C.Biscuit97

You’re right. Allen is the only qb in the history of the nfl to have receivers drop passes. Our receivers aren’t good and Allen isn’t always accurate. It doesn’t have to be mutual exclusive. But a 52.2% completion rate isn’t 100% on receivers and I pray Allen doesn’t thin kthat way either. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232 the dropped passes are holding Bortles back! Again, it’s valid to point out drops. But it’s goes both ways. P.S. the Chiefs are 5th. Imagine Mahomes Adjusted completion %!

Fair points. This is what I’m struggling with 1 - I get told Daboll is a good OC. Shouldn’t a good OC get more than 15 points/ game, no matter that talent? 2 - I think player development is huge. The fact that Zay Jones isn’t more productive is a problem for us. 3 - mullens is their 3rd strong qb, their top two wrs are always injuried, yet he has a 96 QB rating and multiple 300 yards games. Why can’t our offense be more productive? I thought Allen looked super poised and delivered some good footballs. But man, it seems like it’s lot of work for us to score 2 tds.

Zay Jones was a beast in college. And as good as Thomas was, why was the 47th pick? And I think you would agree he’s not the same player on the Jags as he is on the Saints. but as others have said, it’s probsbly in the middle. What do you think? Who makes the other more - wr or QBs? The guys who picked Allen, traded up for Zay and he was drafted higher than the guy at OSU! I’m not a big Zay myself but if him and JuJu switch teams, Zay probably is a lot better (though I do agree JuJu is the far superior player and it’s ehy I wanted him badly in the draft).

Good post and I agree. I definitely agree we need to get Allen better weapons. At the same time, I’ve seen great qbs make average talents into elite players. In theory, I want Allen to do that and he’s done great with Foster. but I’m all for the Trent Edwards’ treatment of having TO and Lee Evans for Allen.

Their passing numbers are very similar. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoseJo01.htm i also think the talent around them is very similar. The Cards oline is terrible, Johnson lacks explosion, and Fitz is the only good receiver they have and he isn’t the same. I will say say that I definitely expected Rosen to be further along than Allen and that clearly isn’t the case. So that’s good on Allen. Long way to go and both will need to get their qb ratings out of the 60s.

Come on KTD. Gordon was a 2nd round pick in the supplemental draft and Dorsett doesn’t even play after being a total bust for Indy. Edelman was an UDFA college qb and hogan played lacrosse. Again, Michael Thomas was picked later than Zay. These guys are elevated because of their qbs. Like i said, Allen has done a great job with Foster. I do think Allen is progressing but I think we just look to blame all the problems on the receivers and it’s a bit unfair. Sorry, I haven’t become a full member of the Allen cult yet. I looking at brochures though. its not all mullens but they found a way to get a lot of production out of an after thought in the draft. Also, Mullens (UDFA) had a very good game beating Seattle where Kittle was their 3rd leading receiver. Honest question, are the 49ers weapons that much better than the Bills? Or are they better at getting more out of their talent?

Who was a 5th round pick who had 700 yards in 4 years in college.

Oh I did. And that was more of a passing comment. But it I am getting a little tired about hearing how terrible our receivers are. Who is Nick Mullens throwing to? The Pats don’t have one receiver picked in the first round on their roster. The Saints have a bunch of nobodies next to Rhomas, who was picked after Zay. At some point, the qb needs to elevate the receivers. That said, Allen seems to have done that with Foster and that’s great to see. But he is far from the only qb playing with questionable talent.

They all did - Caldwell, the Chargers GM, Polian’s son. Polian hooked them all up. The nfl jobs are about who you know. Todd Haley was a college golfer but his dad worked for the Steelers. I feel bad for the coaches that truly grind without a connection.

My god. What a silly premise for a thread. Since I played college football my opinion (it should ) should count more than people who didn’t? What a dumb statement. jim kelly wanted the Bills to draft Tim Tebow. Michael Jordan is considered one of the worst owners in sports. Belichick played D 3 football. Polian played club football. i know it is party time (and I’m happy) that we scored 2 tds to beat the lions. But it’s amazing some of you don’t get why Allen was criticized as a prospect. He wasn’t that good at Wyoming and these type of prospects fail all lthe time. Let’s hope for the best but it’s way too early for a victory lap.

I mean that’s the guy I would want. SM wasn’t my first choice (wanted an offensive guy) but he has had some elite defenses. I would lose my mind as a fan if my team hired Daboll and I saw his resume. As as others have said, if Allen and the offense have a great year (or Polian gets a job because they are friends), he will get head coaching looks. But we score 2 tds a game.

I didn’t go through this whole thread but does anyone have the list for all qbs in this category? also, as a former receiver, if the ball hits your hands, you’re so supposed to catch it. However, some qbs throw more catchable passes than others. You don’t need to throw a fastball every time. Great QBs have the ability to throw the fastball and touch passes.

Yeah, it’s a completely different era now. What Marino did was like Babe Ruth did in the white major leagues. He was so superior to his peers. But when Matt Stafford gets multiple 5,000 yards seasons, maybe it’s not that impressive anymore.

I mean if he can’t, we need a new qb. The league is begging you to get a lot of yards throwing.

I think he should. But that’s mainly because I want to see how a fan base reacts to getting a head coach h who just “led” the second worst offense in the nfl. I’d be thrilled personally.

Rivers is really good but he always has those type of mistakes that keep him from being one of the truly elite guys.

And that’s why I think Allen is a part of how you evaluate the trade. If Allen becomes at worst a solid starting nfl qb, the trade can be acceptable. If he has a JP Losman career, it’s a complete disaster no matter how good Tre White is (and he is borderline great). And you can say hindsight but isn’t that the whole job of a nfl gm?

But this is why I thought Mahomes was different than Allen 1). Reid. He chokes in the playoffs but he is one of the best offensive coaches of the last 20 years. If we had Reid pick Allen, I’d blindly trust it. I don’t have the same faith in SM and Daboll. Sorry. 2). College production. It definitely doesn’t mean nfl success but if you’re a first round qb, I want to see you dominant. Mahomes did and Allen rarely did. 3) Mahomes elite skills, which Allen as has. 4) sitting behind a vet. I was never a big Tyrod fan but he would have been a great guy for a young qb to sit behind to start their career. we disagree about this a bit but I always appreciate the perspective and I genuinely hope White and Allen turns out to be a good trade for us.

Exactly. When you’re 4-9, you made some mistakes.

They picked Tre white and a 1st over a second year record setting qb. Is that better?

Come on Alpha. This is complete hindsight. The Giants were a 9-7 SB team who was carried by their defense. Rodgers had playoff games where he scored 45 and lost! How in the world can he be blamed and knocked for that! youre better than Alpha. I promise if Allen loses a playoff game where he leads us to 45 points, I will anoint him as a god.

I definitely got the air raid concerns but he had special physical skills that past Tech qbs didn’t have. I was a bit worried about Watson’s arm but those Bama games sold me.

The thing is McDermott and Reid are pretty close I think. If Reid was trading up, maybe McDermott should have just said no thanks because Andy must really like this qb.

It’s going to take a lot of money. I like him but I don’t think he is a number 1 and he will be very expensive.

Come on man. You’re better than that. SB rings? So Eli Manning is better than Aaron Rodgers? Marino and Kelly were worse players than Joe Flacco and Trent dilfer? Or they played on good teams? its really hard to win the SB. Fluke things happen, like your star rb kicking a girl. Mahomes is looking like an MVP on an 11-2 team. But come on with judging guys on just SB wins. Blake Birtles almost went to the SB last year. I’m tough on Allen but he could have a very good career without winning a SB.