BillsFanForever19

Say it with me people... Ed Oliver Won't Be Traded

Hey man, live your life. Believe the unbelievable. Hope for the unattainable. I don't know how it would be enjoyable to always get your hopes dashed because they're not based in reality. But do you brother. So often even the most realistic hopes lead to a let down. So I like to stay grounded in reality and the board I frequent not dissolving into nonsense. But maybe that's a me problem.

My dude - you are once again getting Madden level unrealistic. If we're able to get one guy from the list, that's huge. And I'm not convinced we'll even do that. But I'd be here for it. We don't keep 6 DE's on the 53. It's 5 max. And as I said above, Ngakoue will be one the first signed DE's and way more likely than not, to be a starter for someone. If we do this, it's going to be when the dust settles on the position and someone's willing to settle for the little we can pay and a situational non-starting role. There is zero chance we a.) Would pay the cost of an Ngakoue or Ingram to be our 4th DE, after bringing in the other to go along with Von and Rousseau (not to mention having already signed Shaq) and b.) That Ngakoue or Ingram would sign here to be the 4th Pass Rusher under Von, Rousseau, and either Ingram or Ngakoue. Both of those guys can start on other teams and would be accepting, at worst, the 3rd role for someone. I think getting one of them is unrealistic as they represent 2 of the top 4 available DE's I have in Tier 1. As I said above, I think either Houston, Quinn, Clowney, or Dunlap is more in line with a guy that will have to settle for the minimal amount of money we'd offer and the situational pass rush role we'd have for them. Getting Ingram alone would be a shocking massive win. Getting both of them is a fantasy.

Clark is a retched human being. Not a guy they'd bring into the locker room. Yannick (and Floyd) are the top tier of the available DE list. They'll be the first to be signed and will more than likely start for someone and be paid heftier than we're looking to pay. If we grab a guy, it's going to be who's left when the logjam gets settled and there's an option looking to settle for what we want to pay and the situational role we have to offer. Maybe that will be Ingram. But more likely a Houston, Quinn, Clowney, or Dunlap.

It's like fans that want Oliver traded and Edmunds before that. They can have their opinions and hopes for roster management. But if they don't line up with Beane's words and actions, they're deluding themselves if they believe the change they want is going to come. Like you said, Beane isn't looking to outright replace Brown. He's said it time and again. Just depth and competition. And not the type of competition that costs a ton and would be a replacement move. Whether certain fans agree with that or not is a moot point.

Shouldn't be hoping for a midseason trade. If we're doing that, it would be because one of our top options like Diggs got injured. If it were to happen, which it won't, this regime wouldn't want him coming in cold and learning the playbook midseason. They'd want him for the Offseason to get acclimated. McDermott barely felt comfortable using Hines much and RB is a much easier position to get down than the route tree for WR in our playbook. Arizona doesn't want to trade him. They don't need to trade him given their cap situation. They don't want to move him cheap. They don't want to take on any money as part of the deal. Beane moved on and Drafted a Receiving weapon in Round 1 and another WR in Round 5, to go with the the 2 other WR's we signed alongside Diggs, Davis, and Shakir. We have 6 WR's already etched in stone. We don't have the money. He's not interested. And Hopkins has raised the white flag and come around to Arizona. This is deader than a doornail.

Not a chance. He didn't completely tear his ACL and need a reconstruction like Tre. He had a partial tear and a repair. He's on pace to not miss any time. If they're overly cautious, he'd just miss a game or two. But from the sounds of Beane and him, he'll be ready Week 1.

That's just gas.

I mean, anything's possible. But I have to imagine Ditka was the #1 Pass Catcher on that offense. Going to be hard to duplicate those kind of numbers when you're playing on a team with Stefon Diggs amongst other viable targets.

Oh man - please tell me that you're not still looking at the ErieCountyBulls Twitter account 🤦

Morris was #54 and my last cut. Ultimately I decided that with Kincaid added, Gilliam could cover both FB and blocking on the line as a "TE" in certain packages that have Harris blocking in the backfield. I'd hope we could get Morris back on the Practice Squad, in the event of an injury to Knox, Kincaid, or Gilliam. Doyle having torn his ACL completely (as opposed to Von's partial tear and partial repair) and playing on it for an entire game on 9/27/22 - I imagine he'll start the year on the PUP. Spector is simply odd man out. Even Dodson was #53 for me and I had a scenario where we only kept 5 LB's and kept Morris. Ultimately, there's no room for Spector. We won't keep more than 6 LB's and he can't make it above any of the 6. Milano, Bernard and Williams (2 3rd Rounders), Klein, Dodson, and Matakevitch (ST Captain) all take priority. Much like Morris, I think we'd try and get Spector back for the PS. I could foresee (and in some cases borderline expect) the following scenarios that would change the roster in its current state: - Bates is traded for a pick and Boettger or Broeker is the final OG. - Another veteran OT being signed and Gouraige is off the 53. - Another Edge Rusher added and Basham is traded for a pick.

Lol no - for some reason when I linked to my Oliver post, it ended posting it above the link and spaced out. I've since edited the post to just be the link. Don't know why it did that.

I think anyone who has followed this saga and didn't see Beane shutting it down, the Arizona GM saying he's not trading him, not trading him on Draft Day, and the final coffin of Hopkins publicly coming around to staying in Arizona as this being dead is at the absolute least, completely delusional. As for where we're "top heavy", it's called better depth than we had. At RB, OG, and DT - we're in better shape than we were last season. And we needed to be given what each position gave us last season. You don't put yourself in a better situation and then say "eh, we don't need all of this, let's short change ourselves". RB is perfect right now. We've always carried 4 RB's on the 53. We have 4 RB's right now. Murray had a good year last year, but it was all in relief of injured players called up from the Practice Squad. At his age, that's what his role is right now. Cook, Harris, and Hines are going nowhere. OG was one of our weakest positions for years. We lost Saffold and brought in McGovern, Torrence, and Edwards. We now have a Starting calibur OG no matter the situation. Why would you want to change that? Even if we were to move, say Bates, it would have nothing to do with Hopkins. As for DT and specifically Oliver, that's not going to happen either. Oliver isn't going anywhere. I spoke in depth about why here: https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/247138-poona-ford-signing-with-the-bills/?do=findComment&comment=8388259

It's not a confirmed fact that the league looks at him as just a situational pass rusher this year after starting every game last season. That's just your opinion. And based on recent history, that's an opinion that isn't based in statistics. There was a log jam of available talent surely asking for large amounts of money and a number of teams that would address their need at DE in the Draft. Him being available now has more to do with that than meaning no one thinks he can start anymore. Now that the Draft has ended, teams that weren't able to land a high pedigree DE will revisit the list of those available. Ngakoue is in Tier 1 of that list. Surely not all of them will get starting roles. But Ngakoue will assuredly have better options for more playing time elsewhere than rotational behind Von Miller and Greg Rousseau, even in the event he doesn't start the season on the top of someone's depth chart - which I still believe is likely. Again, with the role we're offering (if were even looking at DE at all, after bringing back Shaq and Miller on pace to not miss any time), it's going to be for someone who is desperate for pennies on the dollar. Of that list, Ngakoue is one of the, if not THE, least likely option to become desperate.

Yes, that's his legit account and he unfortunately unironically tweeted that. The tweet is probably another reason why he's still out there. Not a smart move. https://nesn.com/2023/03/patriots-isaiah-wynn-sets-free-agency-price-with-bizarre-tweet/

QB - Allen, Allen RB - Cook, Harris, Hines, Murray FB/TE - Gilliam WR - Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter TE - Kincaid, Knox OL - Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Torrence, Brown Bates, Edwards, Quessenberry, Gouraige DE - Miller, Rousseau, Lawson, Epenesa, Basham DT - Oliver, Jones, Ford, Phillips, Settle LB - Milano, Bernard, Klein, Williams, Dodson, Matakevitch CB - White, Elam, Johnson, Jackson, Benford, Neal S - Poyer, Hyde, Rapp, Hamlin ST - Bass, Martin, Ferguson

Incorrect. Take a look at his game log - https://www.nfl.com/players/yannick-ngakoue/stats/ 2022 - 15 games, 15 starts 2021 - 17 games, 17 starts In fact, the only season he didn't start every game he played in his career was 2020. And that was due to being traded to a new team before the start of the season and being traded again midseason. Again, there are DE's that will have to settle for a rotational pass rusher role with us. But Ngakoue is the top echelon of available DE's. There are teams that he could start on and he'd be signed to start on. If we bring one in, it will probably come later when the list has dwindled and a solid option is just looking to get on a team and will take anything. And with how deep the list is, it may very well be a very solid option.

Yeah, but how is he going to do that on a team that doesn't have a clear defining starting role for him? Miller by all accounts is on pace for not missing any regular season time. I don't see them wanting to remove Groot from the Starting Lineup. Would Ngakoue get his fake share of reps cycled in? Sure. But why would he take that role when he's the #1 DE option out there and could surely get an etched in stone starting role on another team? If we were to add a DE, it would be someone from the list who has to settle for an off the bench role. As I said above, that's way more likely to be a Quinn, Houston, Clowney, Ingram, or Dunlap than an Ngakoue, Floyd, or Clark.

Yannick would be great. But of the DE's remaining who may have to settle, Yannick is the least likely to have to. He's the #1 available DE. If we were to get a DE, which I'm not convinced we will following signing Shaq back and Von being on pace to not miss any time, it would be more like a Quinn, Houston, Clowney, or Dunlap than an Ngakoue, Floyd, or Clark.

Of course I'd take him. But Isaiah Wynn isn't signing somewhere to not start. And while Beane may want some insurance behind Brown in case of injury or poor performance, he's not looking to outright replace Brown. Wynn is also available now because he's looking for big money. Something we're also not going to do. So if we were to sign another OT, it would be someone else. I'd look at someone like George Fant or Cameron Fleming as the best possible scenario.

I mean, it's fun to think about trading for Justin Jefferson too. But just like Hopkins it's not going to happen. Hopkins being traded to us is dead. Beane has said time and again he's not interested in the deal. He drafted the top pass catcher in the Draft and a very intriguing prospect in Shorter. The Cardinals GM made it clear he's not moving him. Hopkins has publicly stated he's back with Arizona. It's over.

As I said above, you understand that if that happens and we can't afford him and lose him that we'd get a Comp pick in return right? We're getting a 3rd for Edmunds. Which is more than we would have gotten trying to trade him last season. Whatever we'd get for Oliver now would be the same or less than the comp pick we'd get. And we'd get this year out of him as well.

Beane said he has been talking to his people and he hopes to get it done. Whether that means before the season or after the season remains to be seen. But this concept of "you have to get something for him before you lose him for nothing" is short sighted and not a real thing. You don't see a rash of teams trading away players in the last year of their rookie deal because they haven't gotten an extension done before the season. The reasons for that are: 1.) When GM's draft a player, they do it with the expectation that they have them for *at least* 4-5 seasons under a cost controlled Rookie deal. GM's don't think "well, I may or may not be able to get him back, so let's cut this deal shorter" 2.) Teams aren't interested in making deals for people who are only under contract for 1 year. Why give up a pick when they'll be free to sign for nothing in a year? Why give up a pick when you don't know if you're going to have him longer than a year? If it were to happen, we'd get peanuts in return because of these reasons. 3.) If we cannot re-sign a player on a Rookie deal and he signs elsewhere for big money, you get a compensatory pick. And that pick is likely to be more than you'd get in a trade anyways. It's all the rage to point to Edmunds and say "we didn't trade him and now we've lost him for nothing in return". But that's not true. We got that year out of him last season and we're getting a 3rd Round pick on top of it. Which is more than we'd have gotten trading him. Long story short, Oliver was never going to be traded. And in the small chance it were to have happened, it would have been done by now. Now it doesn't make any sense any way you look at it. Why would we make ourselves worse at starting 3T when we don't have to? There's no one out there that is better than him. Why would we need to at this point? Our roster is pretty much set at this point. Especially when it comes to starters. We've filled all of our needs already and just need some small finishing touches. We're going to give away a starter for some reserve players at other positions? How does that make sense?

He's brought up wanting to re-sign him unsolicited. While there's sense in what you're saying in a vacuum - the concept doesn't make sense. Why would we voluntarily make ourselves worse at the position? If he's as expendable as many make him out to be, why would a team give up a Draft pick, 10m in cap space, and no guarantee they have him beyond one year? Ed Oliver was never going anywhere and especially not now. Post Draft with teams having filled their needs and low on funds.

Never happening. Wasn't happening during the Draft. Isn't happening now. This is a fan made up idea like Edmunds was last year. Anytime he's brought up around Beane he talks about wanting to re-sign him. He'll either get extended before the year or he'll be a FA after this season. But he's "definitely" not going anywhere. He's our best 3T and there isn't a better one available out there. Teams don't trade for guys with 1 year left on their contract with a 10m cap hit. Anything is possible in the NFL. But you're living in a fantasy world thinking it's a definite.