SaulGoodman

Like I’ve said, it varies. Mahomes had a solid advantage for a few years (but during the years that Allen wasn’t the QB he is now), a couple years were a wash, and the last few years I’d say Allen had the advantage. ‘22 for sure. Multiple sources ranked the Bills’ ‘22 roster #1 in the NFL. And PFF has rated several of their rosters as comparable or better than KC’s. Unbiased analysts don’t agree with you.

Agreed. Which is another reason I think it’s crazy when people claim that Allen would have accomplished as much or more in Mahomes’ position. In the years that Mahomes had a much better supporting cast, Allen wasn’t ready.

So, two defenses outperformed Buffalo's in that run. That doesn't mean that 27 points was insurmountable. But only SF's defense was overly successful vs KC, and not when it mattered most. Reid went very conservative in the 2nd half vs both Miami and Baltimore. When they needed plays, they got them. I wouldn't expect Allen to have quite the record that Mahomes has in the playoffs. But there's a huge difference between 15-3 and 5-5, and 4 SB appearances/3 rings vs 0. Especially when most of Allen's are WC or divisional games. If Allen is everything Bills fans claim he is, it's definitely fair to expect more.

I won't deny that board tends to be more crude than others, but most of the posters don't take it too seriously. It's just schtick in 90% of cases. Can you explain what I said that's wrong?

Regardless of what's happened in a few playoff games, Allen has arguably the best defensive head coach in the game right now. He also has an excellent OC, and Daboll was great before him. Meanwhile, Mahomes' OC is currently holding KC's offense back. Unbiased parties like PFF have rated several of Allen's rosters either on par with KC's or better. Allen's had several years of an equal or better offensive cast than what Mahomes had the last two years. His D has been better every year but one. Kelce and Hill were a nice combo in the early years, but that's two players, and the defense was never above average while Hill was on the roster. Mahomes has often faced teams with better overall rosters and usually comes out on top. All four SB opponents were clearly more stacked than KC, yet the Chiefs won 3 of 4. The "he needs a great cast" line rings pretty hollow given that he's won both Super Bowls since Tyreek left, with weak receivers and weak tackles both years. Let's see Allen win a SB with Juju Smith-Schuster and MVS as his top two WRs, an average at best defense, and a high ankle sprain. Or an AFC title game with MVS, Skyy Moore and a practice squad player as his top WRs. Are you telling me that roster was loaded? Teams have rarely let a QB down more than in the 2020 SB. Mahomes was running for his life the entire game (probably the worst OL play ever in a SB), yet he was still making great throws and gave the team a chance. Unfortunately for him, his receivers dropped numerous throws that hit either their facemask or hands (including three would-be TDs). His defense was torn apart, the running game did nothing, and his teammates piled up penalties. For every postseason game that Allen's defense let him down, Mahomes has a couple of his own. Aside from that one, there was the AFC title game vs NE. 37 points allowed at home, capped by Dee Ford's blunder. Mahomes never saw the ball again after getting his team in position for a tying FG in under 30 seconds. The defense allowed 35 vs the Eagles, but Mahomes still won. They allowed 36 vs the Bills (also, Butker missed multiple kicks) and put him in a hole with 13 seconds left. Still won. In '19, he was in a double digit hole in every playoff game, and won every game by double digits. Against Houston, his team put him in a 24-0 hole thanks to a comedy of errors. He had the lead by halftime and scored 51 straight points or whatever. To date, there's one playoff loss that Mahomes deserves blame for (out of 18 total playoff starts). Cincinnati in '21. And even that amounted to a handful of bad plays in the second half, after a nearly perfect first half. Something that's never mentioned when people make comparisons of playoff stats is the difference in competition. The defenses that Allen's faced have been considerably weaker on average. That's because he's only been past the divisional round once, while Mahomes is in the AFCC at a minimum every year. Facing those SF defenses, Baltimore last year, etc is not the same as Houston, IND, Miami, etc. Mahomes has put up ridiculous numbers in the early rounds of the playoffs. Why's it so hard for Bills fans to admit that Allen hasn't been perfect? That 10 points wasn't good enough vs Cincy? Or 19 in OT vs a mediocre Houston team? Or that the defense won the game vs Baltimore (17-3)? That he could've been a lot better in the AFCC game in '20? That he could've made more plays in the last matchup vs KC, and fumbled at the worst possible time? Or that he could have positioned his team better in playoff seeding in some seasons.

Congrats on leading the NFL in hype after week 3.

So is he widely hyped or disrespected? I've seen a TON of posts here indicating the latter. Whatever fits the argument, eh? If you can't see that Mahomes has had mediocre/bad defense throughout most of his career, and also subpar weapons/OL/running game at times, then you're pretty dense yourself.

The Bills allowed 27 pts vs KC last postseason. In the Mahomes era, KC's defense has allowed 27 or more 6 times. If Bass makes that kick, it's 7 times. They've allowed 30+ pts 5 times and won 3 of them. If you take out the KC games, Buffalo's postseason defensive numbers are solid. If you're expecting to shut down a Mahomes/Reid offense in the playoffs, you're going to be continually disappointed. Did Allen do his part by scoring 10 pts vs Cincinnati? Why couldn't such an incredible talent muster more than 24 vs KC at home last year? Why didn't he score on more than half his drives against a mediocre KC defense that was falling down/blowing coverages every other play in '21? In the '20 AFC title game, Allen was gifted a muffed punt and six points early in the game. Why was his team down 38-15 before garbage time, against a mediocre defense? Who deserves the most credit for the 17-3 postseason win vs Baltimore? Why couldn't Allen lead his team to more than 19 pts in OT the year before?

Three defensive penalties on the Falcons' last drive was sure a weird method for bailing a team out.

And I'd say it's very biased to ignore the fortune in Allen's favor. His teammates recovering his fumble on the last drive, Hardman's goal line fumble, etc. MVS didn't make any spectacular catches. They were pretty routine. You were just surprised to see him actually hold onto the ball. By far the best catch of the game was Shakir's TD.

So you say. And I'd argue that if they switched places (Mahomes playing at home with the Bills' roster and Brady as OC), Mahomes would have still won.

Wait...what? No, he's way better than Lawrence. Not sure what makes you think I believe otherwise. For active QBs, my tiers would be something like this: Mahomes Allen Jackson Stafford Burrow Rodgers Herbert Stroud Love Dak Hurts Purdy Goff Carr Cousins Mayfield Daniels Murray Tua, Lawrence, Geno, Darnold, etc

Guess you're right. I meant unbiased parties.

Marino's an outlier. Every other all-time great won at least won SB, and many won multiple. Obviously it's a team game, but it's really hard to argue that a guy with zero SBs was better than someone who won several. The QB has by far the most impact on a team's success of any individual player. I'd be very surprised if Allen never wins a SB, but until he does, he doesn't deserve to be ranked ahead of guys who won several. Especially someone who's won several in a handful of years, along with multiple MVPs. The excuses are a little sad to me. If he's the most talented QB ever (as I know many of you believe), he shouldn't need superstars at every position to have a winning record in the postseason or win an AFC championship. The guy's had one of the top defenses in the league virtually every year, good coaching, good tackle play, solid receiving weapons, and decent RBs. He's had some solid rosters to work with. Mahomes hasn't had a perfect situation. His WRs were bad the last few years, tackles have been weak for much of his career, the defense was mediocre/bad every year until last season, and the running game has varied from bad to average. Plus, Nagy's held the offense back these last two years (whereas Brady is doing the exact opposite for Buffalo). KC's had a weaker roster than all four Super Bowl opponents and still won 3 of them. I'd argue that they've had weaker rosters than several other playoff opponents too.

Marino was widely considered the GOAT? He’s usually nowhere close in that argument. And specifically due to the lack of championships. No QB has ever accomplished what Mahomes has at this point in a career. And those who are in the vicinity didn’t have the unique combination of abilities that Mahomes possesses. The off-platform sidearm throws, the athleticism, improv ability, escapability, instincts, arm strength, etc. Of course you’re going to favor your guy if there’s any argument to be made. But if the roles were reversed and you were a KC fan, you’d laugh your ass off at people claiming that Allen is obviously the better player. It’s like a Chargers fan claiming that Rivers had clearly surpassed prime Brady after a couple wins over the Lions and Browns. The narrative that Allen is disrespected by the media has always been ridiculous. He’s been hyped more than any QB in history with similar accomplishments.

This is where I point out the chasm in overall accomplishments, before you pivot back to “it’s a team game.” Records are meaningless at this point of the season. Do you actually think the Bengals and Ravens will be at the top of the draft? KC gets everyone’s best shot, and yet they appear to sleepwalk through most games. Because the regular season becomes a boring formality to a team that’s used to winning championships.

So the vast majority of analysts are casuals?

Well, of course you think that. Most unbiased fans don't. One QB is more dialed in because he has a lot more to prove. The other has nothing to prove and is facing much better teams.

The Bills have been running up the score on bad teams for 5 or 6 years now.

Lol. Yes, Allen's off to a better start through three games (vs bad teams). Crown him.

Yes. Rice wouldn't have been open all night without Worthy's presence.

I'm guessing that Allen/McDermott would have won more of those.

Your examples both include a KC TD being taken off the board, and also a negated INT, among other big calls that went against them. But everything’s slanted KC’s way because they called a late hit when Mahomes was a full 2 yds out of bounds, and a defensive hold that was defended by rules experts. I get that you guys hate the Chiefs, but you don’t have to make up false narratives to justify it. 😝

Everything slanted in their favor? Like when Taylor was relentlessly targeted by officials after joining KC, despite never having issues in four years in Jacksonville? Or the numerous TDs stripped off the board and turnovers negated the past few years? There were two total TDs negated by penalty last postseason...both scored by KC. Maybe it was the late hit call on Mahomes when he was a full two yds out of bounds in the AFCC. Or the fact that KC consistently falls somewhere between the most-penalized team in the NFL and middle of the pack?

Thought it was about results. Things have been pretty equal the last few years. Not sure that will be the case again this year though.