BillsFanForever19

Not gonna be able to trade up into the Top 5 when we're picking at 32 😉 Terrible f'n luck. No one could have foreseen either happening. Luckily, the Mahomes move (plus moving Cordy Glenn) facilitated us getting Josh, Tre, and Edmunds (who we got 5 years out of) and Jefferson got us Diggs. So it still worked out fairly comparable.

I think Hopkins is still an Elite WR. And I would like us to get him. But these ideas that there is absolutely no pitfall to the type of contract it would take to get him and that if Hopkins himself chooses to sign elsewhere that it's Brandon Beane's fault and he needs to pay are ridiculous.

The cap is real. You can't just spend whatever, whenever. It isn't "just a guideline". When you have a team of stars, spending and pushing the can down the road time and again comes at a cost. And yes, as many like to point out, the cap is going to increase. But you know what else increases when the cap does? The price of contracts. Teams spend more to compete with other teams for players when they have more.

Yes. The deal being floated around is for 2-3 seasons with up to 3 dead cap years tacked on to the end until 2028. Do the math.

Really going out on a limb there saying Hopkins signing with the Chiefs wouldn't benefit us 😆 Whether or not it's something anyone here wants to see happen, it's unrealistic to think it's impossible that he would choose them over us.

No, he's not. There is no post from Schefter like that recently. @KyleTreats is stirring the pot. That's a truncated image of a post from 3+ years ago.

And adding 2-3 dead cap years where he isn't on the team. Which is what he's talking about. Players like Dalton Kincaid, James Cook, Kaiir Elam, etc could become superstars in the league that we have to pay a premium for and the belt will be tightened by a deal we made this season for a player who will probably no longer be on the team.

But again, what does that have to do with the possibility that Hopkins simply chooses to go to KC over us? It's not as simple as Beane just wanting him and making the Cover 1 offer and he's ours. Has Hopkins talked about Josh and us? Yes. But he's also talked about KC and Mahomes in the same conversations practically every time. Josh was the first name out of his mouth. But if you think it's absolutely impossible that he could get on the phone with Mahomes and Reid and like what they're saying more than us, you're being a homer. Side note because I missed it in my first reply: your "nuclear" idea isn't a simple snap your fingers and make it happen option. The odds that there's a team out there that wants to take Ed Oliver on a 1 year deal for 10.75m guaranteed contract this late in the Offseason is EXTREMELY unlikely. Do I want to see that happen? Absolutely not. Do I want to see him in a Bills uniform? Absolutely. But it's not reality to think there's absolutely no way we won't get him. It's not an impossibility to think he could prefer KC over us when push comes to shove. If the poster that facilitated these kinds of posts is to be believed, it's not only a possibility, it could be a reality.

Again, CAN we do that? Yes. It is possible. But just because we can doesn't mean there isn't issues with that. That includes adding dead cap hits over 2-3 seasons longer than he'll be contracted to the team. Which means, we may not be able to afford players down the road because we're paying for someone who isn't even on the team anymore. Just because it's something that can be done and it's something you, I, or other fans are comfortable with doesn't mean that it doesn't come with pitfalls and that there's no reason for Beane to not want to do that.

Yes, but what do they have besides Kelce? Their WR core is MVS and Toney. They have 1 good receiving Back in McKinnon. Kelce and Diggs may be a wash. But Kincaid, Davis, Knox, Cook, Harty, and Hines are going to cut into his opportunities more than MVS, Toney, Moore, and McKinnon will - if Kelce and Diggs are a wash. I thought you were level headed. When did you all of a sudden become the 'do whatever it takes or we're doomed' guy? We could offer the same or offer more and there's a chance he still would prefer Mahomes, Reid, and KC over us. That's not "excuses". I never said "they're better than us and give him a greater possibility of winning a SB". Even if I did (which I didn't), both can be true. They can have the better team all around between all of the positions combined on the field and coaching (again, I'm not saying they do) and still be weaker at the skill positions.

Here's the thing - we have a much better array of receiving weapons with Diggs, Kincaid, Knox, Davis, and pass catching backs like Cook and Hines than KC has with Kelce, their lackluster WR core, and style of Backs. So if KC offers the same as we do, he may prefer to go to KC where he will clearly be the #1 WR and won't have incentives cut into from another WR like Diggs. We could offer as much as we can. We could make that offer you posted from Cover 1. We could do that and KC could still land Hopkins through no fault of Beane's. It's not as simple as just if Beane wants it and makes that offer, Hopkins is ours.

Where I've changed over the years is looking at things more from the General Manager's perspective than my own. I used to see things a GM would do or not do and get upset about them from my own point of view. Now, having seen how Beane operates over the past number of years, I look at things more about how I expect him to address things rather than how I would.

You mean to tell me I can't trust a guy with a total of 12 followers named MuffClam?

They were pursuing it. Then we passed and drafted a Big Slot in Round 1 because we needed to have a weapon with Hopkins out of the picture. Also doubled down and Drafted a large outside WR with untapped potential in the 5th. Then spent what little money we had left on Ford, Murray, Cline, and Ray. So circumstances have changed quite a bit since then. Not to mention, what we'd most likely have to do to sign him is the same thing we'd have done to his AZ contract. Which Beane didn't want to do, or else he'd have thrown something their way for him. I want to see this get done. But what it takes to get done, Beane already decided he wasn't comfortable doing. Only way I see this happening is if Hopkins wants to come here so badly that he's willing to take less (and probably substantially less). If it becomes a bidding war and/or another team that he said he likes like the Eagles, Ravens, or Chargers steps to the table, who have cap space - I just don't see it.

And therein lies the problem to me. I know you'd do that. I probably would as well. But will Beane do that? He wasn't willing to do that for OBJ. And yes, OBJ has injury issues. But Hopkins also has age concerns amongst other concerns. Does he feel Hopkins is truly that much more of a talent that he'd do it for him? Compounding issues is he wasn't willing to do that when he had more money available to him and hadn't already addressed the Pass Catching room as he has now. I feel as though if he were comfortable doing that and Hopkins was agreeable to that kind of deal, he would have traded for him. That type of deal could have been done on a restructure of his AZ contract. And Beane wasn't comfortable with it. As I've said before, I'd like to see this get done. And while there are ways of doing it, those ways include things that I don't see Beane being comfortable with. I hope I'm wrong. But just because it CAN be done doesn't mean it WILL be done. What we're comfortable with are things I don't see Beane being comfortable with. But we will see.

A 4th DeAndre Hopkins thread seems unnecessary. But I'll bite: WR: Stefon Diggs TE: Dawson Knox Slot: Dalton Kincaid WR: DeAndre Hopkins Gabe Davis and Deonte Harty are 3 and 4 on the outside. Khalil Shakir is the #2 slot. And no, no one gets traded. We will have to keep 1 less at another position though as we'll have to carry 7 WR's.

I believe that represents what fans want to see happen and what fans are comfortable with. But I don't think Beane is interested in spreading out cap hits years after the contract ends. He's far more conservative than fans.

It's not moving the goal posts. I didn't mention in the same season because it goes without saying. Your doubling back a season or seasons later is a totally different scenario. And if anything - it justifies my original post. That when he moves on in an offseason, he moves on and fills the holes for that year. He'll only revisit it in other seasons when things are different. I agree on the White front. But he still has to get that done. I'm not so sure on Dawkins though. He hasn't lived up to his deal and was at best average last season. He may want to get out from under that deal if he underperforms this season. Restructuring his deal could make that more difficult. I think that's why you didn't see him do that all offseason. Financially, yes. He wasn't comfortable paying OBJ money for anyone. And Hopkins will require more, at a time where we're even more strapped and have addressed the pass catching room to a point that he was happy with. I think it's likely we'll call and make an offer. But I just don't see Beane getting into the range that it will most likely cost.

It does make sense though. Reportedly we offered the same type of deal to Yannick Ngakoue. I think it represents the most he's willing to do for anyone right now. This is what I've been saying and fear when it comes to Hopkins. At this point, Beane isn't spending money. He wasn't spending much all offseason to begin with. He finessed the cap as much as I think he felt comfortable doing and adequately filled the many holes he had. He appears to be doing diligence on a Tre restructure. Hopefully he can get that done and free up enough to get Hopkins attention. Hopefully the incentive laden deal isn't his final offer. When it comes to a Dawkins restructure, I feel he may be hesitant to do that as he may want to get out from under that if he has another bad year. And he's not going to rush his schedule and thinking on extending DT's to get another deal done.

Did those happen in the same season? It's one thing to look into someone and it doesn't work and then they revisit it a season or two later. It's another thing to look into doing something, it doesn't work out, so you make other moves instead and then in the same offseason go "Oh Damn, we can do it now? Well, let's bury those people we spent money and draft picks with on the depth chart, change our plans, and give them all less playing time than I was planning now".

As I've said in another thread, it's great to want him here and figure out ways it could be done. But just because fans are comfortable with doing certain things and see a possible way to do it, doesn't mean Beane will be comfortable doing it and sees things the same way.

Ya know, if we would have kept this to THE DeAndre Hopkins thread, it would have been over 300 by now. Here's hoping the mods merge.

Listen, I get it. You want him on the team. I want him on the team too. I'm just looking at things in terms of the way Beane tends to operates, how he builds teams, and how he has built the team already. And that's not even taking into account beating out the competition and what the competition (if Beane enters the fray at all) will be offering. I also feel that if he wasn't willing to do the type of deal it took to get OBJ in here before he did the things he did in the Draft, it's unlikely he's to do that kind of deal now for Hopkins (and I think that's what it's going to take, if not more) when we're in a worse situation cap wise and have addressed our Receiving core more. Just because you or I would do something or it can be done in one way or another doesn't mean Brandon Beane would do it.

In a vacuum? No. But the point is he spent his money and draft picks on a number of Pass Catchers already. He's built the roster with plans of how each player will be utilized and developed. Doing so with Hopkins already out of his plans. To add him would alter those plans of utilization and development for the guys he has brought in. Like I've said, I would like to see him come here. I would like to see it get done. But I don't see Beane a.) Drastically altering how he envisioned the core this late and b.) Paying what it takes at this point to do so. I feel as though when he spent the last bit of money and filled us to 90, he had put the finishing touches and final bow on the roster until Training Camp and he was happy with it. We'll see if that's the case or not.

Yes, but Beane moving on is Beane moving on. He brought in players in the Draft that he has plans for and filled the roster with players he has plans for. Beane isn't the type to move on from someone, fill the positions the way he'd like with other players, and then double back and alter the group he already formed. Again, I hope I'm wrong. But to me it seems like he did a lot of work on the Pass Catchers already and probably feels like he's already addressed that the way he likes. At most, I see him offering him a team friendly, low risk, high reward, take it or leave it type deal. I can't see him offering an OBJ type level deal after everything he's already done. And that's probably what it's going to take. Best hope is that Hopkins wants to come here so badly that he'll take whatever we'll offer. But I'd bet there will be comparable teams that will be able to offer much more.