SoTier

Thanks for the enlightenment. I think that many of those conspiracy theories, though, rather quickly crossed over to real conspiracies because evidence that there was some truth to them was found. The Business Coup was discovered before it took place. President Kennedy nixed the CIA's terror plot they intended to blame on Cuba. The 1970s CIA assassination plots were discovered by Congress only a few years in.

I don't think you understand the difference between a conspiracy and a conspiracy theory. If something illegal or sinister or unethical, occurs that's the result of two or more people planning it, that's a conspiracy. Conspiracies leave clues that remain available after the fact to investigators -- conspirators themselves, people that conspirators may have confided in or confessed to or who may have seen something/heard relevant to the conspiracy, forensic evidence, various paper or electronic records, surveillance film or photos, etc. Investigators may not be able to gather enough evidence to convict the conspirators in a court of law or it may take them many years to get enough evidence to do so, but there is always some evidence of the conspiracy very early on in any investigation. An example of a famous conspiracy in the US: Oklahoma City Bombing A conspiracy theory is an alleged conspiracy that's lacking with any substantial evidence that an a conspiracy exists. The supposed "evidence" that supports conspiracy theories is most often denial that a single individual could have carried out the action so there must be others involved. Another kind of "evidence" believers cite to support some conspiracy theories is pseudo-science or debunked science. Frequently supporters of conspiracy theories may cite coincidences or omissions or mistakes as "evidence" of a conspiracy by someone. Conspiracy theories linger for decades because no evidence ever comes to light, no matter how much rehashing of the facts. There are no death bed confessions from co-conspirators. No researchers working on other historical events about the same time never find some physical evidence that sheds new light on anything.

Name three conspiracy theories that have been around for a quarter of a century or more that have been proven true. I asked you this question before at the beginning of this thread and you never answered, so answer it now or you will prove that you are the one who is " not a serious person or you live in an echo chamber" -- and that you no respect others' view:

What conspiracy theories have been "proven correct"? After 60 years, there's as much proof that the CIA killed Kennedy as there is that the Cubans, Russians or Mafia killed him. John Wilkes Booth died in a barn in southern Virginia in April 1865. FDR didn't know about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor before it happened. Hitler didn't escape to South America. Astronauts landed on the moon several times. 9/11 wasn't "an inside job". Speculation, rumors, coincidences, debunked pseudo-scientific theories and outright lies do not constitute "proof". For years, the general assumption has been that Brett Favre was a douche because he wasn't particularly helpful to Rodgers when both were on the Packers. Now, Favre is no prize as a person but maybe it wasn't just Favre.

Let me guess, you're Russ Brandon's mom or RB himself. Amirite? I've never given out 2 vomit emojis to any poster until this thread.

How would a 5th or 6th round draft pick make the team "BETTER OVERALL"? The Bills are already "younger and cheaper". Furthermore, the Bills can't afford to trade Milano because of the cap hit. Dude, wake up and smell the coffee. The Bills have already gotten "younger and cheaper". They don't need to trade away one of their best defenders for next to nothing. This trade idea conjures up shades of the Bills back in the darkest days of the Drought when Russ Brandon traded future HOF LT Jason Peters for a pick at the bottom of the first round and a couple of years later traded away future All Pro RB Marshawn Lynch for a fourth rounder.

I think that most teams benefit from the "us against the world" mentality, but it can be especially helpful to talented teams that need to get more focus or have had some setbacks.

Obviously, you haven't paid attention to the Chiefs' road to their back-to-back Lombardis. With the salary cap, the only teams that don't have to regularly replace good/great expensive veterans with younger and/or less expensive players are those that don't have to pay a franchise QB. Looking objectively at the players the Bills released/traded/did not re-sign this season, only Diggs, Floyd, and Morse would qualify as "good/great players" that the Bills will miss. Hyde and Poyer weren't nearly as good last year as they had been in past seasons. Tre White has been a non-factor because of injury for more than 2 seasons. Gabe Davis was too inconsistent a WR for the Bills to pay him the $13 million a year. Moreover, during the Bills late season winning streak, it was younger players like Kinkaid and Shakir who took up the slack when Diggs and Davis just seemed to disappear. The OP's point was that "the sky isn't really falling" which is what one would think if one relied on the national media for all your Bills news. That's a reasonable opinion at this time, especially since the roster isn't nearly complete yet. It's entirely possible that the Bills find a replacement for Diggs, Floyd or Morse in the upcoming draft. If Beane hits a proverbial "home run" in the draft, the Bills could draft 2 or 3 guys who are significantly better than the players from 2023 roster from the get-go. Then there are players who will become available after June 1st when the Bills will have some money to sign FAs by then. Of course, you can continue to live under a dark cloud the rest of the spring and summer if that's you're thing.

^^^ From the mocks I've seen, it seems likely that 4 QBs and 6 OTs plus 1 TE go in the first round, all before #28. The top 3 WRs will be gone before long before #28, so these will account for about half the picks before #28. It seems to me that the Bills could very well stay put or trade up just a couple of spots and grab a really good WR. As the OP pointed out, numerous WR1s have come out of the bottom of the first and the second round. Just because a draftnik or pundit gives Player A a first round grade and Player B a second round grade means nothing. It's their opinions, and their livelihoods don't depend upon them getting the picks right -- just that their opinions draw viewers, clicks, interest etc. Moreover, taking a WR high in the first round doesn't guarantee success, even with a QB like Allen. I'd rather the Bills select a prospect in a different position if he's a better prospect than any of the WRs left, or even trade back some spots, rather than take a WR whom they're only lukewarm about just to take a WR in the first.

I'm in the segment of fans that think that the Bills need more difference makers, so I would consider a trade for Jefferson because he's definitely one. There's no guarantee that any WR we draft would develop into one ... or even be very good ... so I wouldn't trade much to move up in the draft to grab one. OTOH, I don't believe that a great WR is a necessity, so if the Bills can grab a prospective difference maker who is an IOLer or DB or DLer, I want them to go for it and take a WR later in the draft.

That's why I didn't vote. 😁

Because we could very well wind up with Corey Davis and Zay Jones. You trade for a young veteran because he's a known commodity. Agree. A great QB needs protection and weapons. The Bills have given Allen some weapons but he could always use more. I would be more inclined to trade for a veteran like Jefferson (if his contract can fit under the cap) than to trade significant draft capital to grab WR prospect. Too many high round WRs don't ever live up to their draft hype. We know what Jefferson can do.

I don't think it was meant as a criticism of Diggs, so much as an example of another difference in the way the game was played 30 years ago and how it's played today.

I disagree. Reed and Moulds played in an entirely different era so you cannot really compare stats. DBs had much more latitude to defend passes back then. I would guess that at least half of the PI penalties today would be considered good defensive plays 30 years ago. Both also played before "WR" and "diva" became virtually synonymous. Reed's career spanned the Bills' Glory Years. He had 4 1000+ yard seasons plus 3 more 900+ and 2 800+ yard seasons when 1000 yard seasons were much rarer than they are today. He also shared WR duties with James Lofton in the prime of his career and with Eric Moulds at the end of it. He also was instrumental in helping the Bills get to four consecutive Super Bowls. Moulds played on the declining teams of the late 1990s and the early Drought teams of the early 2000s. He played with Kelly only for a single season as a rookie. Then he suffered through seasons with Todd Collins, Doug Flutie, Rob Johnson, Alex Van Pelt, Drew Bledsoe, and Kelly Holcomb. He had four 1,000 yard seasons: in 1998 (1368, Flutie), 2000 (1326, Johnson), 2002 (1292, Bledsoe), and 2004 (1043, Bledsoe).

I voted "Other". I would like the Bills to take a WR either first or second round, but I want the Bills to go BPA at #28 even if that's not a WR, possibly moving up a few spots to get the prospect they want. While the late first round is a good place to pick a premium S or IOL with the potential to become a difference maker, rather than taking a WR with less potential simply to fill a need, I'm flexible as to positions such DL. This is a such a deep WR draft that the Bills should be able to get a good WR prospect in the second round even if they have to trade up a few spots.

Sammy Watkins wasn't a particularly great WR, but he was the first WR off the board at #3. Justin Jefferson went at #22 and Brian Aiyuk at #25 in 2020 while Henry Ruggs, Jerry Jeudy, CeeDee Lamb, and Jalen Reagor were all taken before them. In 2015, Kevin White was taken at #7 between Amari Cooper and DeVante Parker. Justin Blackmon was picked #5 in 2012. He played just 20 games. IOW, no draft pick comes with a guarantee, including those drafted at the very top of the draft

There are so many excellent wide receivers in this draft that even at 28, the Bills could potentially get a top WR. In 2014 when the Bills traded up to get Sammy Watkins at #3, the Bucs got Mike Evans at #7 and the Giants got Odell at #12, and the Packers got Davante Adams at #53. In 2013, the Texans got D-Hop at #27, the Bills got Bobby Woods at #41 and the Chargers got Keenan Allen at #76. I would give some trade capital to move up a few slots from 28 but I wouldn't give up the 2025 first for a WR. Maybe I'd add in one of the 2025 seconds and some Day 3 picks, too, to move up to 16-20.

I never accuse players, especially Bills players, of being lazy, not trying, etc. IMO, these guys wouldn't even sniff the NFL if drive and desire weren't part of their DNA. Sometimes, players simply just don't have the physical talent, instincts or mental processing ability to be NFL stars. Players are people not robots, and sometimes the drive and ambition that got them to the NFL can also make them PITAs. Sometimes personal life outside football intrudes and short-circuits players' relationships with the team on the field and in the locker room. Sometimes personal conflicts with coaches or teammates also spill out. I am not going to speculate about why Stefon Diggs is no longer a Buffalo Bill. He was great for the Bills for nearly all of his time in Buffalo, but I think somewhere/somehow last season something changed. It was time for him to go. I hope he finds success in Houston or where ever he goes in the future unless he plays the Bills. Thanks for the memories, Stef.

Oliver is about the same size as Aaron Donald. DTs tend to come into their own a few years into their careers rather than early on, and Oliver seems to have done that last season. The Bills defense was seriously compromised last season by injuries, especially by the time the KC playoff game arrived. They dressed only 4 LBs for the KC game, including AJ Klein who came out of retirement, and they were missing Douglas at CB. They still hung with KC to the end, being a missed FG from tying the game and a dropped TD pass from taking the lead.

A really good pass catching TE seems like a better security blanket for a top QB than a WR1 as the Chiefs (Kelce) and the Pats (Gronkowski) showed. More versatile in the offense and not as likely to become a diva.

Sometimes it's not that there's "too many needs" but rather that the talent available doesn't match the team's needs.

If the PITA earning big $$$ produced like he did 2 years ago, he'd be worth keeping. Maybe Diggs needs a "refresh" -- ie, a new team -- every few years. A generational talent at QB in his prime and a solid, pretty young OL trumps a 40-year-old QB coming off a serious injury and an OL dependent upon multiple aging and/or returning from injury linemen. Let's be realistic here. All the hype about the Jests is based on the assumption that Rodgers is going come back from his Achilles injury as good as he was in Green Bay but his last season in GB was one of his poorest, with his highest INTs in a dozen years. Having a great defense won't win the the Jests the AFCE or even a wild card berth if Rodgers doesn't return to his pre-2022 form or gets seriously injured.

Dorsey is credited with developing Newton into a better passer. He also was fairly well known for working privately with QBs. Russ Brandon was laser focused on the bottom line. The Bills never paid top dollar for coaches, but under Brandon (2006-2018), the budgets Brandon allowed for the coaches wasn't nearly enough to bring in good position coaches, especially on offense where good offensive assistants are expensive. After 2018, the Bills kept OC Daboll and fired all the other offensive coaches. Allen's first QB coach had a single year of coaching college QBs about 20 years earlier. He had no experience working with NFL QBs. I don't know if Williams' signing made a huge jump in attendance but it certainly excited the fan base for a while. When Brandon signed Owens in 2009, Bills fans were angry over the Bills giving Jauron an extension after the team's collapse the previous season. The Bills sold a record number of season tix for the 2009 season, more than 56k IIRC.

Sorry, but Kincaid, Knox, and Morris > Knox, Kroft, and Becker. However, the OL in 2020 wasn't nearly as good as the 2023 OL, and the even without Morse, the 2024 OL is currently better. No offense is successful without a decent OL. Because of the improvement in the OL and the TEs, the Bills have the ability to field a versatile offense in 2024 even if none of their WRs puts up huge individual numbers.

Why do you get a pass on doing "all kinds of research"? I did "all kinds of research" for the facts I presented. Back up your claims with facts, and maybe your opinions will get more respect. FTR, Doug Whaley would have drafted Mahomes but he lost the power struggle that occurred after the Bills hired McDermott, and didn't have control of the 2017 draft. He was fired a day or two after that draft. Unfortunately, Mahomes or Allen, neither would have become the QB he is today because the Bills under Russ Brandon put the emphasis on putting butts in the seats rather than winning football games. They had bottom feeder coaches because they wouldn't pay top money to coaches. Allen's first QB coach was a guy who had no real experience developing a QB. After Brandon was fired and Beane promoted, the Bills hired Ken Dorsey to develop Allen. Mario Williams was signed for the same reason that Terrell Owens was signed in 2009: to put butts in the seats when fans were souring after more losing seasons.