folz

I agree that a lot will be riding on whether the OL and QB can play well this year... And I have always said that Jauron's biggest weakness as a coach has been his selection of OCs. But, in his defense (as far as his game plans or playing not to lose) look at the QBs he has had over the years (Miller, JP, Trent--who even if he turns out to be good, he was a rookie and 2nd year player so far for Jauron and young QBs make mistakes). Jauron hasn't had elite talent on his offenses with the Bears or Bills, so maybe in that situation you have to play it safe. Would you as a coach give JP the green light to sling away like Favre, Brady, or Manning? How about Miller? How about Trent as a rookie? Part of the FO's job is to get us excited about new players and the season to come to where maybe we (at least the homers) have overestimated our talent level and expected too much from the O. But maybe Jauron didn't have much choice but to play it close to the vest because he knew all too well about the true talent level of the team (especially the O-line's ability to protect the QB for enough time, no proven 2nd WR, etc.). Just because you want to open it up, doesn't mean that you can. Like it or not Jauron's our coach for this season. Let's see what he and Turk can do with some improved talent... and if they can't do anything, play too conservatively and lose then the change will be made. But let's suck it up and give him one more chance. The only other choice is to remain bitter. Spartacus, what I think you overlook with posters like that is they are not saying Walker is equal to or better than Peters as a player, but that Peters played way below his potential last year and that Walker should at least play up to Peters' play of last year. Unless you think we got Jason's best last year. So saying there won't be a drop off isn't speaking overall talent-wise, but from an improvement or drop-off from last year. Its like when people say whoever plays OLB will be a dropoff from Crowell, but Crowell didn't play last year so from last year to this its either a push (Ellison for Ellison) or improvement someone steps up and plays better.

I'm not saying we couldn't use more talent, but I definitely think you underrate some of our players as well as the FO and coaching staff. Josh Reed is better than mediocre as a slot receiver, I think Fine and Nelson will be the TEs over Schouman (or Fine and Schouman if Nelson doesn't come on), Ellison and Kelsey may not be full time starter material, but there is no way they are garbage, and Simpson won't be the starting FS, it'll be either Byrd or Whitner. Plus, so many of our guys are young with a lot of potential...Lynch is still getting better, Evans production should increase significantly, TE should get better, Poz should get better, the rookies will get better. There is a lot of unproven talent on this roster that give this team a lot of upside. I think your ratings will be significantly better by the end of next season. Here is my take: OFFENSE QB.Edwards=Average (but I think he'll move up to good this year) RB.Lynch=Good (but Lynch, Jackson, Rhodes as a group could be great) FB.McIntyre=Mediocre WR.Evans=Good (with possibility of moving up to great with T.O opposite him) WR.Owens=Great (Has been elite, but is he still? I'll leave him at great) WR. Reed=Average to good (he may be mediocre as a 2nd WR, but in the slot he'll be pretty good) TE.Fine, Nelson (not Schouman)=Mediocre (I think it'll move up to at least average, but they still have to prove themselves) LT.Walker=Average (I'll leave him there until we see what he can do on the left side) LG.Levitre=? (w/ lots of upside) C.Hangartner=Good RG.Woods=? (w/ lots of upside) RT.Butler=Average DEFENSE RE. Schobel=Good DT.Stroud=Good DT.Williams=Average LE.Kelsay=Average (sure Kelsey isn't great, but he ain't garbage either) OLB.Elison=Mediocre to average MLB.Posluszny=Average (with upside) OLB.Mitchell=Average CB.McGee=Good CB.McKelvin=Good already (with upside) CB.Florence/Youbouty/Corner=I think the best of this group will turn out to be good FS.Byrd/Whitner=This should at least be average SS.Whitner/Scott=Average to good Coaching Staff=Average to good (Sure they aren't Bellicheat-elite, but how many coaching staffs in the league would you consider garbage? one or two maybe...so mediocre would put Jauron et al as bottom 5 coaching staffs in the league? I think they have a lot to prove, but Jauron has to at least be middle of the pack don't you think? Especially if the whole point of your post is that they don't have enough talent to work with) Front Office=Average to good (Counting since Brandon took over: Two good drafts, Stroud and T.O. in FA/trade, etc.)

It seems to me that the idea that the AFC was weak in those days was because the NFC had won a string of Superbowls (often in a blowout) and many of those years you could argue that maybe the 2nd best team in the league (or 3 out of 4 of the top teams) were also in the NFC. But top to bottom AFC vs. NFC, there wasn't that big a difference. And as others have stated, outside of the four Superbowls, the Bills dominated the NFC (as well as the AFC) in regular season games. The way I see it: 1990...no doubt Bills were the best team in the league, but lost the SB due to partying, overconfidence, and an excellent coaching job by the Bills (Parcells and Bellicheat that is) At that point...the league, especially the NFC started moving to a strategy of building big lines and now the league also had a blueprint to beat the K-gun, if they were talented enough to do so...which most still weren't 1991...I still think the Bills were the best team in the league, but the stars did seem to align for that Washington team and their new Hogs (big O-line) were a bad match-up for our undersized D-line. Then came Dallas...and as much as I hate to admit it Dallas probably was the better team 1993...Dallas best in the league, Bills were still probably the second best team in the league 1994...the Bills window was starting to close, as players had been lost or aged (as happens with all good teams) this season they weren't one of the very top teams anymore, but they still had a lot of talent and I really think they willed themselves to that Superbowl where they were again killed by Dallas (again because of Dallas' big linemen on both sides of the ball who were able to control the line of scrimmage). But don't get me wrong, the 1990s Bills teams WERE that good...one of the best (top five) offenses in the history of the NFL, the best DE in the history of the NFL, the best all-purpose back since Jim Brown, at least 6 deservedly Hall of Fame players, they revitalized Special Teams in the NFL (at a time when ST was an after- thought to most teams)...they beat the same Giants team they lost to in the Superbowl just 3 weeks before that Superbowl and they beat Dallas in a regular season game the season after their first SB loss to them... the 1990s Bills definitely were not just beating up on weaker teams, they were damn good.

So according to those numbers, if Fred were to play out this contract, broken down into years it looks like (not counting undisclosed incentives): Year 1: $2,300,000 (including signing bonus, roster bonus, and workout bonus) Year 2: $1,925,000 (including bonuses) Year 3: $1,675,000 (including bonuses) Year 4: $1,880,000 (including bonuses) Total= $7,780,000 or an average of $1,945,000 per year, but he'll get 4 and 1/4 million dollars over the first two years (not counting incentives which could push that higher). That seems fair and should take care of Fred and his family for life if he manages his money well.

For those old enough to remember the Bills Superbowl years well, that team was not just a great football team but they had a bond with the fans and the community...they weren't just doing it for themselves but for us fans as well. There was camaraderie between the players on the team and between the players, coaches, organization, and fans. Its what made that time special and why we love the Bills so much...that blue collar all for one and one for all attitude... Donahoe had just lost a power struggle in Pittsburgh and then gained full control in Buffalo. He dismantled a team he could have built on giving us 2-3 years of total rebuilding. He struck out on his coaching choices not because Ralph was cheap but because he was going to be damned if he was going to let another coach usurp his power (so he wasn't going to bring in a big name). And as things started going bad he became more paranoid and developed a bunker mentality to the point of being beligerent in press conferences and then confiscating fan's signs and having fans ejected from the stadium. I never felt lower about the Bills than Donahoe's last year. In the atrocious mid 80s fans wore bags over their heads with derogatory comments about Ralph, but they were never tossed from a game or had to give up those bags. Levy was brought in to bring the fans back, to give us a better feeling about the team, to feel like we were apart of the team again and not that the team was against us and in that I think he was completely successful. Sure if you're just looking at football moves you could probably make a case for either of them being worse than the other (even though I would still give the edge to Marv being better...lets see what Trent, Lynch, Poz, Whitner, and Jauron do this year) and sure Jauron isn't the best coach in the league but if you can't see how much better he is than Greggo and Mularkey (no nickname needed) than you're just crazy. But if you're looking at the jobs they were brought in to do, Donahoe was a major failure on all counts while Marv (even if you think he did bad in the talent aspect) did accomplish his main job.

I agree that another good DT could help put us over the top...would love to see McCargo become that guy but that's a huge question mark. Bringing someone in (like Henderson or whoever) would be huge, but even if they don't we still have the chance to be a top 10 defense. We were 14th overall last year and with guys coming back from injury, more experience for the young guys, a better offense (hopefully), and all the new additions, its in their reach. And even if Ellison starts again this year (hopefully Harris or Thomas can step up), I would agree that our LBs as a group would be average, but our depth at LB will at least be greatly improved with DiGiorgio coming back and the new additions. And Kenwick, yes, we were #1 in Special Teams last year http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...de.38f0fd2.html

I still don't understand why they didn't give Hamdan a try/start during the last couple of games last year when Trent was out, our season was over, and JP was stinking things up. Maybe it was to be fair to JP and give him a chance to shine for other teams (knowing we weren't going to keep him). But it seems like getting Hamdan some game experience would have been a good thing for the team (and we fans might have a better take on him). That being said I feel pretty good about Fitzpatrick...lots of game experience and ok with his back-up role.

Great post Porksword, I was going to say something similar (and I love the avatar too)! Watching highlights of Wood and Levitre during and after the draft, one of the things that stood out to me was that they both could pull...(and I think I heard that of Hangartner too)... And dreams of screens, couter treys, and sweeps danced in my head...I mean when is the last time we've been able to run those types of plays successfully? If we have so much trouble with the great NTs in our division for God's sake let's run some plays away from them, to neutralize them a bit. Intelligent, nasty linemen, who can pull and LOVE to play the game...there's hope yet for our Bills! Not to mention Kelly's around to give TE some pointers...while Turk can rely on Wyche if they do go with a no-huddle. Nice article Tim...actually laughed out loud at "droptastic Robert Royal"

Russ may or may not turn out to be a good GM (or whatever his title is) but he has more experience than you give him credit for (even if it was in baseball first). "Brandon joined the Bills in November of 1997 as Executive Director of Business Development and Marketing after earning a World Series ring as a member of the Florida Marlins front office. He began his sports business career as a member of the Rochester Red Wings (Triple A affiliate of the Baltimore Orioles) serving in many capacities, including assistant general manager." He also played four years of college football, even if it was for lowly St. John Fisher... You could say he stinks because his experience was in baseball or marketing...but he was more than just a glorified intern from a community college.

I too thought Jauron would have and probably should have been fired at the end of last season...but they didn't do it, nothing I can do about it...but Brandon isn't going to say well we had to keep Jauron, so let's just leave everything else as is and go 7-9 again... I think they had to take a chance and shake things up...whether it works or not we'll have to wait and see. And the continuity they spoke of was probably in keeping similar schemes for their players (especially their young QB) not keeping all of the same players. It's not the FO's plan to go 4-12. I think Brandon and Jauron are thinking about and planning on winning this year, I just meant if we were to go 4-12 this year because we had to have a number of rookies starting or playing significant time, I'd rather see that (if the rookies were talented and going to get better making us a better team down the road), then hang on to players who were never going to help get us there. (And for the record, I don't think we will go 4-12...I guess I was just overreacting to posters who say we aren't going to win if we have to play 5 rookies) Sure, franchises and fans want their players to be good guys (as do I), I hate all the off the field issues our players have gotten into and hopefully the team and players can change that... I don't think Brandon is ok with these issues...but the "character" that Levy and others are talking about is football character: heart, love of the game, good work ethic, will to win, etc., etc. What TO has and Peters seems to lack. The message sent to the team is produce on the field up to your contract and be a team-first guy or you're gone...(the lone exception to that of the players who are gone or on the trading block of course would be Roscoe...but I can understand that too with the # of WRs on the roster and other players who could take over PR duties)

Good, get rid of the dead weight...show the players and fans that mediocre isn't going to be good enough anymore... As much as I want to see a playoff game, I'd rather go 4-12 this year if it makes us a real contender in the near future (with a good draft this year)... stauts quo meant another 7-9 season...we weren't just one or two players away from the Superbowl...by all means shake it up! And we needed as much of a change in attitude as we did in talent and hopefully these moves, even if they are just fishing or posturing (along with getting rid of Peters, Dockery, Royal, etc.) will send a big message to the team and help accomplish that.

All last season there were posts saying we need to get rid of dead weight players like: Fowler Preston Losman Royal Kelsey (if he goes) And I agree, so no real lose with any of those guys... I really don't think we lose anything with Dockery either. Crowell didn't play at all last year, so as far as looking at if the team is better or not from last year...it really doesn't matter because he didn't play...but again, I don't think he is as much of a loss as some others think...I was never that impressed with him and to hear him now tauted as a stud by some on the board seems laughable to me. Peters (like Crowell) how much worse is the team than last year...well considering his season last year I don't see how we could do that much worse. Sure, if he would have played up to his abilities this season, its a big loss...but he didn't want to be here and I'm not sure he would have played up to the "best LT in the league" if he did stay and play for the Bills this year. So, the FO got some nice picks for him...good move because we were never again going to get Jason's best (not to say Philly won't) Greer...big loss, loved the guy...wish he could have stayed, but for the money we would have had to pay and with McKelvin already on the team, the move was in the best interest of the team, you don't want to have too much of your money wrapped up in CBs. As we've all stated, we had three 7-9 seasons in a row...change had to come...keeping continuity was about keeping the same schemes/leadership not all of the same players if they weren't performing (that is if the continuity thing wasn't just an excuse to keep Jauron). So, what did we really lose...Greer (with McKelvin in the wings) and Peters (if he would have played his best which was a big "If") What have we added before the draft? TO...makes the team better Hangartner...cannot be worse than Preston and Fowler...makes the team better McKinney...good depth Florence...good depth/flexibility Rhodes...makes the team better (not just for suspension time but in case of injury to starting 2) Fitzpatrick...better than JP, will have better relationship with Trent than JP...makes the team better Thomas...good depth/flexibility So, I would ask do the above 7 players add equal or more value to the overall team (talent and heart-wise) than Greer and Peters? My answer is yes, so I give the Bills a B grade at this point, but also agree that they need to do well in this draft to maintain or increase that ranking.

I'm not debating that Jason has a ton of talent...he does, but being the best in the NFL is a lot more than talent or size. It takes commitment, heart, team unity, strong work ethic, etc. Does Peters have all of these qualities? Maybe, but there is definitely some doubt in my mind after last season... Now with this doubt, would I sign him as the highest paid lineman in the league...probably not. It never really bothered me when Bruce Smith would complain about his pay because I would say well he IS the best in the game (apologies to Reggie White)...you knew what you were going to get from Bruce every play, every game, year in and year out, but right now I can't say the same thing for Jason, no matter what the media says...hell they thought Willis McGahee was a HUGE pickup for Baltimore, but as we all knew, Willis lacked many of those intangible NFL qualities. So, to spend the kind of money Peters was asking would have been a big risk for the team (if they were questioning his heart, or drive, or work ethic, or desire to play for the Bills). Now, could Peters go to Philly and play awesome for many years to come? Sure, but how many on this board would bet that he plays at the caliber of the best LT in the league for say the next four years. Would you bet $1,000 on it? How about twelve million a year? Love of the game makes great players, and players will take slightly less to stay somewhere they want to be. If Peters would only stay in Buffalo if he was made the highest paid LT in the game that says to me it is more about ego with him or feeling as if he's been slighted by the team or wanting to go to a proven winner, in any case it calls into question if he really wanted to be here. And why would anyone want a player on their team that doesn't want to be there. Do you think you'll get his all, all of the time? I wish things could have worked out and we kept Peters, but after last year there had to be some compromise from Jason's side, not highest paid or else...there is no way his holdout didn't hurt the team last year and they weren't going to go through it again...with new players on the O-Line this year they need to start getting some continuity as quick as possible and a Peter's holdout would kill that. And I also wish the compensation was higher, but we don't really know what goes on with NFL deals...just because someone on a message board or in the media says he's worth a 1st and a 3rd, doesn't make it so. Tim's article did say the Giants were also interested...I think the deal with Philly was the best we were going to get. So I'm happy we got the extra picks and got rid of a player who wasn't thinking football and team (Bills) first. Yes, this could mean a half step back this year if we don't find someone to play LT solidly (which isn't a given one way or the other), but I think ultimately it was a good move for the future of the Bills.

A quick trip around Youtube will show you that police are using tasers way too often and under very questionable circumstances, people who at the time are causing no threat to the police, themselves, or anyone else around them. It seems like many police figure its not going to kill them so its no big deal, but it is a HUGE deal to the rights of your average citizen. The police aren't always right just because they are police...

I was assuming it was conditional on what contract the Bills could get TG to sign. If the Bills got Tony, they would have to give him a new contract. So the picks would be conditional per the contract he signs. If he comes for a one-year trial deal like TO, then KC gets a 4th and a 6th. If TG comes and signs a 3-year deal, then KC gets a 2nd rounder. I don't know if NFL trades ever have these conditions, or if that is what was meant by the original poster, but that's how I read it. Of course they would have to get KC to agree to that deal, which if there are other suitors who TG wants to play for and who will pay TG what he wants for a long term deal and will give up more than say a 4th and a 6th (if TG would only sign a one-year deal with the Bills) then Buffalo would be out of luck. So, I doubt that deal would ever happen but I would still love to see Gonzales in a Bills uniform... ...as for TG turning down the Bills previously, if that is true, it was before the TO pickup which could change his mind. Not saying there's any truth to this rumor, but one can dream can't one?

I still can't understand why anyone would want Cutler...

I think the discrepancy is between Bills fans in the Buffalo area and Bills fans in the Rochester/Syracuse area. Growing up in Rochester, you root for Buffalo Bills football and Syracuse Basketball...they are Rochester's unofficial or borrowed home teams...and that Cuse game was awesome last night..."let's go Orange", but maybe Buffalonians don't feel the same affinity to the Orangemen. Now living in New York City, I have had this debate with a lot of New Yorkers...and my perspective is that Upstate New York is from north of Yonkers to say Albany and Saratoga Springs...Northern New York is the Adirondack region and North...Central New York is say Schenectedy, Utica, Rome, Oneida...and from Syracuse west is Western New York, cause that is where the eastern shore of Ontario cuts the state--creates the part of New York that sticks out to the west... but maybe its all just a matter of perspective as to where you grew up or currently live.

Seriously, how many times in a season does a QB throw a ball more than 50 yds in the air? Even the best QBs with cannon arms? Most bombs are probably 40-50yds in the air and then the WR running 10-25 or more yards into the endzone. You're on your own 35 yard line, the QB heaves the ball, the wide receiver catches it in stride at the 15 yard line and runs it in for a touchdown. (50 yards in the air) How often is a QB going to have to do more than that? I'm not saying arm strength isn't a benefit, but as others have said, I think arm strength is over-rated as a judge of NFL QBs and if Trent can throw a 49 yard pass that is on the money and is out in front of the receiver so he can catch it in stride (as seen in the video) then his arm strength is good enough to get it done in the NFL. Whether all of the other intangibles come in to place for TE to become a very good NFL QB...well, that's what we'll be watching for this season.

I'm actually surprised that so many people think he's a lock. I'd say he has a chance but in no way is a lock. He's been playing amazing and the way he handled the blitz and got the ball out to his receivers on the run today was impressive, but by no means has he single handedly turned the Cardinals around. Right now he has imo the best receiver in the NFL and when not injured probably the 3rd or 4th best receiver as well. Their defense has also played some great ball and they have a head coach in his second season. Somehow, I think the coaches must have had something to do with this turn around as well. Alot went into the Cards being where they are, not just Warner (who I do agree is a big part of it though). Warner does not rank in the top 20 all time for completions, yards, or TDs. I just have to agree with gus2378, I don't think 4 great seasons is necessarily enough to get in the HOF...It seems like to get into the Hall you have to have at least one of three things: top (all-time) stats, consistently good play over a long career, and/or you changed the game in some significant way. I don't think Warner, right now, meets any of that criteria. Superbowls definitely help and hurt candidates, but I don't think going to 3 Superbowls automatically makes you a lock. Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Phil Simms, and Jim Plunkett were all Superbowl MVPs and Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, and Jim McMahon all also won Superbowls...but I don't see any of those guys making the Hall...there are only 29 QBs in the HOF from the entire history of the NFL...I've been watching football since the mid-1970s and in those 30+ years only 12 QBs were considered HOF material...is Warner an excellent QB, yes, but is he in that company? I'm not so sure.

Since we didn't get any (probably needed) changes in the front office or coaching staff, here is my list of needs for 2009: (In order of importance...flame away) 1. Center (The guy touches the ball every offensive play, he makes all the line calls, he anchors the line...just ask any QB how important the center is to the offense. Another reason for Center being first is that this may be one of the hardest ones to get, there aren't a lot of great centers running around) 2. Turk needs to throw out what's left of the Fairchild/Jauron play-not-to-lose offense and come up with a more aggressive offense that uses the talent we got (Lynch, Jackson, Evans), and he needs to stand up to Jauron when he wants to be too conservative, without being stupid of course (see The last Jets game). Then we just have to hope he becomes a good coordinator, now that he has a year of experience under his belt. [i think Jauron's biggest weakness as a head coach is not being able to choose good offensive coordinators and/or handcuffing them to a conservative game plan.] 3. I debated between whether this should be 3 or 4, but I'll go with the pass rushing DE 3rd. 4. Almost was #3, but we do need to get a top strength and conditioning coordinator (Mularkey may have done more damage to our team than Ralph or Donahoe by canning Rusty...imho one of the biggest loses since losing Polian--including player loses). 5. As much as my heart might say, yeah trade Jason "I play for the Pro Bowl" Peters, we need to sign him soon enough to make sure he participates in all off season training and is relatively happy. (Maybe this is too low, but I'm still mad about his hold out and I think they'll pay him, but if you're gonna do it for gods sake do it soon and get it over with) 6. Pass catching TE. Nuff said. Actually I need to say one more thing: Please Release Royal! 7. OLB...would go higher if we don't retain Crowell (not to say I'm sold on him or Mitchell, for that matter, but we could probably get by with them). 8. Perry Fewell also needs to step up and instill an aggressive nature in his Defensive players. Jauron doesn't seem like he could ever instill that killer instinct in others, so Perry has to step up and get his guys fired up every game, give them a swagger and an attitude. Play the strict dad/bad cop to Jauron's grandfatherly/good cop. 9. Experienced back-up QB. Of course there are other areas we could upgrade or improve depth, but, I think if the Bills accomplished most of those items, not saying they will, then Jauron could be a successful coach next year. So, probably the biggest question in my mind is can and will Turk come up with and call a better, more aggressive offensive plan (and will Jauron allow it)? [P.S. Unfortunately, I'm not holding my breath for the strength and conditioning coach because they probably won't make a change.]

I was a supporter of Royal until today... I agreed that we needed to upgrade the position, but I didn't think he was as bad as most on here thought..."he had a few miscues here and there, but"...well, no more excuses after today's performance. For as good of a blocker as he is supposed to be, he hasn't seemed to help the run game, and in passing situations, if we can't send him out for a pass anymore (which we shouldn't) but use him just for pass blocking, then it means one less thing for the defense to worry about because they know he's not a threat to run a pass route. I don't blame Royal for today's loss, but I did lose faith in him coming through in a clutch situation when the team needs him. So let's see what Schouman and Fine can do...

Jax supposedly has a great directional kicker...I'm just guessing like everyone else, but I assume it was in case the Jags decided to kick away from Terrence. Without seeing Fred there, we might have caught them by surprise as Freddy would have jumped up fielded the kick and taken off...I'm sure the blockers were prepared to block either direction.

Just got back to this post...Thanks Philster and 34-78-83!

Does anyone know where to go to find the after game player interviews? The official Bills site used to have an audio section, but it doesn't look like they have it anymore. And they only have video interviews of jauron and Edwards. Does one of the local radio stations archive the interviews? Thanks

12 team/IDP league... I took Lee Evans in the 5th round, Donte in the 10th, and Trent in the 14th (to be my backup QB) Lynch was long gone, although I would have loved to draft him.