CincyBillsFan

I'm very confident that the best college QB's are having a much easier time adjusting to the NFL then their predecessors ever did. I've watched NFL football for 60 years and can't think of a time with more high quality young QB's. Hell, every year guys from college show up and tear the league a new one. IMO we are seeing the best and most productive QBing in the history of the NFL and it has a lot to do with the high quality training these guys are getting in youth & college football. Down here in Cincinnati the youth & high school football is very advanced. My grandson is a WR and his team mostly was in 3 & 4 wide out sets. They all had to look to the sideline to see what hand signals the offensive coordinator (yes they had an offensive coordinator in 7th grade) was using to call the play. They routinely moved back and forth from spread to tight formations based on the call. They employed motion on a 3rd of their plays. They played 11 games inducing 2 playoff games and 10 of those teams were heavy shotgun users.

AMEN and agree 100%.

Not today. Three anecdotal observations: 1) Down here in Cincy they're having a discussion about why Burrow must "learn" to play under center more. Evidently he wants to take the vast majority of the snaps from shotgun. 2) Watch a Saturday's worth of college football and tell me how many snaps are in shotgun versus under center. 3) My grandsons 7th grade team had their very good QB take about 95% of the snaps from the shotgun. Ditto for every team they played but one.

I'll answer you after I've seen the Thursday injury report. Kincaid going full all week and Palmer playing would have me feeling pretty good knowing that Spags is going to commit to shutting down Cook. On the other hand if Kincaid is limited all week and Palmer doesn't play I have a b feeling about the game.

Fair points about the health of Davis and Bean was 100% correct not to pay him 13 million dollars per year. At the same time and considering all of his short comings what Bills WR among Coleman, Moore, Palmer & Shavers has shown even a fraction of the big plays and production that Davis did over the course of a season? I hold out hope for Palmer but that's it.

I see no value in placing Allen's play under a microscope and nit picking his every throw. Of course Allen is not without blame here. But from what I can see the critique of Allen is that he isn't elite in every game. IMO that is an unrealistic expectation of any player. I could put together a 30 minute highlight reel of Allen making amazing plays through the first 7 games of this season. If you combined ALL the WR plays how many would truly be amazing? With the exception of Shakir's elite RAC plays the Bills WR's have not done much that would make anyone's highlight reel. As for saying that some of us are acting like "mother hens" protecting Allen all I can say is that Allen has earned it with years of elite play. Who else on the Bills can say that? Maybe Cook but his exceptional play has only been for a year and a half. I'm just not ready to embrace posts critical of Allen. They reek of "what have you done for me lately". That might change if I see a season long Allen slump where he doesn't put the cape on. And for the record there is a difference between an in the moment harsh of criticism of a bad Allen throw, which I have shouted at the TV on more then one occasion, and having entire treads wondering if his married life is causing him to now "suck". As for Marino I like and respect his opinion but I suspect there's more context here then you're admitting. IMO the issues with the Bills passing game, in order of importance are: * Lack of WR's that are effective at the boundary and can stretch defenses downfield. In fact the Bills have a bottom 5 WR room by any reasonable measure. * The design & structure of the passing game and the new emphasis on running the football. McD & Brady are robbing "Peter to pay Paul". * Allen is not as good a QB under center as he is in shotgun. I have confidence that Allen will improve here but the poor WR room complicates things. * The O line is better at run blocking then pass protection. And the low number of Allen sacks is due more to Allen's ability to escape then the O line maintaining the pocket. I suspect that if you fix the WR room so that it is average by NFL standards you will see a significant improvement in the passing game.

Which is still better then the current crop of "no play" boundary WR's. Beggars can't be choosers and it seemed like both Davis & Hollins had a knack of linking up with Allen on those off structure plays that Coleman/Morre/Palmer/Shavers haven't shown yet.

I guess we'll see when Allen actually has a game like that. What I wonder is why some of you guys have this weird fetish to throw shade at Allen and demand that we all agree he's been playing like crap? Sure , Allen hasn't put up the big numbers we're used to the last few games but he's hardly played badly. The most accurate description is that over the last 3 games Allen has been average.

Allen always admits it's his fault and I dispute that Bills media guys are pinning a lot of the struggles on Allen. Sure Allen could be playing sharper and he has been a part of the passing games problem but I've heard a lot of Bills and National NFL media types repeatedly pointing out that the WR's are not getting open. I would add that over the last 2 games the WR's on 3 separate occasions failed to make NFL level catches along the sidelines that would have converted 3rd down. Last night you saw 2 Washington WR's make tight toe tapping sideline catches. The only thing that makes sense is that Coleman dominates the Bills DB's in practice.

All true, BUT, you also saw Davis get open deep, make tough toe tap sideline catches and he had a knack of coming back to the ball and helping out his QB when the pocket breaks down. With the current crop of WR's I've seen very little of any of these things.

In the 2nd half. They struggled in the first half.

I agree. On the replay that's exactly what it looked like to me to.

Another fantastic catch by an NFL WR.

Does he? Mahomes moves in and out of the pocket trying to extend the play. His reward is often seeing wide open receivers.

If Lattimore was a high school football player he would be running sprints tomorrow for that weak attempt to recover that fumble.

Watching tonight's game provides all the answers to your questions: * I've seen wide open receivers for both teams multiple times tonight. I saw 1 wide open Bill downfield the last 2 Bills games. * Tonight 2 Commander WR's made toe tapping catches within inches of the sideline. An expected catch by an NFL WR. The last 2 games I've seen 3 different Bills WR's unable to keep their feet in bounds on virtually the same passes. All 3 would have converted 3rd downs and extended drives. As others have pointed out in the absence of Palmer, Brady & Allen do not trust the WR's to make plays downfield. BTW, against the Falcons, Allen hit Palmer for downfield completions of 18 & 52 yards on their first 2 possessions before Palmer left with an injury.

BTW, has anyone else noticed how 2 different Washington WR's have made toe tap catches within inches of the sideline. That is expected from NFL boundary WR's.

As Peter, Paul & Mary would say "Only if you lay it between the lines".

Only the NFL can call something "expedited" when siting on my fat @$$ drinking a beer I had already seen the replay showing he didn't make it a minute before the ref made it official.

And with the failure of their opening scripted drive this game is going to get ugly for the Commanders.

No one is denying Allen's involvement in picking a WR. That's a given. What some of us dispute is the notion that Allen worked hard to get Coleman picked over other options. The argument that we needed someone like Coleman was sound and I'm sure Bean & Allen talked about the need for a big bodied boundary receiver who could turn 50/50 catches into 80/20 ones. My disagreement is with the idea that Allen exerted pressure on the Bills scouting staff and GM to take a guy that they didn't really want and they drafted Coleman to keep Allen happy. IMO the evidence is that Bean & Co. selected the guy that they believed best fit their need within the framework of the draft capital they were willing to part with. Allen was asked to sign off and he did. As an aside, I'm not ready to write Coleman off yet. I've seen enough flashes over the last 20 games to believe that he might still develop into the high end WR they thought they drafted. I have this feeling that Coleman's story is not done yet.

Again, this is what you would expect from Allen who at that moment in time knew that the Bills were drafting Coleman. It's the classy and constructive thing to do but doesn't support the idea that Allen facilitated this pick over any others. I am convinced that if Bean had shown Allen tape of McConkey and then told Allen that was who they were drafting Allen would also have been supportive and sent Ladd a text before the official selection. Do you really think Allen would have said "hell no, I want Coleman" if Bean went up to him before the draft and told him the Bills were going to try to jump up in the 1st round to grab one of the stud WR's that were available?

Like you I had unrealistically high expectations. In any given season we should not be falling for the hype that places our team in the Super Bowl with the number one seed. The realistic expectation this season was that the Bills would win their division and win a playoff game or two. I'm actually more connected now then I was at the start of the season. The Bills future is now an undiscovered country and I'm curious as to which way the season will go.

Check this catch out yesterday by a Colts WR. Do you think Danny Dimes appreciates this?

By saying that Allen is the primary reason the Bills have been to the playoffs 6 straight seasons, have won 5 straight division titles and have been a leading SB contender the last 5 seasons is not the same thing as saying Allen is the "savior" and is "perfect". Clearly no NFL QB is perfect or even close to being perfect throughout an entire season. And those of us defending Allen have never said he was. But you are deluding yourself if you think that this team minus Allen would have had near the success it has had over the last 6 seasons. And yes McD & Bean are good at their jobs. The question has always been are they good enough?