Koufax

And all game long there was no anticipation, no hitting a receiver as he made his cut. It was all wait wait wait and then either gun it or dump it. Terrible terrible game by Trent. The o-line and the running game and special teams almost made it a much needed win nonetheless. Also, why was there no attempt to get to the line and run a play after the reversed INT? Whether it was a catch or not, you try to get a play off, or is that not an option on change of possession (not sure on rules). As for bashing the play calling on the last three plays, I don't necessarily agree there. While I can't believe Trent ended the night not finding Evans once, when your QB is clearly having a terrible game and your 4th quarter running game yardage is: 18, 14, 3, 4, 6, 28, 1(TD) I think you can try to run it. Probably not all three plays, since I'm sure a play action would have helped more than that. Getting from a 52 yarder to a 47 yarder is nice, but I do think that your goal has to be to get a first down, and given the defense passing should have been part of that.

Highs shouldn't have been as high as we acted (4-0) lows aren't as low as they feel now. We are a young talented football team, and when things go right we are capable of being good, and when things go wrong our inexperience shows and we can look pretty bad. I'm not always a big DJ fan, but I think he will be capable of winning with this team. We were not in the playoffs at 4-0, and we are not out of them now. Realistically I think we are a 9-7 team at our foundation which early found a way to win some losable games, and now has found a way to lose some winnable games. 4-4 in the second half puts us at 9-7 which is probably about fair, but given our four quick wins and our easy schedule I think 10-6 is very possible. But 5-3 now is about right, and is only this disappointing because we were 4-0. If we split with NE we have a decent shot at the division, and if we get swept by NE we never had a shot at it. A lot of football left. One game at a time with a lot of optimism, and we will see what happens. A lot of band wagons one could get on, but I'm happy being a Bills fan, and like having a nice young talented team sitting at 5-3.

I think McKelvin remains a great pick. Have to wait and see what he will contribute over his first five years (the way winning teams evaluate picks), but I don't think we had any evidence then or have any now to put anybody higher. As we become a better football team we will have to shake off our bad decade, and realize we aren't drafting to cover our weakest position with an immediate starter each time, but instead trying to get the best football players we can get and evaluate their contribution over five years not 1. Youboty has gone from useless to star in year 3 (granted he wasn't the #11 pick). I am still very happy with McKelvin, and am excited at what I think he can do to help this team win football games over the next five years, and his contribution will start this season...

I really like our team, and I really like our chances to be in the playoffs and hopefully try to win some games once there, but I think the only week 2 ranking that matters is that we are 2-0. I would personally put us around #10, and think #5 is very high but entertaining. If it has any impact at all, I think we would be better off being behind the Patriots* and still underdogs until we either have a better record than they do or until we actually beat them in week 10. (they have won 20 consecutive non super bowl games and are pretty good even without Marsha). I am looking for validation in the standings and in Foxboro and the post season, not in the eyes of the media. Go Bills.

and pretty impressive as a LT/RT combo...that helps too

12-4 is possibile and 8-8 is possible. There is a lot of football ahead of us, and I like our chances of being a playoff team, but expected results 15 weeks out is always going to be a stretch. I'm just hoping we win the first game we are supposed to win and move to 3-0 after the Raiders.

How do you figure? Let's walk through some percentages... Let's go ahead and be generous and call the extra point 100% and take out the minute chance of a miss. What is the percentage chance that the Broncos convert the 2-point conversion? What is the percentage chance that they win if the game goes to overtime? I think that the chance of winning of the game goes to overtime might have favored the Broncos slightly, especially with the emotional blow to the Chargers in the final seconds, but realistically it would be about 50/50 right? Two evenly matched teams who scored at will and played an evenly matched 38-38 game with two evenly matched kickers. Probably not exactly 50%, but something pretty close and not too many reasons to think it is significantly different (Chargers have an edge in the return game which would work against the Broncos slightly too, but I digress and I will leave this at 50%). What is the likelihood that the Broncos convert the 2-point conversion? If it is greater than the number we assigned to the above question, then they should go for two. Generally in recent experience the success rate in the NFL is in the neighborhood of 50%. But given conservative coaches in general, I think that this could be assumed to include a fair number of desperate gambles when teams need the 2 points, not when they think it is the best risk/reward. So the high powered 36 completion, 350 passing yards, 4 passing TDs Denver offense vs. SD defense of that day is probably better than the typical 2-point conversion situation to put it lightly....the same pass D that 7 days earlier gave up 23 completions for 247 including the game winner. I'm going to put in a make believe conservative 55% here. I realistically think it would be a bunch more than that, but it doesn't need to be for this argument. So in my mind: #1 Chances of Broncos winning if they go for 1 and play OT: 50% #2 Chances of Broncos winning if they go for 2 at least 55% So unless one or both of my numbers above is off that the first number above is GREATER than the second number, then NOT going for two would have been the dumb risky move. Giving up a better than even chance at winning a game right there to a 50/50 hope you can pull it out in overtime. I don't know if Shannahan felt all "Gambler-ish" and daring, but I very strongly think that when you actually think about it there is nothing actually daring about it, and it was simply the decision that gave his team the best chance for a win. I guess it was gutsy because if they missed it it would be "his" fault and if they lost in overtime they could blame the coin or something, but in terms of his team winning the football game it was the most rational logical choice. I even go so far as to say it is a little embarrassing that the majority of head coaches would have made a mistake and kicked the extra point, and all of our journalists think that going for it was taking a big risk.

Um...I am not worried. He is a rookie on a team with multiple veteran receivers. We did not have anything in their red zone all day pretty much, when he would have been most likely to be used. And he would have been more obvious than Denny on the fake FG despite being no taller I look forward to some serious contributions from him, McKelvin and others who didn't do much on Sunday as the season progresses, but I don't think we have any urgency or reason for alarm. Rookie receivers can sometimes take a while to get going, his strength is his size and not his polish, so he would take a little longer to hit his stride, and he also had the hamstring setback keeping him away from reps. I don't think he will take multiple years like Youboty, but I am not sounding any alarm bells heading into week 2.

Yeah, Randy had a great look at it from 40 yards downfield trying to pick up the ball he dropped. I do not root for any injuries, even to Brady. It certainly brightens the Bills season, but let's just move on and worry about ourselves and not be the bunch of jerks singing "the witch is dead" before finishing 7-9 again. We don't face the Pats until the second half, so our attention should be completely focused on the Jags and getting to 2-0.

All the reshuffling? Meaning benching some guy who isn't really good, and moving RT Langston Walker to the easier position he played 16 times last year instead of the harder position he doesn't know? And putting a Pro-Bowler at the position he plays well enough to qualify for the pro bowl at? For as mad as I am at Jason for the distraction and missing the first game, I don't think that putting Chambers at LT for one game after not practicing there makes sense, and I don't think they will have a tough time going back to how things were last year for week 2. Let's go get the 'hawks with the 53 we have playing where we have been playing them, and then start putting the pieces back where they belong on Monday to be even better for next week.

As much as it tried my patience, I am back to have him back. He made one big deadline (reporting before the season started) and missed on big one (reporting a week ago so he could play in the opener). If we lose a close one to Seattle on a blindside sack-fumble-touchdown or something like that this wound could take a while to heal, but if we beat Seattle and Peters plays in week 2 this can be under the bridge pretty quickly. What matters now is Peters > Chambers, which is good news. Having him here the whole time would have been even better, but it is what it is. Glad the distraction is past us before the season starts, and hopefully the fallout (team morale, Chambers playing a game, Peters being behind physically or playbook-wise) are minor. But things are without a doubt better than if he had stayed away and Chambers started 16 games.

I too am nearing this point myself. If things change we will see how much can be forgiven and forgotten, but right now I'm fine going with who we have, and watching this blow up in his face. I hope the Bills hold the hard line whatever happens.

NO! We couldn't have taken on the Steelers without Angelo!

It is Thursday. Peters is the same as if he had suffered a season ending knee surgery. He isn't here, the Bills can't expect him any time soon, and they have to try to win without him. I think he officially can kiss the Bills Fan Love goodbye, and I will remember and boo and now look forward to him no longer being a Bill. I might be in a minority, but he has moved from a power play of trying to get more millions by skipping some meaningless practices in the summer heat to hurting his 52 teammates (and helping one 53rd person who now gets to suit up!) and everybody who roots for them in real and significant ways. So long Jason, let us know if you feel like playing football for us at some point in the future and we will see what we can do, but you are in Ricky Williams territory right now, so enjoy your bongs across Asia or your bar-b-que across Texas, or whatever it is that your 340lb butt does when not on the football field.

Skipping training camp as a pro-bowler: uncool but understandable, all forgiven down the road Not being at practice Tuesday before the season opener: completely uncool, and starting to build up the bad blood that will not go away ever. In my mind as of yesterday he has moved from being a greedy guy playing the business game to take care of his future to being a loser who is hurting the chances of his entire team and every Bills fan of accomplishing something special this year. Maybe I should wait until kickoff to really get mad, but this weekend we moved from a pre-season holdout to a regular season hold-out, and those are completely entirely different animals to me, and I don't think he knows what he is getting himself into.

I would like to offer a second on the BOOOOOO, and officially apologize to all members of this board for posting to a Peters thread. But I will take sick-one-of-the-best-nfl-talents talent over "chemistry" all season long, and I don't care if he reports Saturday afternoon, I look forward to Jason playing and him being gone much longer only hurts us.

I'm normally a Pyrite Gal fan, but no reason to turn a joke thread into another serious Peters thread. BOOO!

Can't buy it, so a little different. I gladly pay MLB 20 bucks a month all summer to watch games, but as a San Diego resident don't have any way of watching the Bills live unless one of these kind folks puts up a link Stealing what you can buy to save money is a little different than viewing what you cannot buy but would gladly pay for if offered but cannot. Still not totally above board, and just as not-law-okay, but seems a little different on the morality side.

Exactly. While I am disappointed that he is not in uniform and am concerned it will hurt our team especially early in the season, the reality is almost in the Allen Iverson "practice" stuff, we are talking about the pre-season, and as long as he is in uniform and ready to go in week 1 all will be forgiven.

I don't think we will have a QB controversy even if JP blows up Indy on Sunday. I was a big JP supporter, wish him well, am glad to have him as a backup for as long as we will, am disappointed he didn't work out, and think he could be successful for another team if some of the missing pieces click. That being said, he is out of his starting job and the train has left the station. It would take a prolonged injury to Trent and some amazing surprise performance over a long stretch for the door to open at all. The issue with JP is not his attitude or his arm or his legs or his upside. He has oodles of talent and when he is on it is incredible. The issue with JP is being able to make quick consistent decisions and throw the right pass with accuracy consistently. I agree with things turning on the Jacksonville game, and that really was his do or die moment. But whether that was the right time to move on or not (I'm excited about Edwards), it is the decision that was made. NO AMOUNT of small sample size brilliance can make up for the demonstrated failure in consistent decision making. The only two things that could make JP the starter are a change of scenery or being forced to play multiple regular season games because of an injury and absolutely lighting it up with better than expected consistency. So until you hear "Edwards" and "crutches" and "4-6 weeks" in the same sentence there is ZERO chance of a QB controversy outside of the Buffalo News regardless of the performance of JP in any preseason game. Of course I didn't think Rob Johnson would have started against the Titans, so I could be wrong

Right, but if he can get an Adjustable Interest Only loan and if the market keeps rising and he can refinance and take out equity based on the appreciation before the loan resets he could make it work...no wait that's the housing market...

I agree that Walker is better than expected and Dockery worse. It is exciting to think that Walker should be pretty impressive as a RT when (not if) we get Peters back, and our line could be pretty impressive across the board. Although was it Fowler or Preston who was bull rushed onto his behind on that JP sack inside our own 20?

#1 flaw with this forum is the lack of official-ish threads. I don't mean they have to be Official Threads endorsed by the NFL Players Association, but it would be cool if a given topic could stay in its own thread when there is one. My compliments to The Big Cat...

I'm pretty sure Soprano saw him at the airport...

Arm strength: Jeff George > JP Losman > Tom Brady / Joe Montana / Trent Edwards > Pennington / Holcomb Joel Zumaya > Billy Koch > John Rocker > Mariano Rivera > Greg Maddux > Jamie Moyer I think it should be pretty clear that if Trent Edwards fails it will not be because of a lack of arm strength. His arm is weaker than JPs, but JP has come up short for reasons completely separate than arm strength. I think arm strength is really fun and cool, and Elway and Favre and Cunningham were so much fun to watch, and often helped their teams with bullets or bombs. But once you reach a competent NFL level, it becomes secondary to other factors. I don't think that arm strength will have anything to do with whether Trent will be Tom Brady or Todd Collins when all is said and done, and think this is a red herring. I also don't think arm strength is even the most important factor in throwing the deep ball. Timing and precision matters a lot more. It is very very rare to get enough protection (other than a hail mary) to have receivers outrun the range of ANY NFL quarterback. Evans said it well that he just needs to get more comfortable throwing it. Most deep balls are thrown 30-50 yards downfield which pretty much any NFL quarterback (and me...go me!) can throw. The balls that go over 50 in the air are rare and secondary to winning. I think arm strength actually has more of an impact on mid range thread the needle passes.