Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

When Butler left he stated the same thing, so hearing it twice have to believe it's true. And thats was during winning times too!

Yeah but it's mountain time!

From what I recall, the same thing happened the last time except maybe they used better words to describe it. The last time, certain coaches, like Gilbride were given permission immediately to look elsewhere. Others weren't giving permission to look around such as Rusty Jones. This year that already happened when they let the all the defensive coaches go. Maybe MM didn't cafe for Rusty as much as his buddy from Pitt and after a year Rusty was gone, but he kept his job for that year. Im certain this year, if they pick a new coach and he tells Marv, I've worked with Bobby April before, and we just hate eachother, and no way do I want him on my staff, then Aprils gone. The difference is by that point in time it likely would be too late for April to hook up with another job, so likely Ralph will eat his salary for next year. I think all it means is that the guys that are left Ralph and Marv feel they are highly thought of people, well respected and liked, and it would be surprising if who ever is picked, can't work with these guys and wouldn't want them on their staff. Sothey figure it's better to keep these guys around as it's not likely by the time a coach is in place, he'd find anyone better anyway.

As far as I knew Marv still had a house in Hamburg? Never heard he sold that??

I don't know, you could also view it as someone who has a lot of guts to walk away from all that money because he didn't like the direction the team was going in. Not sure his walking away would hurt him with other owners as much as his limited sucess here would.

Don't forget that TD worked for ESPN prior to coming here, so take ESPN's comments with a grain of salt

I heard most of it. It sounded like he was kind of sticking up for MM and was sorry to see him go. He mentioned how the fans in Buffalo are tough to please. I think he might have been responding there to the theory that MM is leaving cause of family issues. (I just turned it on as TS answered that question) Also sounded like he'd look carefully at who they hire to see how serious the Bills really are and what direction they are going in. He definelty didn't sound too happy that MM was leaving.

Didn't LeBeau wor kfor TD in Pitt? Is I'd think he would have known what he was getting himself into when he came here?

Didn't Marv cut Haslett when he was here? I spite of what Fred Smerlas might try to tell you, I'm not so sure that Has wasn't one of those guys that Marv got rid of as he consdered him a cancer?? (Along with Fred)

I really think that was Ralph being vindictive, rather than Ralph being cheap. Either way, he came across as a fool and that may have cost him his shot at HOF. Everyone seems to think that the reason TD hired unknowns was to prevent a power struggle like he had with Cowler in Pitt. And with the unkown, cam a lowe salary. So maybe it wasn't Ralph, but TD. We'll know the answer to that one in a couple weeks depending on who they hire.

Who said you're giving them a one year contract? They will likely be given three or even four year contracts. Other than the coordinators, doesn't make much difference as even if they come to Buffalo, and in a year MM gets fired, the new head coach wants a whole new staff, so they're let go. The new D line then would get paid by Ralph until they get a new job which likely would occur with in a year anyway. So at most Ralph pays them for a year.

Records obtained with totally different rosters. I'm totally convinced if we had hired either instead of Williams, right now they'd be ex head coaches of the Bills as they too would have been fired a year or two a go. I don't think anyone could win with the roster here in Buffalo. Yes there are some good players here, but the o-line mess has killed this team. The argument could be made that they were stornger personailities and wouldn't have allowed TD to give the mthe talent he did, but that's debatable. I think we'd still have the same team with a few exceptions.

But the problem is they aren't voted in by other owners, but by writers. Most probably weren't even born when Ralph loaned Davis the $$ They are nominated because of their contributions, but there's nothing to prevent a votor from casting his vote strictly based on wins. I do think that the last five years or so in Buffalo have hurts Ralphs chances too. Whether it's true or not, his reputation of being cheap has hurt, and he's held too many grudges. Lou Saban and Wade Phillips are two big ones that have hurt him. I'd like to see him voted in, but these things have hurt him.

Your concept if fine, but don't think realistic. You'll never get any kind of good skill players for that kind of $$. Granted, I agree with you that with a good line, you don't need the best RB or WR, but I think your number are too low, particually when you include backups. On the otherhand I do think you over spent on the O-line so may get some extra $$'s from there. The other problem yu'll run into is a guy like Preston signs his first contract within your numbers, But if he becomes any good, his next contract would put him over your allowable. I've always felt though that you're better off signing the best safety or best center in the league as you can aquire top level talent at those positions for less money than the top RB or top QB

Didn't someone here start a post the other day suggesting we should draft him?? He'll fit Marv's charator need real well! Vick Arrested

Umm... This trick was tried already two years ago by the Giants and the Chargers. For the Giants to go from the #4 pick to the #1 spot, all they gave up was I believe two #1's and two #3's (or was it #2's) Either way was a hell of alot more than Losman and the #8! Maybe if you also threw in this years #2 and next years #1, you might get them to at least start returning phone calls. And if we somehow were to make the trade, you're getting a guy who may go #2, but can just as easily be a bust. Besides McNabb, what running QB has come close to being great? (some people may say that statement excludes McNabb too)

So guy was Guy? I've heard he's a wise guy!

I'd go with offense first as it takes longer for those guys to devleop. In addition as the season wore down Anderson was starting to come on. And if you do bring Adams back, then not in terrible shape there. On offense, you need as many as two new players plus likely to start Preston as a third new starter. Maybe you move Williams to guard, then need one new one. I think this will be answered by who they can sign as a free agent.

At the time I thought I recalled that the Steelers wouldn't give permission to interview Whisenhunt as they planned on making him the OC, which they did. It does indicate though that Pitt viewed Whisnehunt as being better than Clements though.

As much as I'm a Bills fan, I have to admire the Pats. Tehy win with little fanfare. As Milloy stated, Super Bowl rings don't feed your family. Well you see where he is now. They rarly make the police blotter. They just win and whe nsomeone is gone, they replace him with someone else who fills that role.

You have a point there. It was that Onion loaf yesterday at Tony Roma's that did it!

What happened? I went to the bathroom, the score was 17-14 Cinnci, came back and 28-17 Pitt!!

Good to see you didn't say; "This is not Belichick" as he didn't do any better than MM in his first two years at Cleveland, 6-10, 7-9, followed by 7-9, 11-5, 5-11 in years 3-5. 1983 was Parcells first year, and the Giants were 3-12-1 followed by 9-7 in 83. So MM actually has a better two year record than both these guys. Am I saying MM is better than these two? No, but I am saying he could be and no one knows. But I do know that if you keep changing coaches every two to three years, you'll likely never get anyplace!

That really doesn't matter as even if they fire Gray tomorrow, if he gets a job next week paying equal or more, the Bills are off the hook. Or are you suggesting the Bill's aren't going to fire Gray at all and will keep him if he doesn't get a head coach job to avoid paying him?? I think Gray is finished with the Bill's one way or another. I think he's being kept right now as it looks a little better when he's interviewing to list himself as currently employed as the def coord of the Bills as opposed to a recently fired coord. So the Bills are doing him a favor, with the understanding likely that if all of a sudden the person they are looking at is ready to sign, Gray would be immediately let go. That probably won't happen though as right now with all the changes going on, no one like a Caper,s Hasslett, etc will take a coordjob until all the head jobs are filled. So Gray hangs arounda couple more weeks, then is let go. The lower level copaches were let go now probably so they have a better change to find a new job which would save the Bills some money. Plus they aren't currently being interviewed for a head coach position.

Maybe not micromanaged, but I find it more than a coincidence that many people commented how MM began to sound like GW. I think that's due to TD pullling their string on what to say and not say to press, fans, and players. TD seemed to live the 21 century management style very well which tend to be alot of smoke and mirrors. If MM didn't do as TD told him, he got taken out to the woodshed for a talking to. After awhile MM finally got it! I think that will make MM a better coach escaping from under that tstyle of managing. MM was 9 and 7 the year prior. If he's so bad, how do you explain that? It wasn't just due to an easier schedule. I belive anyone can look like a great coach when they have good players. Will Marv get him the good players, don't know, but it can't get much worse. While agree too that TD was a tireless worker, etc, but he wasn't a very good scout. Or at the least was to infatuated with the skill positions. I can'r say for certain that MM will become a great coach, but considering what he was given last year, a 1st year starting QB, an offensive line with two new starters, and a third for over half the year when MW got hurt, a defense that got old in a hurry, I can't say that MM is the problem. You just don't know. And changing course every 2 or 3 years due to impatience gets you know where.