Beck Water

Who do you mean by "trailer boys"? Maybe what we need here is some definition. We both agree he said he takes time off, and the last two years he took more time off for recovery. How do you define or think Josh defines "off season"?

It's not an argument, it's a question. "Great athletes can eat terribly and not workout much at all and be dominant on the field/court... outperforming and recovering from injury faster than some workout warriors." OK - who are these athletes known to be in the modern era of professional sports (say, last 10-15 years)?

Could you please answer the question? How do you think he's putting up the rush yards AND passing yards (not to mention stiff arming and trucking) against defensive players who often show themselves dripping with sweat and pumping iron on social media, if he doesn't work out and build a good base of fitness (aerobic and strength) prior to the season? Like I said, just step away for a second from the question of whether you and others are accurately representing what "Josh says about Josh", and just tell me how you makes sense of those little facts, if Josh does not train hard and work out? Then we can move on to him being the active player with most consecutive starts. It seems pretty well established that athletes who are ill conditioned or under-trained can be more prone to injury. So how do you reconcile that? Again, step away from what you think you heard Josh say, and just explain to me how it makes sense to you in light of these factual observations?

I don't know about PFF pass defense grades. But last season, Kirksey had a passer rating of 90.1 against him. That's 132nd in the league. Completion percentage against him was 75%. For comparison, Tremaine Edmunds had a passer rating of 69.9 against him, Milano 62.6 (#13 in the league), Poyer 60.1 (#8 in the league) And in McDermott's defense, linebackers most definitely have to do both.

I wouldn't assume that the playbook isn't essentially the one he had with Hackett in Green Bay. Why wouldn't it be? If I'm correct, the issue isn't Rodgers mastering the playbook, the issue is "have WR not named Cobb and Lazard mastered the playbook? Has Dalvin Cook mastered the playbook? Is the OL all on the same page with the protections?" I'm no DC, but that's what I'd probe into trying to exploit. Rodgers was very effective against the blitz in GB because he knew what his answers were, and his receivers knew what they were supposed to do to be answers. If the Bills D can throw a monkey wrench into those works, should be interesting.

Let me just step away for a second from the question of whether you and others are accurately representing what "Josh says about Josh", which, to me, is still a very valid question given how I *know* a recent article on film got distorted. Let's just go with some facts: 1) Josh was the #38 in the league last year in rush YPG. Not of QB - that's all runners. 47.6 YPG. 2) Josh was #6 in the league last year in passing YPG, 267.7 YPG That means he combines the contributions of a good RB with a top QB. In addition, he is frequently observed to evade, stiff-arm, and outright truck defensive players. Now I have a question: How do you think he's doing that against defensive players who often show themselves dripping with sweat and pumping iron on social media, if he doesn't work out and build a good base of fitness (aerobic and strength) prior to the season? I'll hang up and listen.

Hi. https://www.buffalobills.com/video/one-bills-live-jordan-palmer-on-working-with-josh-and-kyle-allen Palmer talks about working with Josh Allen (not as long duration as he used to, due to playing in January and needing time for physical and mental recovery) and using the video they generate to coach him on mechanics Mon-Tues during the season. Now I put this up on another thread and folks all interpreted it "oh, I thought they danced around if he works with Jordan" or truncated it "oh he only worked with him for a couple weeks" but neither of those viewpoints appear to me to be supported by the actual interview. As far as Josh really improving, that seemed to come when Chris Hess of Biometric (at Palmer's arrangement) mapped his throwing motion in the 2020 off season. That helped Josh identify that he was actually not using his lower body in his throwing, and he re-worked his throwing motion. He discussed still doing this on his interview with Pat McAfee

Please tell us where Allen described his lack of working out. I had a little look around at Kyle Brandt's Basement from this off-season and can not find such a thing. Thanks.

And @JohninMinn. vaults to the easy lead in the Nattering Nabobs of Negativity Challenge!

Probably anyone can be "had" if you jack the price up high enough But Beane was handing out monopoly money this off season

Well you'll find the wet spot Oh...wait...was that my OUTER voice? Well, it's not *my* best counterpoint, but since it's obviously true, why should it upset a soul? Truth hurts.... I'm having trouble parsing "let alone start the same to ally lake thread"

I think this is a fair perspective. It also sounds as though Josh has started thinking about it. I actually agree that Josh doesn't come across well in this interview. Comes across as very golf-focused and kind of fratt-y with the getting super drunk and having personal oxygen bottles and pedialyte to recover. News flash, Josh, acetaldyhyde is toxic and getting rid of the headache does not get rid of all the persistent effects. Part of it is where the interviewers led him though. I thought the whole podcast didn't come across well. It was kind of a snooze-fest to me, actually, yattering on about golf courses and so forth. I don't think either Kyle or Jordan are particularly gifted interviewers. I felt Kyle and Jordan Palmer exploited their "insider status" as close friends of Josh Allen to bring out somewhat embarrassing anecdotes that they wouldn't be able to bring out about other QBs with whom they are NOT as "close friends" and don't see those private moments, and that objectively, really wasn't well done of them.

Thanks for doing this! Good thread start. My honest answers to these put me squarely in the "Hopeful" camp. I'm going to go with Kincaid. I think a solid rookie performance from our best candidate for filling that need over the middle would go a long way to improve the Bills offense. Hope we can all say "our Kinc is OK!" after this season. Torrance good choice though. I hope it's Connor McGovern. We really need to solidify that IOL I'm really in "hopeful" mode. I'm going to say "James Cook, and it's not close". The reason this is hopeful is that it would mean we have more of a running game, and we need less blocking from our backs. Cook is not "all that" in pass pro, whereas Harris can do it. I'm also skeptical on Harris injury history Trent Sherfield. I'm not sure I can call Davis a "dark horse" by my understanding of the term. He's going into the season as our #2 WR for the 2nd year and much is expected. Potential to overtake him: Ryan Van Demark. The OBD crew was surprised that the Bills cut Quessenberry loose to keep Van Demark, especially as he seems just progressing in his ability to play RT. If he comes on at RT, I would like to see him challenge Brown. That would be a real "Dark Horse", didn't see that coming, deal! Excellent choice. No argument on Floyd. I may go with Kingsley Jonathan though. Again, when a guy has Floyd's performance history, is he really a dark horse? May be a quibble. But Hard to argue with this. Ultimately, as VM goes, so may go the Bills season. I would say if Dawson doesn't get the numbers, it's likely to be because Spencer Brown sucks at RT and we're keeping him in to chip/release or just block. Which brings me to my choice for this: Spencer Brown.

If what she said is correct, they wanted 30 cc of blood, You can pull that out of a healthy guy with good veins in like, 5 minutes tops. It's not that far off what they draw when you visit the doc, he or she orders a bunch of routine tests, and the phlebotomist puts that big needle attached to the green plastic cylinder in your arm and proceeds to swap tubes in it 5-6 times.

Grown men don't start stuff by calling other grown men (who happen to be elite, top NFL players) lazy. Which was pathetic first?

I think that's a pretty fair take. Depending upon what you mean by wrap, that may actually be good tackling technique, but of course getting dragged downfield is not. When Poyer or Milano tackles, guys generally know they've been hit. I do feel that Edmunds got more aggressive tackling the last 2 years. IIRC, in 2020 he was playing almost all season with an AC Joint sprain (injured 1st or 2nd game), which made him tentative.

With scoring "drops", they're only supposed to score as drops 'a pass that a WR should catch with ordinary effort' ie, that hits the WR on the hands or within a rough rectangle from his upper thighs to just over his head and on either side such that he could still 2 hand it - which means they don't count a number of catches we fans look at and say "a top NFL WR needs to make that". Similar deal supposed to be the case with missed tackles - they aren't supposed to score as missed, a tackle where the LB has to make extraordinary effort. I think Milano has made an effort the last couple years to let some tackles go or shoe-string them from behind, where he would previously stick out one arm and risk injuring a shoulder or tearing a pec. And it still worked for the Bills last season because he'd slow the guy down and Edmunds or Poyer would seal it. But yeah, I'd like to see them too.

That's one POV. Another POV is that you're trading some *thump* and some TFL for the sure wrap-and-tackle For Edmunds, probably some truth to both.

OK, I can go with this. They've been to 3 and won 2 Superbowls since Allen was drafted. Gap, check. But this is where it starts to run off the rails to me. I believe I heard McAfee say that Allen is the active player with the most consecutive starts, 71. In the Miami game, where players were dropping with heat stroke and cramps, Allen played every snap. He finished the season 7th in passing yards and 34 in rush yards - not QB rush yards, everybody's rush yards He's noted for his ability to truck grown-ass NFL DBs, LBs, and defensive ends. Yet people believe that somehow, he does this while not working out and taking care of his physical fitness? And while not studying film? By the way, "ripped" is not a good standard for either strength or physical fitness. Where's some of our personal trainer guys here to help me out? "Ripped" has to do with training for muscle definition in every muscle group, and training for low body fat %. Those aren't necessarily indicative, or even compatible, with the kind of functional fitness a guy needs to play every offensive snap for 19 games and take hit after hit. Can Allen improve as a QB? Yes, he can, and I've got the receipts here of saying so and providing some specifics. But this "needs to improve physical fitness" "doesn't watch film" or "lazy" talk is just off the rails.

I'm not gonna get into defending Edmunds as a hitter. I'll just point out that some of the biggest hits (and by extension, biggest hitters) are actually poor tackling technique. Donte Whitner exemplified this Back in Da Day. He would go for the BOOM! but if the opponent managed to deflect, they were gone and Whitner was trying to pick himself up off the turf and recover to pursue. There's actually a stat kept around missed tackles. Like the drop stat, it is not an official NFL stat, has some subjectivity behind it, and the different statistical services who provide it may differ a bit. Anyway, Tremaine Edmunds was scored with one (1) missed tackle - 1% missed tackles - last season. Milano, who to (my perception anyway) is a much more aggressive hitter, had 13 missed tackles, 11.6%. I'm not trying to knock on Milano, just to point out that "aggressive hitting" is a mixed blessing from the point of view of a defense.

OK, so you don't respect Tom Brady, Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen, and before him Jim Kelly. Got It. And drinking to excess, even if done in a setting which doesn't involve driving or placing others at risk, is irresponsible. Got it. In fact, you probably don't respect the vast majority of sports stars in general and the Bills team in particular, because I think most of them tie on on at some interval. Calibration complete, Thanks.

Google Image search. 43 weeks ago https://www.instagram.com/p/Ckeu5teOufc/ Fitz sprang that pic on Allen at the end of an interview he did before one of the football games he covered.

Yeah there are similar stories about Mahomes in the Chiefs Superbowl parade. He was observed just HAMMERING beers and so drunk he almost fell off the bus. I mean, you just won the freakin' Superbowl, who wouldn't party? But when asked on twitter the next day if he had a hangover, Mahomes tweeted back "I went to Texas Tech...prepared me for these moments." I think Kermit slammed the brews a little harder than a novice (or someone way out of practice) would manage. I'm betting if he had "close friends" interviewing him or we were all up in his friends' Instas, we'd find some stuff.

Dude, number 1, how would Marino know what Josh did or didn't do off-season? Since we have just seen at least 3 examples of stuff that Josh said radically distorted by people around here, and since you just acknowledged your own "Bone to pick" of "disliking Josh as a person", skepticism seems warranted. I don't listen to Joe Marino regularly. I've heard he has some good stuff, but I'm not going to pour through podcast after podcast trying to verify what you say. I think it's "on you" to provide some evidence. As far as this being: What a bunch of unmitigated malarky. A bunch of respected posters here are rationally critical of Beane, drafting, cap management, Josh Allen, the offense, you name it - and guess what? Plenty of room and no one heats the tar and gets pitchforks ready. There may be disagreement, but it's pretty respectful. What's despicable, IMO, are people who take one thing that was said and totally distort or exaggerate it to feed their narrative. That's not being a fan. And of course, @oldmanfan nailed it: "You claim to not like someone personally that you’ve never met. That is what is bizarre." @Nelius spoke truth: "that's not exactly constructive criticism."