CincyBillsFan

I don't have to pretend that Allen is playing well because the evidence overwhelmingly confirms that he's playing well. Passing: 70.3% completion rate; 2139 yards; 15 TD's & 5 INT's and a QB rating of 105.7 Rushing: 311 yards; 7 TD's & 2 lost fumbles Total Offensive Output: 2450 yards; 22 TD's & 7 TO's. He's on pace here for a season with 4626 total yards; 41 TD's & 13 TO's. What Allen isn't doing is playing at an MVP level. He's not at an A+ for the season he's instead fluctuating between a B+/A-.

Did you actually read those sources? My point has been that Allen did not push Bean to draft Coleman. At most Allen approved of the decision and then welcomed Coleman to the Bills. There is nothing in those sources indicating anything more then this.

I also suspect that this a result of the steady transition of the Bills offense to a road grading run first structure. The goal is to have the best run blocking line in the NFL which by definition will result in a loss of pass pro effectiveness.

I could buy into this. But that's a far cry from Allen wanting Coleman or that he exerted pressure to draft him.

But we will do it on 4th & 1 to fool the other team.

I have an idea for who comes after McD/Bean and I suspect people won't like it: How about Robert Salah as HC and Daboll as OC? The Jets had great defenses when Salah was head coach. His primary responsibility would be to fix the Bills D while DaBoll would be given cart blanche to run the offense. The Bills would go back to letting Allen be Allen and design their offense and structure their roster accordingly. Salah would love coaching a team with a real QB and sane owner while the chance to get back at the Jets twice per year would be very appealing. Both Salah & DaBoll are available this off season and I suspect they both would jump at the chance.

Remember when Bean brought back Brown & Beasley late i the season and they both caught TD passes!

I disagree. Bean, Brady & McD wanted Coleman and Allen thought he looked like he could be very good. Are you suggesting that Allen vetted Coleman and not the Bills scouts? And for the record once the decision was made to stay in their original draft spot and they looked at the likely WR's available there Coleman was attractive. He had many of the attributes that the Bills WR room lacked. And if they wanted to make Allen really happy I suspect offering to trade their 2025 #1 pick to move into the top 15 and grab one of the lottery WR's would have gone a lot further then Coleman.

I disagree. If you look at all the QB's that have won a Super Bowl I would guess that the vast majority of them are/were Company Men starting with Tom Brady & Patrick Mahomes. Brady didn't push back on Belicheck until he was well over 40 years old and had won 6 Super Bowls.

Did you red the text? It was exactly what you would want from your franchise QB after the decision was made. There is nothing in that CBS story that indicated Allen helped make that pick. The Bills scoring operation vetted Coleman and Allen probably said something along the lines of "yea, he looks good. go for it". Once the decision as made to draft Coleman, which had to be Beans, Allen was all in. Do you think things would have played out that day any differently if the Bills had taken McConkey?

No he isn't. Everyone keeps posting about how "Allen pushed for Coleman" when there isn't the slightest proof that happened. And in fact it goes against how low key Allen appears to be in these things. And please don't link to the article saying how Allen sent Coleman a text saying "welcome to the Bills" and he was looking forward to "working with him". That's what every QB would do. And it's no big deal that the text went out before the Friday draft started as the Bills had the first pick that day. You don't have to be Ian Rappaport to figure out what probably happened. Bean told Allen in the days leading up to the draft that the Bills were going to take a WR with their #1 pick. I'm sure Allen got excited and Bean then probably told Allen what the parameters were going to be and who was likely going to be available at that point and he asked Allen for his opinion. Obviously an athletic, big bodied WR was the Bills greatest need and would appeal to Allen. And given that the Bills had Shakir guys like MaConkey would be less appealing. But Allen didn't vet these receivers the Bills scouting staff did. Allen likely got sheets with the pros & cons of the guys who the Bills were thinking of selecting late in the 1st round. Do you or anyone else believe for one minute that Bean went to Allen and said "hey Josh we want to draft a WR in the 1st round and we're vacillating between moving up in the draft and taking one of the studs or staying put and taking one of the guys late in the 1st" and Allen then pushed back and said "Brandon I love this guy Coleman, lets just stay put and pick him". If you haven't figured this out by now Allen is the consummate Company man. He will support whatever senior management wants to do.

The WR group is much worse this year then last year and as you noted last years group did not exactly wow anyone. Another thing that has happened is last year was the beginning of the offensive transformation from a high risk/high reward design to the low risk, short passing, run heavy unit we see today. Remember how the Bills turned it loose and went back to that old Dorsey/DaBoll offense in games against the Rams and Lions? They would not and likely could not do that this season. They should have abandoned their stodgy offense mid way through the 2nd quarter against Miami when it became apparent that the Dolphins were committed 100% to shutting down the Brady bulldozer offense. Just like they turned it off against LA & Detroit last season. To me last season was great because it showed that they could be flexible on offense. This season with the exception of the 4th quarter against Baltimore they are showing no flexibility and are almost insanely being stubborn about what they're doing on offense. And given that you have one of the most uniquely flexible QB's to ever play the game, it borders on lunacy how they have employed Allen. One final note. IMO and I don't think this should be controversial, in fact it's a Captain Obvious statement, the primary goal of the offense is to score points. It's not to chew up time, except in specific situations like at the end of the half or game. And while you want to minimize TO's you can't make an offense so timid and afraid to turn the ball over that they don't take the risks needed to create explosive plays. This would be like asking the D to not blitz because occasionally a team can exploit the blitz to make a big play. The bottom line is that asking an offense to balance what it does so that not only must it score points but do it in such a way that protects your defense is a recipe for problems.

I also thought we would see an improved passing game but it relied on the following things happening: 1) Coleman improving, 2) Kincaid improving & 3) Palmer/Moore being an upgrade over Hollins/Cooper. Unfortunately only one of those three happened (Kincaid improved). It is painfully obvious that the current WR room is significantly worse then last years rather mediocre group. In fact the current group has dropped below what would be considered a minimally talented NFL WR unit. Your Cooper point is interesting. While Allen never developed a highly productive relationship with Cooper they did connect on some great pass plays while Cooper was in the game. Some of those long sideline completions were works of art that the current ctrop of WR's can not duplicate.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. I'm as frustrated as the rest of you and there does seem to be something different about this teams struggles compared to previous seasons, BUT......................... 2021: The Bills drop to 7 - 6 and trail the 9 - 4 Patriots, who already beat the Bills in Highmark stadium by 3 games! We all know what happened next. 2023: The Bills drop to 6 - 6 and trail the Miami Dolphins, who they beat earlier in the season at Highmark, by 3 games. In both those years and a lot later in the season, the Bills were in much worse shape then they are now. I don't know how this year will play out but the Bills have been there and done that twice before in the last 5 seasons.

Some of that is Allen's escapability. I see a lot of QB's take sacks that Allen eludes and extends the play. But overall the pass pro is good which is an even stronger indictment of the receivers not getting separation or responding properly on plays where Allen is scrambling. That the Bills miss the contributions of Davis & Hollins is we need to know about the current problems.

I agree. What we're seeing is by design. The problem is that those tasked with selecting the offensive talent and designing the structure to execute this style of offense have so far failed at their job. It's obvious to those of us who follow the Bills closely that something is off with the passing game. I don't need Joe Marino, alt 22 or advanced analytics to see it. Even going back to the late 60's/early 70's when almost every offense pounded the ball first and emphasized the run game they had at least one big play WR. Think Warren Wells, Otis Taylor, Fred Biletnikoff and Don Maynard to name just 4 from Super Bowl winning teams. This has been pretty much a constant for most SB teams. The Chiefs sort of bucked the trend one season but they still had a 1st ballot, elite pass catching TE on the field.

I don't think it's over yet either. But time is running out. In 2 of the last 5 seasons I've seen the Bills overcome worse situations then they are in now. So it would not surprise me to see them go on a run. But it also would not surprise me to see them fall flat on their face and struggle to have a winning record. And that is different then how I've felt at this point in any of the last 5 seasons.

And this is what really worry's me. If the McD advantage is the culture he created then consistency and motivated effort should be hallmarks of a superior NFL culture. But increasingly we're seeing cracks in that. The Bills have managed to lose to 2 teams that have gone 4 - 13 versus teams not named the Bills by a combined score of 54 - 27! That is different then what we've seen before.

In the years the Chiefs O struggled they had a very good defense, particularly in the playoffs. And the Chiefs WR room from last season was much better then the Bills current room. This may change when Palmer gets back and if Davis can contribute.

It's not whether or not Palmer and Davis can save the Bills WR room. It a question of whether or not they can elevate it from being hopelessly ineffective to being an average unit. If they do that we might actually notice a big improvement in the passing game. The only WR group worse then this one in the Josh Allen era was the 2018 WR room. If this seasons Bills receivers can just get to the level of the 2019 group it will seem explosively better in comparison to what we're currently seeing.

That big QB contract doesn't seem to inhibit the Chiefs & Eagles from reaching and winning Super Bowl games years after year. There is a limit to how much better Allen can make players around him. At some point there is nothing Allen can do. The Bills are being greedy with Allen and they're asking to much of him. Sure Allen has the type of personality that takes on that burden but it's up to Bean & McD to make sure there is a balance. That we have been so close to the Chiefs in the playoffs is entirely due to Allen's elite QB play in those games.

I think we're just talking past each other here. The examples I gave are of HC/GM pairs who reached the pinnacle, had an elite QB under a big contract and reloaded to make another run to the Super Bowl. McD/Bean have failed to successfully RELOAD and we're nearing the point where we may need to rebuild. And I don't want them involved in the rebuild. The only caveat I would throw out is that I'm waiting until the end of this season before deciding that they did in fact fail to reload. If the Bills go on a run and they very well might, then Bean/McD pulled off the reload. Only time will tell.

It wasn't "garbage time" until McD inexplicably had our RB attempt an onside kick down 23 - 13 with 3 minutes left and the Bills having all 3 TO's and the 2 minute warning. And for the record Allen made several great plays on that drive that ended in the INT in the 3rd quarter. And again the problem isn't any one game. It's a WR room full of players who can't get open or make the tough NFL level catches every other contending team gets. It's a defense that on Miami's SECOND possession lets them go 92 yards in 7 minutes & 30 seconds to score the games first TD. It's an offensive coordinator who calls for a pass on 4th & 1 right after a Miami TO exposed they were going to pass on that down! It's a defense who allows huge game breaking TD runs at crucial moments in the game. Allen is not the problem and his play today is not the issue. The issues are how this team has been built, injury's and the under performance of so many key players around Allen.

Not every week but on occasion you need to win those games just like you need to win a 41 - 40 game. Ditto for the Chiefs & Eagles.

Allen made some of his signature jaw dropping plays today and he also made a couple of bad mistakes. So what. The problem isn't Allen it's what's around him. Almost no one steps up to help Allen and the D puts the O in tough situations over and over again. Throw in same bad coaching decisions and as the game progresses we see Allen get antsy and start pushing. This leads to both good & bad plays. My point with the "trade Allen" crap is that some of you people obsess over the little things with Allen while ignoring the huge issues around the organization. It's exasperating and some of us throw a variation of the Greenberg idea out there for effect.