folz

The guy is a class act period (read the WGR interview). Haters can stop hating now. Thanks Ryan for the Cincinnati comeback, the Raiders comeback, The New England game...thanks for helping Stevie, Scott, David, etc...thanks for giving it your all and being a true Buffalo Bill, embracing the team, the fans, and Western New York. I'll continue to be a fan. Good luck to you and your family.

If you pro-rate Vick's 10 games out to 16 here is how his stats from 2012 compare to Fitz: Comps. Vick 326 Fitz 306 Comp. % Vick 58.1% Fitz 60.6% Avg. yards/play Vick 6.7 Fitz 6.7 Comps. over 20 yds. Vick 43.2 Fitz 44 Comps. over 40 yds. Vick 6.4 Fitz 7 Yards Vick 3,779 Fitz 3,400 TDs Vick 19 Fitz 24 Ints Vick 16 Fitz 16 Fumbles lost Vick 8 Fitz 6 Sacks Vick 44.8 Fitz 30 Yds lost on sacks Vick 244.8 Fitz 161 Rush yds Vick 531 Fitz 197 Rush TDs Vick 1 Fitz 1 QB rating Vick 78.1 Fitz 83.3 Team Record Vick 4-12 Fitz 6-10 I thought we were looking to upgrade Fitz...where in all of that does it show that Vick is significantly better? NO to Vick!

I'm not saying Fitz should continue starting. I'd love an upgrade just like everyone else. Just pointing out that he's not as bad as some are making him out to be. Average stats as a starter is a big difference from 3rd stringer. And he makes for a good insurance policy. I have definitely been a Fitz supporter, but I was also supportive of drafting a QB last year. If we had, we wouldn't be in this place now, we'd already have a young guy ready to take the reins this year. For that matter, I wanted to draft Kaepernick the year before. But we didn't, so I supported Fitz and really thought he could get it done. But he didn't. I don't think it's all his fault, there was coaching, the horrible defense, injuries, etc. But he wasn't able to put the team on his back like a Franchise guy can and that's what we all want. So, the team needs to be proactive in finding that guy, but Fitz isn't even the worst starter in the league let alone a third stringer (as one person said).

That's right, I'm going to defend Fitz... Now, I'm all onboard with trying to find that QB of the future, a franchise guy (even if it means drafting two QBs this year, whatever it takes)... And I'm fine with those saying Fitz would be a great backup but they don't want him starting (that's reasonable). But to those who are saying that he is absolutely horrible, shouldn't even be a backup (3rd stringer at best), etc. Well, I just have to assume you are not the "so-called" realists on the board. So, what is reality? Yes, I'm going to bring those damn stats into the discussion... In 2012 Fitz ranked: 18th in yards with 3,400 16th in completions with 306 18th in completion % with 60.6 (QBs with at least 100 Atts, i.e. starting QBs) 13th in TDs with 24 8th in Ints with 16 In 2011 Fitz ranked: 11th in yards with 3,832 6th in completions with 353 10th in comp. % at 62 (QBs with at least 100 Atts, i.e. starting QBs) 10th in TDs with 24 1st in Ints with 23 What do the stats seem to say? Fitz is an average starting QB in this league. Of course, we all want better than average, but to say he's not even good enough to be a backup is just ridiculous. The two things that jump out is that his stats regressed in 2012 and that he has thrown too many INTs over the past two years. But, with the defenses we have had, we were always playing from behind and Fitz had to force it more, which leads to picks. That doesn't excuse him from throwing that many picks, but it does factor in. By the way, Fitz's annual salary in 2012 ranked 18th among starting QBs. About where his stats rank him. So, if the FO got him to restructure, I would be more than happy to keep Fitz as backup and even let him compete for the starting job. What if we whiff on drafting a QB. Then what? And what FA could we bring in that would be a significant upgrade to Fitz? You could make a case for Alex Smith maybe (although I'm dubious of that) but after him, who? Fitz is a team guy, not a prima donna, so I don't think there would be any disruption in the locker room if he doesn't start. I would trust him coming into a game if the new starter went down. And not only is he smart, but he's been in the NFL 8 years and has started 74 games. How would that experience not be a help to a young QB learning the ropes?

As to the permission issue, the Jets could decline not because Rex is vindictive, but because they don't want one of their top coaches to go to a division rival where he could not only be a good coach for the new team, but also have a huge window into what Rex does and how to try to counter it. If the Bills can't interview him until sometime in February, they'll probably look for someone else rather than wait as 7 other teams will be trying to build a staff as well. Then Pettine could go anywhere else, but not be in the division facing Rex twice a year. (Guess it's a moot point now per Kelly's post above)

Since Marrone is an offensive coach I trust he will (and has the contacts to) hire the best guy to run HIS offense, so my thoughts (like many others) are on who will be the DC. In many posts today, there was much talk about Lovie Smith as both a head coach or DC. But as Others have pointed out, he ran the Tampa 2 Defense. We have switched defensive styles twice recently when we didn't have the personnel for it. So, if the Bills and Marrone are smart and want a quicker turnaround, they'll look at the roster (the players they want to keep at least) and say what is the best system to fit the players we have. Then go get the best DC they can to run that system. It would seem with our D-line and the need for LBs (having to get 3 rather than 4), we would stick with a 4-3 defense. So, does that preclude Lovie or other Tampa 2 or 3-4 alignment coaches from the DC position? If so, who are the top 4-3 DC candidates out there? Or 4-3 coordinators who have ties with Marrone?

Late to the thread as I was on the road all day, but... Great Post! Agree 100%. The change had to be made, but I do appreciate all that Chan did do and tried to do for this team even though it ultimately didn't work out. And how could anyone gripe about what he said...He just got fired by a team and then holding back tears he says he'll still pull for this team. Despite his record Chan will always be a Bill to me. I know I will continue to pull for Chan as well, wherever he goes!

From a purely talent stand-point (not weighing in coaching/schemes), I think the Bills once again overrated some of their own players (as they have with the WR and other positions for the last few years), on defense... They thought Aaron Williams was ready...he was not (not sure if he'll ever be) They thought Sheppard was ready...nope (and no back-up plan) They didn't even really have a 2nd OLB (so not even an A plan) While I love G. Wilson and think he is a talented player, he is not that punishing type of Strong Safety that's needed. When you add in that Marcel was underperforming due to the tragedy in his family, Mario's wrist, and Anderson ending on IR, then with hindsight it's not difficult to see what went wrong. Pressure was lazy from one side and we were soft up the middle (Dareus, Sheppard, Wilson) with a CB on the outside who was vulnerable and LBs (being young and undisciplined) not staying in their gaps. For many teams, the intimidators, the punishers on their team are the middle linebacker and strong safety... think Ray Lewis, London Fletcher, Polamalu, Ed Reed, etc....Shep and Wilson aren't that. Plus Shep was the QB of the D...maybe he just wasn't good at that aspect of the job either (getting everyone where they needed to be). So, going forward, I think Brooks has a chance of filling the outside corner spot. McGee is done, McKelvin should be back-up. I wouldn't play Rodgers out of the slot and have no confidence in Williams. We need another CB, so we have a plan B if Brooks doesn't step up next year (or just to compete for the job). LBs: I think Barnett would be fine if he had 2 NFL starting caliber LBs to play alongside. So we need at least 2 but maybe even 3 or 4 new LBs (I want depth as well as new starters) and at least one of them has to be an enforcer. (WOW have we missed on LBs in the draft: Tank, Sheppard, White, Moats, Harris, Bowen. Granted in the last 5 years, the 7 LBs we took we're taken in rounds 3, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, and 6) Strong Safety: We need a bruiser back there, that can still cover. That's not Wilson and I'm not sold that Searcy is the answer either. To fix this D, we need 1CB, 2-4 LBs, and a tougher SS.

Don't let them go! Byrd Levitre Moore Nelson Should also keep: McKelvin Rinehart McIntyre I feel like everyone else could be easily replaced. With the exception of maybe Colin Brown (back-up center is valuable), but I feel like I haven't seen enough of him to really judge one way or the other.

I doubt we get the 3rd pick: Jacksonville 2-12 NE, Tenn (still to play) Kansas City 2-12 Ind, DAL Philadelphia 4-10 Wash, NYG Raiders 4-10 Car, SD Detroit 4-10 Atl, Chi Tenn 5-9 GB, Jax (5-9 if they hold on against Jets tonight) Cleveland 5-9 Den, Pitt San Diego 5-9 NYJ, Raiders Carolina 5-9 Raiders, NO Arizona 5-9 Chi, SF So, we can't catch Jax or KC Titans: I could see going 1-1 to be 5-11 (losing to GB, beating Jax) Raiders: Could probably go 1-1 or 0-2 against Car and SD to end up 4-12 or 5-11 Philly: Could lose 2 against Was and NYG to go 4-12 Detroit: Could go 0-2 or 1-1 against Atl and Chi to be 4-12 or 5-11 Cleveland: Could lose to both Den and Pitt to go 5-11 San Diego: Could go 0-2, 1-1, or 2-0 against Jets and Oak to be 5-11 to 7-9 Carolina: Could go 1-1 or 2-0 against Oak and NO and go 6-10 Arizona: Could go 0-2 against Chi and SF to go 5-11 So, if Bills lose out, most likely scenario would be (if I guessed outcomes accurately) something like: Jax 2-14 KC 2-14 Philly 4-12 Raiders 4-12 Detroit 4-12 Tenn 5-11 Cleve 5-11 Arizona 5-11 Bills 5-11 San Diego 6-10 Carolina 7-9 So, my best guess is the Bills will pick between 6 and 9.

Can any team snatch defeat from the jaws of victory like our Bills? How many times can we basically control an entire game only to give it away at the end of the 4th? Just pathetic...and I'm one of the optimists!

The biggest problem I have seen with Fitz this year is his lack of intensity/confidence on the field... The reason Fitz won me over as a fan was that never-say-die attitude, throwing blocks for your running backs, gunslinger mentality, field leadership. This whole team was behind Fitz last year. Something has definitely been off this season, either changing the mechanics has him too much in his head, that big hit from London last year spooked him (ala TE with the hit in the AZ game), or it's just a basic loss of confidence, I don't know. But, Fitz has not played well or been a commanding persona on the field. As far as his throws...I disagree with the notion that Fitz can't throw the deep ball (i.e, bomb). We've seen him do it before...to me it seems to be a timing with his receivers thing instead. Only 1 deep ball was underthrown this year that I remember, most were misses over the top. In my opinion, the throws he has traditionally had trouble with are the deep outs. That's where a lot of his interceptions occur. Those are the throws he was missing in his game and I thought Lee was going to help him fix that. Seems he hasn't fixed that but made everything else worse. And the coaching staff keeps calling those types of throws. I know you can't take those out of your arsenal all together, but they should limit those throws if Fitz struggles with them. Of course, there are no excuses, as Fitz would say himself, for the bad misses in the short passing/screen game. And yes, they need to start hitting some of the deep balls to soften up the defenses... so they should be working on that hard. But, it's time for Chan to tell Fitz to forget about all of that mechanics crap and just go out and play with some fire again. And despite his short-comings or how he has played so far this year, I'm not giving up on Fitz yet (call me crazy, homer, whatever). Do we need to draft a QB for the future next off-season? Yes. (Although, I think we needed to do that whether Fitz played well or not.) But do I think Fitz can still turn his season around and get some of that Fitzmagic back? I think he can. And I say it starts this week...I think he will have a very good game this week, go into the bye, and then come out swinging in the second half of the season. And in lieu of that, I'm changing my avatar in support. It's time for opposing teams to fear the beard again. I could say Fitz sucks and then if/when he does again feel good that I was right, or I can root for the guy and hope he improves. For better or for worse, depending on your opinion, Fitz is our QB this year, let's get behind him and root for him rather than attack him. And when the time comes, depending on how the season unfolds, we can discuss any changes that need to be made. But calm down with the 500 Fitz sucks threads. Honestly, how is that helping anything? One or two threads to get some frustrations out and discuss what's wrong, fine...but this board is just destroying the poor guy. Does he need to play better, yes. But the whole team does as well. And I'm going to be rooting for each of them to do so. I'm rooting for success rather than expecting disaster and will deal with the outcome later, whatever it is. I still think we can win WITH Fitz, not despite him. Come on Ryan, get that killer instinct back and start leading this team again! I still believe you can! Ok, you can tear me apart now.

I had a good run in the 80s Celtics '81, '84, '86 Orioles '83 (I stopped watching the NBA so I can't count the most recent Celtics championship) And then I had a 20 year drought until... Syracuse (basketball) 2003

Bowe would be another weapon that defenses would have to worry about. I don't think they're worried about Donald and T.J. Teams feel they can cover them one on one. But, if you have Stevie, Bowe, Chandler, and one or both RBs in on a play, all of a sudden they can't squat on the short routes or consistently bring their safeties in the box because anyone of those guys can get upfield. If you leave either Stevie and/or Bowe one on one all day, I guarantee Fitz will look a lot better and throw for a lot of yards (so stop the who's gonna get the ball too them crap) and if you try to double them both or cheat your safeties to them, then the running game becomes wide open. And then they have to cheat to stop the run and all of a sudden the passing game is open again. One, extra, legit, dangerous target (that a team has to gameplan for) can totally change how defenses play us. I doubt we can land Bowe, but you never know, none of us thought Mario would come here. Who knows, maybe with the Chan connection and Stevie talking him up...But if he really is available for a trade, I think the Bills should pull out all of the stops to get him (especially if the other option is him going to a divisional rival).

As long as it's as successful as wax on, wax off, wax on, wax off was...then me and Mr. Myagi will be happy. I can just see Merriman standing in crane position, all focused, waiting for the snap. Anyhow, I'm glad he's back...my expectations for what he will add on the field aren't as high as when he first came obviously, but I agree with others, he might be just what this defensive locker-room needs. And if he produces on the field, all the better.

Absolute hose job as usual...I've been watching football for 35 years and in the thousands of measurements we've all watched, I have never seen a ball that far from the stick called a 1st down...Never. Angle, my eye. You could have done a 3-D panoramic, 360 spin around that ball...it still wasn't a first down.

With all of the recent talk about leadership and mental toughness... Who's rallying the defense on the sideline during games? With so many young guys (Shep, A. Williams, Gilmore), humble guys (K. Williams), quiet/reserved guys (M. Williams, Dareus), etc. who is rallying the D? We don't have a Ray Lewis type-player. And Gailey is more focused on the offensive-side of things. So, is there a coach on the sidelines who can pull the D together or do the players just go to their position coaches? Being in the booth didn't help the Stache come up with an answer for what New England was doing last week. It didn't seem to help him make the proper adjustments. So, why is he there? I know in the past (with other teams), I've seen him somewhat animated on the sidelines...he's not a Rex Ryan or whomever, but maybe being more interactive with the players on Sunday---congratulating them when they do well and pulling them together when things aren't going right, just being in the middle of the action, maybe that would help with the leadership issue somewhat, at least on the defense. So, should Dave get out of the booth and onto the field on Sundays?

Can we at least wait for game 2 before we fire Chan and retire Fitz? I know that Jets game looked bad and it only added to the hangover from the end of last season... but, you can never judge a season by the first game. We won a blowout to start the season last year and ended up 6-10, while the Giants lost 28-14 to the eventual 5-11 Redskins but went on to win the Superbowl. Now, I'm not saying we're going to win the Superbowl, but let's at least wait a few more weeks to see if week 1 was an aberration, or who we are. And if we still look terrible after 4 or 5 games, then go crazy with the fire Chan and bench Fitz talk, but give it a couple of weeks to see how it plays out first. Maybe that first game lights a fire under the team that unfortunately wasn't there yet in week 1.

How about rooting for Marcel Dareus this week, a talented player who just lost his brother, yet he's gonna be out there fighting for his team (and his brother I'm sure). What about George Wilson? He had to fight and claw his way to stay in the league. His passion level is at the same level as Fred's. And he's worked his way up, changing his position, to become a top safety. How about Spiller (as others have mentioned)? A top pick, who has been a patient, team guy...doing and saying the right things, now he has his opportunity to shine. How about Kyle Williams? The guy has never ever taken a play off. He's a beast who almost everyone doubted early on. How about Mario Williams? Our big FA acquisition? You could root for him to prove his contract. How about Stevie? A 7th rounder who is now talked about in Fantasy circles and on the national media on a regular basis. Plus he's a pretty darn good WR. I could go on and on...honestly, what do you mean there is no one else to root for with Fred out. (Of course, you root for the whole team and a win first and foremost). But, I mean, Fred is one of my favorites too; he's even on my fantasy team...I was devasted to see him injured. But football is a team sport and the Bills happen to be a very likable team that has a lot of guys with great stories and passion. So, there are plenty of individuals to root for. And once they start winning, it will be easy to root for the whole team.

I'm going to pick David Nelson. Jones and Nelson are both 3rd year receivers...the traditional year that it really starts to click for wideouts; and they have both been in the same system with the same QB for all three years. They could both really come on this season.

Not yet. I do think Gilmore is going to be special, but he'll have his share of rookie mistakes this year no matter how good he is. I'm not sure about Aaron yet...he looked vulnerable in the preseason, but it is only his second year, first year starting, so he may come on during this season or next season. But too early to tell. I agree with mrags that I think eventually Brooks will be the better corner than Williams. So, maybe in another year or two if they all develop as we hope, they could become one of the best young secondaries with Glimore and Brooks on the outside, Williams in the slot, and Byrd, still relatively young, in the backfield.

This deserves one of deepthroat's "YEAH!'s". Great post.

I EXPECT TO WIN! And so do the Bills! Let's get some positive mojo going here on this board. It's a new season, we're 0-0, we have a new defense and a better D-coordinator. Wood is back under center. Stevie's groin, Fred's foot, and Fitz's ribs have healed. Gilmore is the real deal. Kyle Williams is healthy and a beast. He and Mario, Dareus, Anderson, and Kelsay (yes I said Kelsay) are going to wreak havoc; our offense is just waiting to bust out...mark my words, Fitz, Fred, Stevie, Chandler, and Nelson are all going to have big years. Yes, we still have a few holes, but every team does. Last year's slide is just that, last year. And the preseason is just the preseason. And the last 12 years count for nothing anymore. Have some faith for God's sake. Just as Chan rid the team of the loser mentality, time for the fans to lose it too. Fitz is going to make sure that Revis has to eat his words about Stevie. Sanchez will spend the day looking at the clouds. Tebow will be praying on the sidelines (rather than after touchdowns) hoping not to come in the game against our D-line. Their RBs ain't gonna do squat; their defense is very good, yet Freddie is still going to run wild over it. The baby is coming folks...his due date is September 9th, the wagons are circling, the stars are alining, and we'll be "talkin' proud" again and "Shouting" once more. We're baaaaaaaaaaaack! Let me close by saying, "What the f%ck happened to the Bills fans I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? This could be the greatest season of our lives, but you're going to let it be the worst. Oh, we're afraid to go with you Folz...we might get in trouble. Well just kiss my ass from now on. Not me. I'm not going to take this. Sanchez, he's a deadman! Tebow, dead! Ryan..."

What makes this more curious was the team experimenting with having the safeties make the defensive calls during the Minnesota game, a role usually reserved for the MLB. The experiment didn't work and the linebackers will indeed make the calls, but why did they even try it? http://blogs.buffalo...ign=blog_header Is/Was Shep not doing a good job as the defensive QB? Or are they worried about him starting for some other reason? Ergo the Morrison experiment as well? It could be he's just not playing up to expectations, making the right calls, etc. but I wonder if it has anything to do with the undisclosed ailment or whatever he had earlier in training camp. Usually the only time a team doesn't disclose something is if it is a personal issue or an unusual health issue like Easley last year... http://forums.twobil...e__hl__sheppard What if they aren't sure of Shep's health/personal issues and they are too nervous to let a young guy (McKillop/Carder) make all of the defensive calls and so you have the safeties and Morrison experiments. Obviously, as others have said, it could also just be that since Moats overtook Morrison at OLB then they have to decide whether to keep Morrison at all (which if he can play two positions its a plus for him) over some of the young guys. Either way, rather than taking it as a knock against our coaching staff, it reminds me of why I like Chan and his staff... the depth chart is always up for debate, always up for competition. They aren't afraid to drop someone, even if he has a name and/or good draft position, if he's not pulling his weight and they aren't afraid to promote a young or unproven guy if he is out competing the vet in front of him. And if something is wrong he at least tries a number of things to fix it rather than just accepting it (as it seemed that past regimes did). [Looks like Hopeful beat me to the punch in discussing the defensive playcalling issue]

Hope you're all willing to jump back on the Fitzwagon when it circles around again... and get used to that girlish squeal, I think we'll be hearing it a lot next year. I know the 2nd half of last season has made everyone cautious/nervous, but for almost half a season last year, Fitz held his own with the best in the league. At the time he was top 5/top 10 in most categories. Sure he has to do it for a full season, but... After 7 games played last year: ------------Comp.-------Att--------Comp%-----Yds----YPC------TD-----INT Fitz..........155..............229..............67.68.........1,739........7.7.........14............7 Brady.......184..............272..............67.64.........2,361........8.5.........18............8 Brees.......182..............299..............60.86.........2,477........8.3.........18............8 If Fitz had the same number of attempts as Brady (extrapolated out) he would have had 2,070 yds, 17 TDs and 8.3 INTs. So, his stats were very similar to Brady's, the only descrepancy being YPC which leads to the extra yards overall. Maybe having a legit deep threat will help that. If he had as many attempts as Brees,it would be 2,278 yds, 18 TDs, 9 INTs. And don't forget that was a record setting year for Brees. Now, of course, I'm not saying Fitz is as good as these guys, but I think the end of last season made people forget just how good Fitz was actually playing at the beginning of last season. And I hate to sound like a broken record, but I just can't understand those who don't think losing your starting and backup LT, starting C, starting RB, starting TE (for a while), and half your receiving corps didn't affect Fitz's play. And that doesn't even take into account his cracked ribs, Stevie's groin injury, and a porous defense. I mean at points last season, he was throwing to a QB and RB playing the WR position and guys basically signed off the street. Honestly? None of that mattered? It's just Fitz sucked because he's always sucked. Really? The guy has proven he can do it and the team is making sure he has all of the tools in order to do it consistently, a new QB coach, another year of continuity in the system and with his receivers and O-line, better defense, better depth. Sure the guy will never be a HOFer, but he's proven enough to me to drop the "journeyman" "career backup" titles that so many still attach to him. I may be in the minority, but I think Fitz is gonna have a big year.