dave mcbride

Kinda fitting that he signed with the JAGs.

Not saying this will happen at all, but God help the Pats if Jones goes down for a substantial period of time. Hoyer cannot play NFL football at a remotely capable level anymore.

Actually a fair point. He had a decent and long albeit disappointing overall career.

This is kind of a ridiculous argument. Who was the last truly good LSU QB since Bert Jones? Who has Tenneseee produced besides Payton Manning? Florida? Auburn outside of Cam Newton? Michigan outside of Brady and possibly Harbaugh? UCLA outside of Aikman and maybe Billy Kilmer? USC outside of Carson Palmer? Ohio State? Wisconsin outside of Russell Wilson? Texas? Texas A and M? The only schools that have produced at least three good-to-excellent QBs going back to 1960 are Stanford (Plunkett, Elway, Luck, Brodie), Alabama (Bart Starr, Namath, Stabler, all in the HOF), Purdue (Brees, Griese, Len Dawson, maybe Jim Everett), Cal (craig Morton, Rogers, maybe Bartkowski, and maybe Goff, who has had a couple of great seasons so far), Oregon (Fouts, Van Brocklin, and I’m gonna go out on a limb and say Herbert), and maybe Washington (Moon, Brunell, maybe Chris Chandler [who did have a couple of great seasons]). Maybe BC too (Ryan, Flutie, Hasselback). A lot have two (eg, ND with Montana and Lamonica; Miami with Kelly and Kosar; Ole Miss with Archie and Eli Manning), but most storied programs have no more than that and often only just one.

Running backs tend to get injured, so I won't be surprised if he plays a role.

2 TDs and 4 INTs -- a rate that's par for the course for him.

Whether it's deserved or not is immaterial -- Cam Newton is a genuine celebrity, and none of the other guys getting cut or traded are. This was totally predictable.

I just checked the Raiders' box scores. Peterman actually did play ever single snap at QB in all three games. Weird.

He played a lot better than Byrd ever did after getting paid.

Totally agree. A Belichick-led organization wants no part of that. Non-great players don't get any slack when they threaten to inject any degree of disorganization/chaos into the season.

Alright, enough about Cam. Let's get back to the main topic of discussion: PFF graded Jones as having the best ST performance in the entire league in week 6 of the 2013 season: https://www.pff.com/news/the-third-phase-week-6.

Dean has actually come quite close to saying this, actually. I have no problem with that; strongly held opinions are always fine on a message board. Straight from the horse's mouth (Dean): "Nobody has proved to the coaching staff that they are in the same league. If/when they do, I imagine Taiwan will be gone. So yes, at this point in time, I have to assme he is head and shoulders above some of the others being considered."

I thought you were talking about the one we scored. My bad.

Their kickoff return for a TD was on an onside kick with a minute to go and the game over, and it was by actual starter Micah Hyde who stupidly decided to run it in rather than take a knee. Fitz came out gunslinging (no surprise there) and in the last minute of garbage time marched Miami most of the way down the field over a half dozen plays. The Bills had gotten nicked up in that game, and I was thinking the whole time that another injury might well happen. So I don't count that one as legit.

The legend of Taiwan Jones, Gunner God, is reaching epic proportions now!

I've made my position clear about interchangeability of non-kicker ST players as long they're functional runners, blockers, and tacklers and intelligent enough to consistently execute their assigned role, but has anyone considered that the 33-year old Jones may have actually lost a step and/or started breaking down? Now is the time when that sort of thing happens in players' careers. Careers are short in this league for fringe players, and he's living on borrowed time anyway at age 33. I'm not saying he's in physical decline, but if the Bills don't keep him, that may be a reason.

I get that, but Brady could--and still can--make those throws and do it well. If all you have to do is defend the middle of the field, the flats, and bombs, it makes it a lot easier for a defense. I am not saying Jones can't make those throws; just that I haven't seen them. Everything has been short stuff, mid-range stuff between the numbers, and the occasional deep loft.

The Bills are not cutting Beasley.

You don't have to read the thread. There are others.

He was actually having the best season of his career in 2018 but midway through the season had a rotator cuff injury which he has never recovered from. That shoulder injury is why he can't make throws anymore. It took away a core part of his game.

To be fair, that leap was pretty damn impressive! Maybe not so good at the game of football, however ...

I strongly agree with this. Their defense is probably going to be quite good too.

Agree, but unless I've missed it, I have not seen him throwing ropes on deep outs outside the numbers. Good QBs can do that, and it really opens up an offense. Don't get me wrong; NE's run game is probably going to be elite so they're going to be a tough out.

I don't think they quit. I think that a really, really bad play happened that was pretty flukish. And then they started playing poorly even though the score was still 13-13. First, they started getting dominated on the left side of the d-line by Eric Williams. And Jeff Wright didn't quit; he just blew the tackle. Kelly didn't quit; he just made a terrible throw it into double coverage on third down when it was 20-13. Dallas was a much more talented team by that point, and mistakes like that cost you games.

I get all that, but big errors on offense and defense are major momentum swings too. I don't think STs have any claim to pre-eminence when it comes to momentum-shifting plays. Indeed, on the vast majority of ST plays, nothing significant happens. As a number of others have pointed out, the Bills are not lacking in decent-to-good special teams players, but most ST players even on the best units are truly interchangeable. Since 2015 -- the beginning of the Rex era -- the Bills have one legit kick return for a TD (McKenzie last season). That's one in six years. (I'm not giving Hyde credit for his 2019 onside kick return vs. Miami in garbage time because it was really dumb and a freak play to boot. If he had taken a knee, the game would have ended. Instead, the Bills D had to go back on the field in garbage time and play another half dozen plays vs. a gunslinging Fitz at the risk of a needless injury.)