Tyrod's friend

Things that are not myths: he was raised in an affluent, and well educated Left Coast household he is by all accounts very intelligent. There is considerable noise about his Liberal politics; given where he was brought up, this seems probable he does not have a problem with challenging the status quo; even the Sporting News indicated how outspoken he is his first sport was tennis, not another team sport like baseball or even basketball he has chosen to leave his team a year early. he is Jewish You have a coach and entire culture that is built around accepting a process, and in fact I would think discourages those that choose to be outspoken. A head coach that values - highly - seniors in college. A head coach that praised Jesus Christ. In point of fact, his brand new backup QB bears a cross as a tattoo in the middle of his chest, and is a notable supporter of Donald Trump (or at least was). His new defensive lineman (and I have no idea of what he believes in regarding God) seems to be cut of a very close cloth mentally to McCarron. Be aware, I am not saying that Coach McDermott is dictating faith to his players. I'm pretty sure that most of that locker room has no connection to God whatsoever; it is the nature of 28 year old men. And I am not saying that Jewish, outspoken, intelligent QBs can't accept a process and fall into line. I'm not even saying that McD and Beane are curating potential players based on faith or education levels. I think it is reasonable, in fact, plainly obvious, that you are presenting a cultural clash by introducing Josh Rosen into that room. That everything about him screams that he is not the sort of guy McDermott and Beane have been shown to favor. Kyle Williams is loved by the coaching staff because he put everything on the line for his team; think about Kyle, think about McCarron, and think about Murphy and tell me you honestly cannot see where those dots might lead you away from Josh Rosen. Side note: I am trying very much not to make this about religion, but if you ignore completely the Jewish culture, it's Talmudic emphasis on both education and questioning the world around you, its stridently Left politics, well ... I think you are missing the point here completely. And for what it's worth - I think Josh Rosen will be a helluva professional QB. But culture comes first. ,

There was plenty of noise regarding his disrespecting some players as well - particularly those that weren't up to his standards. What follows is what I surmise and do not know, but I think I am entirely on point here: I think Rosen is an extremely intelligent person, one that comes from a liberal left coast upbringing. It is not above him to challenge and question everything around him and take nothing at face value. The QB we just brought in is a Christian, first and foremost. He wears a cross in the middle of his chest; he's supported Donald Trump; and he's come to work for a head coach that speaks passionately about acceptance of a process and thanks God at every press conference. The new DLman - and I know nothing about his religion or politics - is likewise cut from a cloth that sounds perfectly aligned with what McDermott has come to represent. To me? Rosen and McDermott would never, ever co-exist well. I am not trying to say that McD is anti-Semitic, or only wants Christians in his lockerroom. But part of the faith of truly reborn Christians is about submitting the self to the larger organism, to the larger path. For the life of me, I can't see Josh Rosen in that lockerroom. (Not to mention, he came out as a junior and McD has been quite expressive about staying with seniors. And if you think about it, in talking about being a senior he's talking about commitment.) [edit: please do not lecture me about Judiasm, about whether they can follow that path or suggest some sort of anti-Semitic tirade against me. My mother is Jewish, and a good portion of her family died in the concentration camps.]

LOL. Well ... I'll try to ignore the elephant in the room.

yup. His mom ain't far behind either. Of course, I'm 60 so she'd be cradle robbing for me.

Basically - what I hear/see. Looking at NFL Tracker, as an example - their top rated QB has in fact been picked first/second since 2012, so there's that. And they do in fact rate Darnold considerably ahead of any other QB in the draft. The dispersion between the #1 rated QB and the #2 rated QB has never been greater. It's one data point, not the only thing. Nobody puts Rosen with the Browns, and at most it winds up Allen v Darnold. Darnold is consistently at least the #2 guy; the deviation of opinions on Allen is much greater. So it seems quite likely to me that Darnold goes #1. (Browns being Browns, nobody knows.) At the end of the day, at MOST you can say there is no clear QB. If this is the case then it makes my point very strongly. If there is no difference, the smart play is to let all the other fools stumble all over themselves to getting basically equal talent. By time the third round opens, there will be at least four different options available. It will be sort of like the McCarron deal, all over again.

I'd disagree with the 83 draft, if only because 2012 is so much more recent and similar on so many levels. The first pick was universal, and owned by the Colts and they took Luck. Similarly, I think Darnold is ahead of the next guy and is owned by the Browns who should take him. We know what happened to the team that moved up to get Griffin - their draft was a wasteland for the next two years and the organization was hurt. Their only recourse was that their fourth round pick hit. Will we play the role of the Redskins here? Or Philadelphia? The difference is that in 2016 there simply wasn't the depth of QBs thought to be roughly equivilant. There wasn't much of a choice - either you had Wentz or Goff. The thing is that all 8 2012 QBs were considered - at the least, by NFL Tracker - close. And all of the QBs achieved differing levels of success. There wasn't any need to leap forward. I'd say go big or go backward. Play for Darnold, and impact to be damned for future organization impact. Wentz, Winston, Mariotta, Luck, and yeah, Griffin - get it. If it costs 12, 22 and next years 1st, so be it. Get the #1 pick in the draft. Cleveland has shown they are stupid enough to make the deal.

I could easily see them either are moving all the way to the top, or not taking a QB until the third round. There is no significant difference between half a dozen QBs after #1. Mostly, likely, average NFL QBs at best or guys that will need time to learn. Personally I think it's Darnold or try to grab Falk or Lauletta at 65 or less. (Notable, both of those guys are seniors.) This is a management team more than willing to take all of you losing your heads because they didn't do what you wanted them to do.

If the consensus view is correct - that there is one guy (Darnold, presumably) and the rest are clustered - it makes so much sense to stand down, fill out the roster. I could easily see Evans and taking a QB as late as #65 - or even later! Once the first wave of QBs leave the list of availables, the rest will tumble.

The GM, about four weeks ago.

His intelligence, his maturity, his passion, his faith ... he's a McDermott wet dream. I don't honestly know how any Bills fan can read this and think for a second that the Bills want Josh Rosen in their lockerroom.

I think it would be idiotic for the Browns to pass on Darnold - absolutely insane. Do what you need to in order to get the RB, after you've secured the QB. QBs play forever, RBs are done at 30. Naturally, the Browns being the Browns there's a 50% chance they do something stupid. And if they do, there is nothing in the world you wouldn't give to the Giants to move up and get him. It's Darnold, or stay at 12.

There is plenty of noise by posters about this being the "Best Year Ever" for QBs. I just wanted to look back at NFL Tracker to find those QBs that were ranked as an Eventual Starter (5.4 ranking, roughly) since 2012. This year there are 8 QBs ranked to be reasonable starters by NFL Tracker. Of them, 4 are considered "Early Starters" - so 1st year guys. Only 1 is considered to be Pro Bowl material. We can go back to 2012 and we have a good number of QBs, so a statistical analysis (and this isn't one) is reasonable. But we have numbers at least. This year has one of the greatest discrepancies between the best and the second best QBs. Darnold's distance from the other top three is pretty huge. Eight is a lot; but there were 9 as recently as 2016. There were 8 in 2017. There is a lot of players below 5.4 but 8 Eventual Starters isn't a lot. Four Early Starters aren't an anomaly either. It doesn't have the best talent at the top; Darnold isn't near Luck and there have been several years where there were two truly great choices. Several years there were barely three QBs that could have been rated even Eventual Starter. Since we took EJM one of those years, it's reasonable for us to have some cognitive dissonance here. More importantly to the idea of cognitive dissonance, most of the barren years were recently. 2012 is the most similar year, 7 rated "Starter" and the eighth was Russell Wilson at just a hair under. All 8 became NFL starters and arguably the 8th was the best (Luck or Wilson? I like Wilson's wife so he wins). However there was veritably no difference between 1 & 2. From where I sit, 2012 was easily the year of the decade although I guess we'll see. The distance between the top QB and the top overall rated athlete this year is close to the best player overall. But the distance between every other QB ranked in this draft, and the best players available, is the largest over the 8 year period. There are 15 players considered more likely to be Pro Bowl player than the 2nd ranked QB. Is it worth anything? Maybe not. It helps me to recognize this isn't the best year ever for QBs and it isn't even the best year this decade. It's actually closer to a normal year. It puts my mind at ease for simply staying at 12, and even more so if I think that Mayfield, Rosen and Allen will be gone by then - thus pushing better players toward 12 and ultimately 22. It honestly wouldn't surprise me to see our GM push taking a QB into the 2nd round - especially with the (misguided?) faith in Peterman. Just thought I'd put it out there. You can feel free to pick it apart; writing it out helped me clear my mind a bit. Cheers.

Perhaps this has been written elsewhere in the thread, but ... this was among the comments as the guy came out of college. Process, process, process. Just high quality people first. It's things like this quote that would shock me to hear us taking Josh Rosen. "Tough, smart and hardworking with a throwback personality. Leader vocally and by example. Will hold teammates accountable and represent the program with class."

Honestly. It's bad weather in Buffalo maybe one Sunday in December since 1998, and there's a reasonable chance we're out of town that weekend. Sure we get a day like last year. But you sure don't change the kinds of players you draft because of one Sunday.

I would have generally agreed - I couldn't see the connection why Cleveland would want to trade down. The retirement of Thomas changes that in a hurry. There is really only one OT in this draft, and it's McGlinchey and 12 is the perfect place to get that OT.

This, gentlemen, is what cheering for the Oakland Athletics about 15 years ago used to feel like.

LOL. Yeah. I'm thinking you have a girlfriend that's 10 times better looking. it's 10:45 and Miss America ain't walking in your door, Captain Critical.

Out of her league? LMAO. Everyone is out of Katherine Webb's league. The guy has to stand behind her to hide the 24 hour boner he carries.

I have no point. I often have no point. It's part of my charm ... I'm 60, so she'll be a rock star til I die. Her and Elle MacPherson, the two women that made a deal with the Devil himself.

If we sign a backup like Tim Tebow, and all he does is take us to the playoffs, and you think he's a terrible starting QB, then I really don't know what to say. If you are looking for more than that at this point on the carousel then well ... It's 4 AM and Miss America ain't coming in the bar. Playing big in the big games as a starter is someone that doesn't choke, and rises to the occasion. I like that in a QB.

Yeah - I recognized that I was confusing the specifics of the two QBs right after I posted that. However he did beat LSU for the title in 12 against a team stacked with NFL defensive talent. The other title game was against T'eo and the Irish; but he also beat two NFLers in Georgia along the way. Confession that I did have to look that up. Tebow, I think, only makes my point stronger. Success at the highest level in the biggest games, and all.

at the end of the day, what does it say about Cleveland? They were willing to trade - what? a second and a third? - for McCarron, who now nobody wants. Then they traded a third for a QB we CLEARLY didn't want.

How can you honestly definitively say this? None of us have the least possible notion if he stinks as a starting QB. Did you think about that post before you made it? The last time he sustained as a starting QB he was winning, like, three straight national championship games against some of the fiercest defenses college football has seen. Didn't he beat ... LSU a couple of times? I can't claim to know the guy well. But I know what I don't know.

Not to debate this value chart thing endlessly, but I'll disagree. Redskins move from 6 to 2 to pick up their Franchise QB. This is post-rookie cap moves. The value chart says it's 1000 point differential. They also give up a 1st in each of the next two years. It is typical to at least discount the next year's pick by one round. The mid-value of a 2nd rounder is roughly 350 points. If anything, they gave up less to get the franchise QB. Trubisky trade is awfully close as well; a 400 point differential gets #67 or 255 points. The rest of the trade is barely equal to the other 150 points. Plenty of examples where the draft chart works, or closely enough to make it relevant. [Edit: I think that this thing about the Trade Value Chart not having relevance is overdone. Yes, teams have their own format, but for the most part? Yeah, from what I see it holds true.]

As of now, I don't see the Browns trading with anyone out of the top 4. Darnold/Rosen is to Taylor as Barkley is to Hyde. They have sufficient firepower with the remainder of their picks to complete the change over and the two veterans are signed to essentially a 1 year and a 2 year contract.