Mikie2times

I don't believe I have seen this topic circle back. It doesn't seem like this play can be officiated, can't spot the ball, can't see the ball. This might be lights out. Thoughts on the offside? I imagine the Eagles will lose a pinch of effectiveness knowing the refs are going to hawking this.

This is like the Game of Throne stadium remake. These are totally bad ass. The NFL would never allow that much of the field to be occupied by anything but seats and luxury boxes.

Thats right, my bad

Since 2021 (have to start somewhere, the Bills also invested picks in 2020) The Chiefs have drafted a WR for 5 consecutive years. 1st rounder, (2) 2nd rounders, 4th rounder, and 5th rounder. So fairly high value assets. The results of those drafts are below. Jalen Royals, Xavier Worthy, Rashee Rice, Sky Moore, and Cornell Powell. The Bills have drafted a WR for 5 consecutive years as well. 1st rounder, 2 (5th's), and 6th rounder, and a 7th rounder. So fairly low value assets outside of Coleman. The results of those drafts are below. Keon Coleman, Kaden Prather, Justin Shorter, Khalil Shakir, and Marquez Stevenson. What interests me about this question is for largely two consecutive years when I have watched Chiefs games I have said to myself this has to be the worst WR group in football. I mean, we complain about our WR's, but last week it was Hollywood Brown, Taquan Thornton, and Ju Ju. Last year it was largely the same. Mind you, Worthy could very well be something, and Rice is something, but neither looks to be the most durable. Maybe that is dumb bad luck, maybe not, but the fact remains KC is consistently fielding a horrific WR core the last two years. Meanwhile back in Buffalo, we have been a bit more hesitant to invest high value here. I think it's been stated by Beane that WR is a very hard position to judge in the draft. Perhaps that is what leads to apprehensiveness. Which I largely don't agree with, however, our approach seems pretty clear. We focus this position on depth and an elevated floor vs a high ceiling, specifically with budget friendly FA acquisitions. Now one thing is for sure. We will never be running a Taquan Thornton on the field. We have good depth here. When Elijah Moore is one of your last in, that is a problem the Chiefs would love to have. But beyond the depth, you could very well argue that the returns of Coleman and Shakir rival the returns of Worthy and Rice. Rice could very well be the best of the group, but you need to play to be in the conversation. So as much as I have historically disliked our approach at WR, I think what has happened to the Chiefs is sort the reason we have that approach. I think we care more about depth and ensuring it's not a position that kills us vs reaching for the stars and missing. Further, I would argue for as much crap as we give the front office over the WR position and I still feel somewhat justifiably so, KC has done a much worse job. They have reached a critical point in talent erosion multiple years. They invested more in the draft for the same or even worse returns. Yes, a lot of bad injury luck, but nobody cares about the recipe they want to know how it tastes.

Allen was a green prospect. HE needed to develop, which he largely did on his own. Your credit for culture and environment is only apparent after it was largely given a chance to develop based on Allen being elite. No QB, no culture, no time for process. All this stuff can matter with a B talent. Give a B QB a great system and talent and it can make a difference vs a team who likely just picked top 5. It just doesn't matter when you're dealing with a Josh Allen level talent. Somebody who is that determined, that intelligent, and that self aware. The game has never failed a Josh Allen level player because the situation was just so bad it ruined the player. Yes, we can agree to disagree

Who was the QB that these franchises ruined? Who did we ruin during the drought? Somebody that would have done something if McD was around 15 years ag with our culture? The comment about coaches makes no sense. Every position on earth has a leadership role people report to that provides basic structure and strategy. Every sport has a coach and even if you're elite in that role in Football, you quickly show your worth without your star QB. Meanwhile that QB leaves and just keeps on going. Calling out Fields or Lawrence as an example of guys to justify your point makes no sense. You have to have mental make up to be successful. By your definition we can blame the Raiders for ruining Jamarcus Russell or maybe Russell is the one that couldn't hack it. This run starts and ends with Allen. It is that simple. Once his time is done we will go back to the same pool of mediocre franchises searching for a QB that we can one day credit our coach for "grooming".

This is beyond speculation and its just plan bad speculation. Both players entered the league with historically losing franchises. Both had low talent levels and roster support. Both had poor QB rooms. Dabs might be your shiny star, but that sort of fades given what Daniel Jones is doing. While also acknowledging the fact that Dabs did nothing prior. Your pushing the warm and fuzzies into the narrative years later, when Josh himself is the largest reason for the narrative. I'm sick of this mass credit to coaches for largely player driven, QB driven outcomes. Its the biggest farce in the NFL. You have 4-5 guys who are really good coaches and help the roster. You have a whole bunch who are average. Then you have 4-5 who likely hurt the teams they coach. Without that QB1 nobody is consistently over .500, if I'm wrong, show me the consistent playoff coach who isn't directly tied to a high output QB. Which you will likely say "because of coaching". Except when said QB leaves, the coach somehow never establishes the same level of success. It's a story as old as time yet people here actually think McD or Belichick or Reid are the glue. Even if they're top 5 guys, even of All Time, it falls apart without an MVP QB. 9 Super Bowls between them with the same two QB's.

It's been my contention the whole time. Do we have an excellent culture? Yes. Do we have a rare consistency that we can credit, at least, in part, to our leadership? Yes. But these concepts never become reality without winning and doing so with consistency. How many equivalent or similar GM/Coach combo's have never been able to focus on process or culture because the QB is a revolving door and they can't remain above .500? This started with Josh more than anything else and it will end with Josh. That doesn't throw shade on the work those two guys have done, but some people feel the whole thing falls apart if they aren't here. No, it falls apart if 17 is not here and that's not giving Josh too much credit. He can generate production based on his individual skills like no player in NFL history.

We have debated this before, but as happy calls out, I think the great ones will be great anywhere. Perhaps coaching and circumstance allow that to come together sooner. But these guys we are seeing boomerang are not the very best. They will ultimately prove to be starting caliber and sometimes really good QB's. Take Allen for example. He started his rookie year as all these guys did and did so for a perennial loser. His QB whisperer was a guy in New York who couldn't make Daniel Jones work and now it appears like Jones could be the next Boomerang QB. I'm sure Dabs helped Josh, but I'm more sure Josh helped himself with Jordan Palmer and the rebuild of his mechanics. You have called out how much McD is responsible for Allen. Allen was inevitable and that was because of who he is. Not anybody else. I think the culture, team, and system matter more when the guy isn't at that level. Mentally or physically. They can't overcome a bad org and bad coaching. But I don't believe the elite ones would just all of sudden not be that way in other circumstances. Perhaps the progression would be impacted, but these guys just have drive, talent, and intelligence that is at another level compared to others.

We missed an opportunity by not leveraging the 90's uniforms more. We are going to wear them one time in a game that will likely be meaningless from a result perspective and not even the final game in the stadium. I hope they rock them for the playoffs.

Josh Allen is going to do Josh Allen things. No way to stop it. His leaping is more scary IMO.

100%, I can't count how many "leaders" in business use "I" completely unaware of what it is saying to others. It's something I actually look for in all communication in my org.

Josh literally looks like a high schooler in some of these vids and it's the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. The MVP of the league looks at this with a kids excitement in his 8th season.

As a card carrying McD hater (who I will give flowers to on the start of the year) I have been consistent in praising this element of the team. Turnovers, for most teams are fairly random on the defensive side of the ball. But McD's teams historically, even dating back to Carolina, have been exceptional here. It's not random and it does directly lead to wins. When you go down the switch coaching path, that is the element I think you lose the most from. You aren't going to bring another coach in that is this successful at maximizing the turnover battle. He's elite at it, it's in the way our defenses are taught and it's very valuable.

This turnaround phenomenon is getting rather interesting, especially when you consider the parallels. Geno Smith, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold all started for franchises that are poorly ran. They all started year 1. Daniel Jones is likely going to be the next one on this list. Outside of the bad franchise part, perhaps an element exists just not being burdened by expectations. It has to be a bit much to be a 21 year old tasked with turning around a dysfunctional franchise. Most of which are still dysfunctional years later. To go into a situation largely free of expectations but with the experience of your past. It has to be a pretty damn good feeling for some of these guys.

Still like the shout song more TBH

Save the tricks for postseason as far as I'm concerned

What makes me laugh is the people already trying to cash receipts on "nailing" the Chiefs demise. Forget that fact that they have been predicting it incorrectly for 3 years now. It's week three, and the current starting WR's are Tyquan Thornton, a beat up Hollywood Brown, and JuJu. I wish they wouldn't figure it out, but they will enough to at least get in. At which point they're obviously dangerous to anybody.

This is about where I'm at as well. Although I think they will look a lot different with Rice and Worthy. They will need to fix the line. Mahomes was seeing ghosts vs the Eagles. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they really turn it around, but even so, not getting the bye and fighting in that division all year will take its toll.

It's an incredible statistic given the correlation to winning

You don't think they will make the playoffs?

flex after the seasons over

Week 2 McD Dunk thread….never gets old.

Cool, let’s do the McD, Playoff thread, bla bla bla again.