finn

Here I disagree. That was a beautiful throw, beautiful "catch," beautiful breakup. Just good football all around. The loss hurts, but there were some terrific plays from players on both teams. The Watkins catch and the Gilmore breakup are two more that come to mind.

I can see Tuesday's headline, too: "Patriots, lacking two key players, lose to Bills team coming off bye," or something like that. The whine-fest will be insufferable.

I think it's fair to say that both have been as successful as they have been because they had each other. Give Brady Rex Ryan as coach and he maybe goes to the Super Bowl but not that many times. Give Belicheck Tyrod and this Bills team (for example) and he also goes to the Show, but maybe just once. Plug in any combination of great coach-qbs in NFL history and it amounts to the same thing. You need a franchise qb. But you also need a top head coach. And I'm here to tell you Rex Ryan ain't one of them.

I'm not a big fan of "what If? history, but as a thought exercise the notion sheds light on the two coaches' abilities. Under Belicheck, the Bills would more likely win tonight because they would be disciplined, focused, innovative, responsive and prepared. Under Ryan, the Patriots would more likely choke because they would be distracted by his grandstanding, take stupid penalties and play right into Belicheck's schemes. (The Bills would also be more likely to win with Belicheck because they would cheat.)

I was going to write "The Bills. Love 'em or leave 'em," but I knew the sarcasm would be lost on the O.P. I realize mindless jingoism is part of the game and definitely a big part of TBD, but it gets old, it really does, especially when the Pollyannas criticize anyone who points out the obvious, in this case that Ryan is a jackass taking his team backwards, the Bills tend to make fools of themselves on national TV, and their record against Brady and Belicheat is embarrassing. So why will I watch? Because I wouldn't still be a Bills fan if I didn't let hope triumph over experience. And because I live in Patriots* country and I want Brady et humiliated. So here's to the O.P. and others who demand mindless cheerleading as a condition of fandom: screw you. We're just as much fans as you, just less stupid.

We heard this at the beginning of the year, too. Will we hear the same type of thing at the end of the year? One wonders.

Teddy Bridgewater AND (not "or") David Carr vs. Sammy Watkins. The excuses flow like milk, but the equation doesn't change.

The OP nailed it for me. It's just hard to find the optimism. Mine was guarded because I thought/think Rex Ryan is an ass, but the defense was top notch, and we had some exciting new players on offense. What is so discouraging is the team going backwards on defense. From number four in yards and number one in sacks to...well, whatever they are. And the penalties. You just lose your steam. But I think most of us will get it back eventually, especially if they beat the Pats*.

How about Bridgewater or Carr? Yes, it's hindsight, but Whaley gave up two picks for Watkins when all he had was Manuel and his own delusions.

Thanks for the tip. I'll make good use of it.

Having Incognito on his left has to help, but with a struggling rookie on his other side... You have to give him credit, if PFF is right.

And when Koolaid drinkers turn out to be wrong, they usually sneer sarcastically. Check out your posts, man, Nothing but scorn for anyone who dares to question those all-knowing gods Ryan, Whaley, Marrone, Nix, Jauron, etc. etc. Fine, be optimistic, most of us are. But keep your wit to yourself, especially when the posters you sneer at turn out to be right, again and again.

I'm with everyone pointing out there's plenty of blame to go around. But, damn, how about an apology from those posters who flamed anyone who dared predict--correctly--that EJ would be ordinary or worse? The jury is in: the man is no more than a backup. What is up with you Kool Aid drinkers, you people who troll anyone who doesn't radiate eternal sunshine about the Bills? Is your own self esteem so low? Here's some cold water: EJ WAS a waste of a first-round pick, ok? And get used to this idea: Rex Ryan is a incompetent fool, and he will be fired after wasting still another two years of our time.

Yogi Berra said, "If you come to a fork in the road, take it." The Bills are at a fork. The Bills teams over the past 15 years would lose this game; the playoff versions would win. Not merely because of win percentage but because it's a gut-check game: Can the Bills play with the big boys? I love the Bills and want them badly to win. I think they have the talent to win. But I think Rex Ryan is taking them in the wrong direction. Bengals 30-14. I hope I'm wrong. I want to enjoy a season for a change.

Trying is not doing. I give him credit for his successes; I don't find excuses for his failures.

When I mentioned not being entirely sold on Whaley's performance as GM, several posters here wondered why I was skeptical (I did praise him for his additions this off season). Exhibit A is the right side of the offensive line. Exhibit B is shipping off Cassel, FredX and Bryce Brown for a box of tape and a jockstrap. He needs to put down the Red Bull. Or put his frantic energy into finding us some o-linemen.

Here's what's wrong: he went public. Why? Because he's frustrated, vain and he's decided to indulge himself while telling the world, "Hey, it's not me! It's the coaches and quarterbacks! I'm just as good as Odell and those guys, really!" He's putting his ego before the team, and it sucks. Shut up, Watkins, and play the game. It's not all about you, jerk. That's all we need, a prima donna.

He's paid big (huge) bucks for a reason. His teaching may not pay immediate dividends in that it often takes time for learning to sink in, but there's a reason teams hire coaches with his credentials as position coaches and not, say, whoever his assistants are who are making do in his absence. It's a good point to bring up, though. One could argue his return is more important to the long-term (still this season) success of the team than even Sammy and Shady. (In fact, you got to wonder about Shady's production, but that's a topic for another thread.)

I haven't been a big fan of Whaley, but I'm impressed by what he's done this past year. Some of the best-performing players on the roster were added this off-season. Our best wide receiver is Harvins; the best cornerback is Darby; the best offensive lineman is Incognito; the best running back is Karlos Williams; our best tight end is Clay; and of course the best quarterback is Taylor. All of them are not only the best at their position on the Bills; they rank among the best in the league. That's pretty good shooting!

This. You get people dismissing critics with "it's just one game," but it's not. It's 15 years' worth of these games.

Put Kiko on him, the best pass-coverage LB in the league. Oh, wait...

That would be "I couldn't care less." (-;

"I hope I never have the misfortune of meeting you"? "Negative" doesn't mean "Troll," buddy. BPA raises a legitimate point, and you reply by going personal.

Actually, I welcome a thread where we don't have to be a Pollyanna or include endless caveats to a pessimistic (read: realistic) take on the Bills. Posters who dare to disagree with the sunshine crowd are flamed mercilessly, and only a small percentage of posters engage the substance of their comments. I'm not referring to the equally mindless snark ("EJ sucks!") but thoughtful dissents, like saying that the hiring of Marrone was a mistake, which everyone agrees with now. Funny psychology. What's the threat?