Mikie2times

How much influence is Allen having on those rankings vs in the individual talent of the rest of the team? This is what I wrote upstream. This concept with Josh impacting reality extends into nearly every element of this team. How often does Allen bail in the pocket after 2 seconds or less? All but securing our OL won't take a sack. How guarded does the defense need to be defending Allen, opening up our traditional run game? How often do we jump on teams in the first few minutes rendering them one dimensional on offense? Josh REALLY makes it difficult to view what is real and what isn't. Who is good and who isn't. I think Beane has drafted fairly well, especially for B level talent and not completely missing. I take into account that we draft late. Where I think Beane has really failed is in his FA additions / missing in key areas / and position fit. We have barely been able to land B talent in Free Agency since Hyde and Poyer, which is likely by design, but for me becomes an issue when we aren't getting that "A" level in the draft. The DT position has been neglected, specifically the 1 tech role (and still is). WR position has been neglected and assembled in such a bizarre way. Oversized wideouts, missing the outside wideout completely, lack of use. TE has been assembled in odd fashion. As we dump a big contract into Knox and go with Kinkaid shortly after. Really the entire defense, starting with the DL has underdeveloped given the resources invested. The hits were more prevalent in the past, but the last two years we have done so little in the draft or Free Agency to better this team.

I think it's more to help us get to the truth, whatever the truth is. Josh Allen has made that VERY difficult. I think the truth could range anywhere from both McD / Beane are top 10 at what they do, to one or both are actually much worse and a primary reason we have not been able to get much past the divisional round.. I don't view our postseason trajectory compared to being the literal best team in the NFL in the regular season as some random outcome or the Chiefs or injuries as primary driver. I just think it takes a lot more to win when you get that deep in the playoffs and the massive edge Allen creates in the regular season just isn't strong enough to overcome on it's own in the 2nd round or later. This concept with Josh impacting reality extends into nearly every element of this team. How often does Allen bail in the pocket after 2 seconds or less? All but securing our OL won't take a sack. How guarded does the defense need to be defending Allen, opening up our traditional run game? How often do we jump on teams in the first few minutes rendering them one dimensional on offense? Josh REALLY makes it difficult to view what is real and what isn't. Who is good and who isn't. We have an entire brigade on this forum that feels even acknowledging this as a legitimate question is borderline trolling. I think it's ultimately the question that will decide if Allen ever gets a Super bowl.

And next year when the roster looks largely the same?

Literally the second sentence While not perfect I tried to answer some of that below as a follow up to the original thread. It's not a perfect way to do it given no perfect way exists. As a result, some people like yourself will attack the method vs ever offering anything as an alternative outside of your opinion, which somehow you feel is more valid than a process that is at least applied in a consistent manner across multiple views points.

McNeil, Davis, Reader, all got hurt in that game, they had 1 starting DL healthy, no starting CB’s, 1 starting LB. Winning one regular season game or losing one (as we did vs Baltimore) isn't the tell all be all on how talented we are or not. I was going to respond but this is just a pure homer take. Which I have gotten into with you before in the past.

No it’s not, I’ve already looked it up about 8 times.

Yes, they include alternates. Which add to the depth of the number of entries. Cook and McGovern were on this list for 2024 (as an example). The Lions had half the team out when we played and you’re probably the only person even on this forum that thinks we have a better roster than the Ravens. We also have the league MVP at QB which tends to make up for a little talent deficiency.

It’s not to say McD is perfect either. In fact I would probably rate them somewhat similar. McD has certainly had some fairly horrifying moments in the playoffs. But to get to your answer, what McD does better than anybody is build defenses that force turnovers. Which is a really big deal. He might be the best and most consistent at this in the NFL. Lower performing regular season teams will be impacted by this more. His defense is also much more vulnerable to the run can the pass, which rarely matters in the regular season as we are much more likely to jump ahead and make teams one dimensional. So my current theory is in the postseason its not a talented roster falling apart. It’s more a roster with a ton of shortcoming finally getting exposed. McD can hide it in the regular season, but he’s just not good enough to do so as we get deeper in the playoffs. I’m not sure how many would be good enough to do so either.

This is another look that I think says a lot. This is all the teams last year that won at least 9 games. Then I looked at how many points they had per win. So in theory, the fewer points per win, the more you're overachieving. The more points per win, the more you're underachieving. Now does that work perfectly? Absolutely not. But does it work directionally? Sure it does and what you notice quickly is we look a lot closer to the top 3-4 teams on that chart (over achievers) than the bottom 3-4 teams (under achievers) from a talent perspective. But we look closer to the bottom teams on the chart from a win/loss perspective (over the last few years). Philadelphia: 38 points Baltimore: 39 points Detroit: 34 points These teams are far ahead of our roster. Throw KC into the mix at 25 points. Roseman, Veach, DeCosta, Lynch, and Holmes are ahead of just about everybody else from a talent build perspective. We have JA17, but when you have to deal with any of these teams and for us that means Baltimore and KC, we are behind the 8 ball. The thing I think that we really need to understand more is how far somebody like Beane is from replacement level. Beane looks like he's anywhere from 6-10 out of all GM's, but 6-10 looks a long ways away from what 1-5 looks like. Is 6-10 more or less replaceable compared to the top 15? Are we good with permanent run it back if this is what is actually happening?

He will only call him Vladimir. He must show him a high level of respect.

Largely, McD tends to be a much bigger target around here than Beane. Which is what prompted me to create the thread below. Again, I feel the Beane hype train is off the tracks a bit. The main points of contention seem to be how much high end talent do we have and how much is Josh influencing our talent? While not perfect I tried to answer some of that below as a follow up to the original thread. Pro Football reference tracks the NFL top 100, All Pro, and Pro Bowl teams on its site. The nice thing being its capturing far more players than the usual single team lists. That is a result of pro bowl alternates being included, first team All Pros, second team All Pro's, and multiple all pro teams from different news outlets. As an example how I'm looking at this, the Bills had two Pro Bowl nods from Cook, one from McGovern last year, Benford as an All Pro etc... So while most of you think none of these things happened, some of them did depending on how Pro Football Reference is capturing it. Which also leads to a much bigger pool of players/ more accuracy in the results All in all in the two years it lead to the following accolades (which could be received by a single player as many as two times) Pro Bowl: 215 All Pro: 152 Top 100: 200 The Bills are in a 3 way tie with the Jets and Vikings at 19 total. The vast majority of these contributions have come on the offensive side of the ball. The Bills are tied for 26th with 3 other teams in the same category for defense. This is about where I expected this to fall. Which sort of leaves us in the exact same place where we started. Our overall rankings are better than average but well below the top 5. The last two years of AFC and NFC championship games are made up of only teams with a total score of 25+ with the exception being Buffalo and the Redskins. Nearly all of that contribution is coming on the side of the ball Allen plays on. How much influence does Allen have on Cook and some of our offensive lineman? A decent amount from my view. While Allen covers for everybody to some extent, I would argue McD has done more with less when you look at the best performing teams in the NFL. Those teams just have better players, yet we still keep matching the wins. So again, is that McD or Allen or both? Not sure. But I'm more confident in saying it can't be Beane.

All this puts us in 10-15 range in cumulative appearances in the NFL top 100, All Pro, and Pro Bowl lists. Regardless of its first, second, third teams which include hundreds of players. He’s a low “B” GM getting “A” grades from most here because Allen makes a lot of those guys you’re talking about look significantly better than they actually are. What would happen with Jared Goff behind this line. I can’t even imagine.

😂😂😂 I want ONE other all pro in 7 years who will be on our roster next year

Do you think I give Beane a hard time for his inability to add players like McGovern? Beane finds B players all the time. McGovern is not an All Pro or a top 100 player. As of last year we don’t have any top 100 players or all pros outside of Allen. B players with an MVP QB get you to the divisional round. You need at least a couple A players to go further. Thats not to mention his borderline intoxicated approaches to resolving our WR issues or DT. Depth at LB which is a problem every year. Depth in the secondary which is a problem every year. He has built two highly effective units in the 6+ years he’s been here. The offensive line and RB. That is it. No other units we have are over a B and many are lower, injury prone, or over invested for the results we have gotten.

So these are the best acquisitions we have made in two years? Are the PED’s getting to you or is it just our two most recent “impact” free agents. 😂 Don’t force this guy to think.

So we are buying the version of these guys that was PED enhanced?

MVP Beane

Beane playing 3D chess like usual.

Beane's playing 3D chess, what a witch, best in the NFL. Do I fit in yet?

My ignorance? You fan boys are calling out players who never made a pro bowl and were drafted or acquired years ago. I mean look at snappy, he's going into the Edmunds bucket. You called out Connor McGovern. I'm the ignorant one. No help for you.

Who is the last impact player we signed or drafted? Based on what?

If you have the best QB in the world vs the absolute garbage that has played QB in the AFC East for years. I mean what exactly do you expect to happen? How bad would our coaching and roster have to be to not completely run this division in the same way the Patriots did for two decades.

Yet every year we cry about being ravaged by injuries. Hell, all it took for the tears to come out this year was one CB. Josh IS carrying this team. As Brady did. As any HOF level QB is capable of doing in the modern era.

Least amount of talent of the MVP contenders and your basis to say we have a top 10 roster is air. It’s certainly not on defense. Nobody knows what this team is without Josh. He is responsible for more output individually than any offensive player in NFL history.

I’ll play, it’s not what you want but I’ll play anyway. I think the last QB to win an MVP with a TD to INT ratio under 3 throwing the ball was Brett Favre. They penalize the crap out that stat. But I imagine you’re saying because he had the least amount of talent. Which is also true, but somehow Beane is also a witch and top 3. It’s all so confusing to be honest.