Jeff's journalistic integrity. He's a good writer and a good guy in his own right).

 

You, UConnJames, Jokeman, huey, and a few others make THIS THREAD really good as well.

 

Btw..

 

Tonight's episode is called "What Kate Does"...

[UConn James]

Guide Listing

 

LOST | Episode 6.02 | "LA X (Part 2)" Repeat | ABC 8 p.m.

 

The aftermath from the detonation of the hydrogen bomb is revealed.

 

LOST | Episode 6.03 | "What Kate Does" | ABC 9 p.m.

 

Kate is on the run while Jack must do something that could jeopardize the life of a friend.

[UConn James]

- Our ABC station was running an obnoxiously large school cancellation widget that took up the bottom 1/3 of the screen through the whole show. F--kers. One had a message below it where they usually list length of delay info, replaced to a "We're sad we won't see you tomorrow :-/". Seriously? An text emoticon on a school cancellation notice? Grow up, people.

 

- There's been some nice moments of Arzt at LAX. Tonight: "I'm walkin' here! I'm walkin' here!!

 

- This ep. centered on the Kate-Claire connection. What formed on the island is replicated in LA. Claire is still preggers in the sideways flash. The adoptive parents have split up (how did the psychic not see that that coming?!? Or maybe, again, he did) and Claire has labor pains much earlier than on the island, 36 weeks... then doesn't.

 

Then the shoe drops. Dr. Goodspeed?!!?? So, when Oceanic doesn't crash, 3 years later, Ethan just happens to be in LA. Nope. As I wrote last week, I'm getting the feeling that all of this since the S3 finale was the desired/known effect of the "Secondary protocol."

 

- Aldo fell for the "Wookie prisoner gag" in S3, and now, to prove how good he is, he gets owned by Kate and shot by a very Rousseau-like Claire.

 

- As Miles said, Hurley's in charge now? We've got Sawyer blaming himself for Juliet's death... b/c it all started when he talked her out of taking the sub in '74 "Because I didn't want to be alone." We've got Jack saying, "I don't trust myself!"... enough to be making decisions, b/c he's made a lot of bad ones lately. As Doc Jensen wrote, there's a crisis of leadership among the group. Jack and Sawyer both acted for selfish reasons which led to their current situation.

 

Sawyer had a ring hidden underneath the floorboards, and throws it, Desmond-style into the drink. Anybody with Tivo and the DVD for "Flashes Before Your Eyes"... Am I mistaken or did that look like the same ring? Again, the conceit of the mysterious box with unknown contents appears. As I linked to in last season's thread, this is a favorite device of JJ Abrams. Video link that is well worth watching. Speaking of JJ... tgreg, for a little insider info, is it definite that he's still hands-off of the series now that it's down to the wire? Do he and Lindelof/Cuse talk?

 

- Dogen and Lennon don't seem to have many friggin' translations for the most important things we want to know. Again, we get "infected" and now, we get that Sayid has been "claimed" apparently by the smoke monster side. And they try to kill him. Not cool, Dogen & Lennon. Not cool at all. Claire too, they say.

 

Speaking of leadership issues before, Dogen has some of his own. Explains that he uses the language barrier to "distance" himself from his people when they don't like his decisions. Jack wouldn't know anything about that, man. Slightest thing happens, he's there with a speech. Interesting baseball connection b/w the two (it is evidently Jack's favorite game, per his conversation with Lapidis in S4).

 

Their test of Sayid looked pretty familiar, no? At least the electrocution part. I don't know where we are in the curve, but it's continuing to follow the pattern of general themes happening backward/mirrored. What happened b/w Jin's flashes on the French team... (or afterward)? Did Rousseau learn how to test for the "sickness" from the Others? Perhaps she was she diagnosed the same way?

[Ramius]

Interesting episode again, after what i thought was a lackluster premiere. I think i liked this episode much better because they went back to story development as opposed to the straight "introduction" mode of the premiere.

 

That being said, i'm not sold on Dogen's group at the Temple. They are all too creepy and sketchy, in a season 1-2 "others" kind of way. Maybe its Dogen's way of acting, or the fact that they all follow what exactly he says without questioning it. there's something very odd about that group. I think there's a serious conflict of what they deem as "good" versus what The Losties deem as "good". They've got that whole attitude towards the Losties as "you're not supposed to be here, but since you are, you're not leaving" that we saw from the Others in earlier seasons. Thusfar, the Losties seem to be the onyl group of people involved with the island to consider themselves "special". Dharma, Others, and the Templites all feel like or think they are "chosen" to be on the island.

 

Interesting appearance of Ethan tied in again with Aaron. In one way/time or another, he's hell bent on being around or getting his hands on that kid. Obviously fate has shown that the paths of the sideways reality Losties was destined to cross paths in very similar ways to their island life. I'm not sure yet how this is going to tie in with the Island losties, or if it is going to be a direct link or an indirect/alternate type of interaction. On a somewhat related note, i wonder if they are going to re-visit or make note of Claire and her psychic with the "dont let someone else raise him" angle.

 

Claire on the jungle was a bit of a shock. She looked like rosseau and acted like her too. Perhaps Claire is searching for Aaron in the same way that Rosseau was searching for Alex? I think Claire is under the "dark" influence. She followed Christian into the jungle when we last saw her, and i got a good feeling that Christian (throughout the series on the island) is the "Dark man" in disguise.

 

Finally, i've got a hypothesis on the series end. I was talking with the girlfriend while watching it, and she thinks that the surprise ending if going to be that the Losties stay "happily ever after" on the island. After all, that would be a shocker. Playing off that, and since the series has been about repeating/recurring themes, i think that the Losties are going to become the new "Others" and that the series is going to end with some new group arriving on the island and the Losties acting like the original Others did when the Losties arrived.

[extrahammer]

Finally, i've got a hypothesis on the series end. I was talking with the girlfriend while watching it, and she thinks that the surprise ending if going to be that the Losties stay "happily ever after" on the island. After all, that would be a shocker. Playing off that, and since the series has been about repeating/recurring themes, i think that the Losties are going to become the new "Others" and that the series is going to end with some new group arriving on the island and the Losties acting like the original Others did when the Losties arrived.

 

That's probably one of the most interesting theories I've heard. And I think it would be a good ending as well.

 

Kinda interesting last night how the handled the Kate/Sawyer thing. I think they've put it to rest as Sawyer is after Juliet, not Kate. And Kate was after Sawyer I think, but she got a cold dose of reality last night. Sorry to get all soapy.

[The Jokeman]

Then the shoe drops. Dr. Goodspeed?!!?? So, when Oceanic doesn't crash, 3 years later, Ethan just happens to be in LA. Nope. As I wrote last week, I'm getting the feeling that all of this since the S3 finale was the desired/known effect of the "Secondary protocol."

 

- Dogen and Lennon don't seem to have many friggin' translations for the most important things we want to know. Again, we get "infected" and now, we get that Sayid has been "claimed" apparently by the smoke monster side. And they try to kill him. Not cool, Dogen & Lennon. Not cool at all. Claire too, they say.

 

I'm glad you took notice of Ethan's last name as starting to wonder, Ethan Goodspeed, Goodwin Stanhope and Tom Friendly, a coincidence or are they writers trying to tell us something?

 

Were they trying to kill Sayid or perhaps the darkness inside him? As I harken back to Lennon's first quote to Jack et all that if your friend here dies we're in a mess of trouble.

 

In terms of the episode, I was thinking that the couple were going to somehow be related to the island. Yet it could still happen since we have yet to see who the woman's husband is.

 

Other things that struck me was Aldo telling Justin to stay quiet about Rousseau's death, why? I think the Claire resembling Rousseau is obvious but she also reminded me of a young Eloise Hawking perhaps because she resembles her physically but just something I wanted to bring up but might not mean a thing.

 

That's probably one of the most interesting theories I've heard. And I think it would be a good ending as well.

 

Kinda interesting last night how the handled the Kate/Sawyer thing. I think they've put it to rest as Sawyer is after Juliet, not Kate. And Kate was after Sawyer I think, but she got a cold dose of reality last night. Sorry to get all soapy.

 

I was also kind of expecting Jack to kiss Kate before she went after Sawyer but that didn't materialize either. All and all the episode was good not great or earth shattering as did move the plot along and answer some questions but to be honest it didn't thrill me as much as the first hour of the premier.

[DrDawkinstein]

I'm glad you took notice of Ethan's last name as starting to wonder, Ethan Goodspeed, Goodwin Stanhope and Tom Friendly, a coincidence or are they writers trying to tell us something?

 

Goodspeed is Horace's last name. What I take from this is that Ethan and his mom evacuated the island, and he was never taken by the Others like he was in the first timeline. So it turns out that Ethan's real name is Goodspeed, Rom probably just fit with what the writers were trying to do (Ethan Rom = Other Man) in Season 1 without being able to plan for Seasons 5 and 6. I'd like to think they had this actually planned out, but that would be some real forward thinking.

 

In terms of the episode, I was thinking that the couple were going to somehow be related to the island. Yet it could still happen since we have yet to see who the woman's husband is.

 

oohhh, very good thought. i wonder if anything will ever come of it?

[Andrew in CA]

I really liked that episode, even if we didn't advance the Fake Locke (or as Jensen called him, the Locke-ness Monster) storyline.

 

My main thought after this one is- is the Dogan/Jacob team really the good team and Fake Locke's the bad? I'm starting to wonder if Jacob et al can be trusted. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure Charles Widmore is sided with one or the other of these factions, just not sure which. Him being with Alpert in 1954 points to Team Jacob, but he did get kicked off the island, so maybe he went with Team Fake Locke...

[YOOOOOO]

I really liked that episode, even if we didn't advance the Fake Locke (or as Jensen called him, the Locke-ness Monster) storyline.

 

My main thought after this one is- is the Dogan/Jacob team really the good team and Fake Locke's the bad? I'm starting to wonder if Jacob et al can be trusted. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure Charles Widmore is sided with one or the other of these factions, just not sure which. Him being with Alpert in 1954 points to Team Jacob, but he did get kicked off the island, so maybe he went with Team Fake Locke...

 

 

Widmore recruited Miles

 

Bram told Miles he was on the wrong team.....

 

Bram = jacob's "body guard"

 

 

not sure what all that means.....

 

sooooooo

[YOOOOOO]

A great ending would be:

 

Jack and real Locke(resurrected of course) sitting on the beach...watching a boat coming to the island(like the Jacob/MIB scene)

[The Jokeman]

Goodspeed is Horace's last name. What I take from this is that Ethan and his mom evacuated the island, and he was never taken by the Others like he was in the first timeline. So it turns out that Ethan's real name is Goodspeed, Rom probably just fit with what the writers were trying to do (Ethan Rom = Other Man) in Season 1 without being able to plan for Seasons 5 and 6. I'd like to think they had this actually planned out, but that would be some real forward thinking.

 

I really liked that episode, even if we didn't advance the Fake Locke (or as Jensen called him, the Locke-ness Monster) storyline.

 

My main thought after this one is- is the Dogan/Jacob team really the good team and Fake Locke's the bad? I'm starting to wonder if Jacob et al can be trusted. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure Charles Widmore is sided with one or the other of these factions, just not sure which. Him being with Alpert in 1954 points to Team Jacob, but he did get kicked off the island, so maybe he went with Team Fake Locke...

 

Let me try this again, I'm glad you took notice of Ethan's last name as starting to wonder, Ethan Goodspeed, Goodwin Stanhope and Tom Friendly, a coincidence or are they writers trying to tell us something?

[linksfiend]

Then the shoe drops. Dr. Goodspeed?!!?? So, when Oceanic doesn't crash, 3 years later, Ethan just happens to be in LA. Nope. As I wrote last week, I'm getting the feeling that all of this since the S3 finale was the desired/known effect of the "Secondary protocol."

Remember, in the sideways timeline the island is at the bottom of the ocean - I'm guessing as of the nuclear explosion of 77. So it's not that Ethan is in LA "3 years later" but his whole story has changed - maybe he never went to the island or became an Other.

[linksfiend]

- The adoptive parents have split up (how did the psychic not see that that coming?!? Or maybe, again, he did)

Again, are we to assume that all the "flashbacks" we were originally shown that occurred between '77-'04 occur in the sideways timeline? Would Claire have even seen a psychic? I don't know how to process this information yet.

[The Jokeman]

Remember, in the sideways timeline the island is at the bottom of the ocean - I'm guessing as of the nuclear explosion of 77. So it's not that Ethan is in LA "3 years later" but his whole story has changed - maybe he never went to the island or became an Other.

As noted earlier Ethan is Horace's son and in fact was born on the Island, remember Juliette helped with the birth ironically also in '77? Yet we never learned why he joined the hostiles/The Others.

[ricojes]

Remember, in the sideways timeline the island is at the bottom of the ocean - I'm guessing as of the nuclear explosion of 77. So it's not that Ethan is in LA "3 years later" but his whole story has changed - maybe he never went to the island or became an Other.

Exactly my thought, I don't believe it's a backup plan or secondary protocol. I believe the sideways timeline is life as if none of the losties and some of the others never went to the island, but shortly we will find out what would happen had they not gone. My guess is it's something of catastrophic proportions. It is kind of interesting how the losties, or maybe in a sideways timeline "not losties", seem to have a sense of déjà vu or at least a recognition of sorts of the other losties...

[UConn James]

Remember, in the sideways timeline the island is at the bottom of the ocean - I'm guessing as of the nuclear explosion of 77. So it's not that Ethan is in LA "3 years later" but his whole story has changed - maybe he never went to the island or became an Other.

 

Still trying to fit that stuff together. In the original timeline, (baby) Ethan stayed on the island even when the woman and children were evacuated. He then became a Ben acolyte... and was evidently a part of the Purge that killed his father, Horace.

 

I don't think we know whether the Left-Behinders changed things when Miles said to get the women and children off the island. Was Ethan included in the evacuation c. '77? By his appearance here, it looks like he was.

 

Or, how he got into this spot could be something entirely different.

 

-----

 

Question: what happened to Faraday's journal after they removed the bomb core? Did Jack take it with him or did Eloise Hawking still have it?

 

-----

 

Very interesting theory here.

 

-----

 

Doc Jensen's recap of "What Kate Does."

 

I'm just getting into reading it....

 

The stuff I loved: Josh Holloway's wrenching acting as he revealed the heartbreaking disclosure that he intended to propose to Juliet; the intrigue of ''infected'' and ''claimed'' Sayid; the hilarious irony of Dr. Ethan Goodspeed; the notable camaraderie of the Temple-stuck castaways, determined to survive their latest ordeal with ''live together, die alone'' idealism and great, knowing humor. (Hurley: ''You're not a zombie, right?'' Sayid: ''No, I am not a zombie.'') And don't look now, kids, but is Jack Shephard actually getting really likable again? I loved his sincere concern for Kate and Sayid, his willingness to accept Sawyer's seething anger, and his humbled self-awareness. When he told Dogen, ''I don't even trust myself,'' Jack may have uttered the most heroic statement of his wannabe hero life, because it was so painfully honest. Superman of Science? No. Superman of Faith? No. Just Jack. And in the end, one wonders if that's exactly what he needs to be to save the day for himself and his friends.

[UConn James]

Exactly my thought, I don't believe it's a backup plan or secondary protocol. I believe the sideways timeline is life as if none of the losties and some of the others never went to the island, but shortly we will find out what would happen had they not gone. My guess is it's something of catastrophic proportions. It is kind of interesting how the losties, or maybe in a sideways timeline "not losties", seem to have a sense of déjà vu or at least a recognition of sorts of the other losties...

 

Per the Jensen write-up:

We've been told not to view the Sideways stuff as an inconsequential ''What if...?'' fairy tale about an uncrashed Oceanic 815.

 

-----

 

Also wondering about the marshal's briefcase. Kate was so hot for it (the toy plane, as it turned out) on-island, yet in this sideways-flash it's right there and she doesn't even glance at it. Hmm.

[ricojes]

We've been told not to view the Sideways stuff as an inconsequential ''What if...?'' fairy tale about an uncrashed Oceanic 815.

I don't think it's inconsequential at all, and definitely not a fairy tale ending. But I think it will become crystal clear as to why the losties needed to go to the island very soon. I also think that Aaron flat lining was a significant scene, lots of possibilities there...

 

Also wondering about the marshal's briefcase. Kate was so hot for it (the toy plane, as it turned out) on-island, yet in this sideways-flash it's right there and she doesn't even glance at it. Hmm.

Another thing that struck me was the whale inside of Claire's bag, didn't Aaron have a similar whale when Kate and Jack were his "parents"?