Mikie2times

I did this pre draft and here is the post draft update: I took Fitzgerald-Spielberger average pick value for trade purposes (1st pick is worth 3000, 2nd 2649) all the way to the end of the draft. I then evaluated by position how much each team spent as a % of the total pick value they were allotted since 2018. While not perfect, I'm attempting to get some statistical way to represent what we have spent at each position in draft capitol in relation to other teams. Again, this is as a % of that teams total capitol, so it's looking more for how you spent what you had, not how much did you have. These are the rankings by position with the heat graph below.

My sweet spot would probably be 30. But ya, do you ever reach a point in life where you don’t like beautiful women?

This seems to be a really interesting grouping not only thru training camp but also when Ogunjobi and Hoecht (can we please give nicknames?) return. It would seem Hoecht could be more of a hybrid as far as position allocation, so another layer with that factored in. How many do we typically keep each year is also not something I'm 100% on. So I'm curious what some people think as far as what they expect this to look like out of camp and what they expect this to look like when those two players return. Do you see any surprise cuts? I have heard Jones and Carter being tossed around, but those appear to be the likely 1 tech DT's? I know Ogunjobi can play that spot as well. Perhaps even Walker although most his draft feedback has said that isn't necessarily who he is.

One group of posters is happy for how far this team has come and is reasonably content with where our franchise is. Another group recognizes our achievements but will always be critical until we win a Super Bowl. Every argument about this team is based on that, including this one.

It's in the middle IMO. But point taken.

Yup. Very few paths to winning it all that don't require the offense to have a few clutch drives.

Then post where your data is coming from given this topic and the data sources associated with it are not exactly consistent nor understood.

I'm clearly exaggerating the 70% and literally zero chance on earth exists that Allen stays in the pocket at the league average. As soon as they have better transparency on offensive production in and out of the pocket you will have your key to why our offense is what it is.

are you really trying to argue that we have even a third of the weapons the Bengals do? He was a back up QB that came in and nearly led them to the playoffs. You're talking about Tyrod Taylor? Get a grip man.

Welp, given the Vikings produced a top 10 offense with him last year and the Bengals averaged 23 points a game with JAKE BROWNING in 2023. I would say it's a pretty obvious yes.

You assumed he needed to be pressured to leave the pocket? What does it look like without him? Maybe with Sam Darnold? You think it's a top 10 unit? Oh please say yes.....🤣

Allen leaves the pocket on 70%+ of his drop backs. So if we want to sing the praises of our low sack rates, I think that's a little more complicated. Still, nobody said the line was poor. Never read it anywhere. It's what people lean in on to defend the lack of resources bestowed upon our offense. Meanwhile Gabe Davis leaves and goes on to average 30 yards per game when healthy last year for Jacksonville. He would be a #2 WR on this offense and you could argue he might even be a #1. I don't know how you can contort your view to call that average. Nobody from this team is leaving this offense, going to another team, and performing better. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. That includes the lineman. Josh accounts for so much production off script, this entire thing would become unrecognizable without him. So we partner that with a very good ground attack and say look at how good we are. Again, because of 17 for the most part. Back that out and we aren't even a league average unit.

By all means, if you can measure how well a QB is "protected" after leaving the pocket after 2 seconds every drop back, let me know. That's on Josh usually with him bailing, but the call outs on how he doesn't get sacked are basically meaningless. The line is strong either way. Nobody said it wasn't. Our skill position players are trash. If you want to blame Allen for that it would be a hilarious plot turn in the many I have seen on here.

Moore would be an excellent addition. IMO he has a much higher ceiling than what he has shown thus far and has been dragged down by atrocious QB play his first 4 years.

For many here he is infallible, which is just as off base as he's awful. But as has been pointed out over a 100 times, he doesn't see nuance to the offensive production. That production is excellent, so attention can be spent elsewhere. It's punishing Allen because he's that good. They don't feel like he needs additional resources.

Eyebrows as well please

I have to say, as much as I’m pissed we didn’t get a clear replacement for Jones, this guy looks like he’s going to be a really solid player. Him and Ed should create a lot of problems on 3rd down. His pass rush skill set is pretty impressive.

It will be interesting to see what happens at the conclusion of the season but I expect we will get his best effort this year and I don’t expect him to miss time for a hold out. If ultimately we don’t sign him at the end of this, I think it will be more based on just how we view the RB role with age and value vs a draft pick. I don’t think it will be about 10 vs 15 million. If we feel it’s logical to pay a RB a decent sum on a second contract we probably get it done. Many don’t feel that way around the league.

If Gabe Davis is on this team (the guy that averaged under 30 yards per game last year). He would either be our #2 or possibly even our #1 WR. We don’t have a top 10 TE, we have over 20 million invested at TE but neither is top 10. Maybe as a unit it’s top 10? We have a very good line that has the best OL coach in football behind it. It benefits a lot from Allen evading the pass rush, so it’s difficult to say how good. Certainly top 10 and maybe top 5? Cook is top 10 as well. How does the running game look without an Allen? I really don’t know. Not as strong for sure, but the line is good and so is the ground game. Even Shakir is probably no more than an average slot in the scheme of what he would do on another team. Not a unit that could support a middle tier QB like Sam Darnold, as the Vikings did last year. If Josh wasn’t on the team they wouldn’t be top 15 in points scored in my opinion. On defense, the talent level is so overwhelming that we had to spend nearly our entire draft filling holes. Lots of B level talent, very little A level talent. Outside of Allen I’m not sure that we have one All Pro on the roster. Some are getting closer or on the fringe of those awards, Brown, Benford, chief among them. I also think we have added a fairly absurd amount of pieces to the defense this year so hopefully that iteration breaks thru along with some player development from the last draft. When you set records for turnover differential, have an MVP QB, and play in a trash division, you can do a lot. Some posters like to equate these stats to raw talent. I don’t agree with it. It feels pretty easy to dismiss that view point just looking at the individual positions groups.

Like I said, we don’t provide the tools to Allen a less capable QB would get. Even more humorous, where the hell are the extra tools going (given our defense sucks and we just spent an entire draft on that side of the ball).

Not having Josh Allen for 17 straight seasons is what resulted in the drought era. We would have been just as far with several of those drought teams as we have the last 5+ years by just adding Josh.

Put a league average QB on this offense and we wouldn’t put up a top 15 PPG total. If you don’t think that is the case it’s not worth talking any further. Without Josh it completely falls apart. As it has for any offensive player who has left the Bills in the Allen era. Gabe Davis was our #2 for gods sake. Even more funny, he would probably still be today.

Imagine if you were a teacher and you had a student who was so gifted, so intelligent, so ahead of everybody else that you decided he just didn’t need your attention anymore. That it would be better to just focus your attention on everybody else who was further behind. Is it likely that genius student would hit his full potential? That is how the Bills treat our offense and Josh Allen. It’s as good as it is because of him and because he’s able to elevate the offense to that level we neglect it and put our attention into other things. Saying the whole time “well look at how great it is”. Talk about a curse. Being so good that you trick otherwise intelligent people into thinking you can’t grow anymore or become any better. Let’s also be clear, most people here were asking for an investment in the form of a 4th or 5th round pick. Clearly the defense needed to be prioritized. But as a whole the way Beane and many of our fans look at this offense is just wrong.

I looked her in the eyes and said “it might not be what you wanted, but it’s not the smallest” then we kissed passionately

Do you hold our defensive picks to this standard?