BigDingus

The fact that 57% would pass on a proven, great young QB and franchise player for a positional player & a future draft pick who may or may not be good is hilarious. Please, never complain about the front office again. You have forfeited your right to judge this franchise's failures as you would also choose to gamble instead of take a sure-thing. In 18 years of failure, what's the one position we needed most? QB. We've had plenty of great CBs, including Antoine Winfield, Nate Clements, Terrence McGee, Stephon Gilmore, Tre' White, etc...and where have they gotten us? Nowhere. I'm glad you guys aren't part of this decision making process of this organization.

Ok, so ESPN was wrong then. That's good to know. Too bad we didn't play the Pats once at the beginning of the season when their defense was garbage & they were playing only average-pretty good overall. Right now, Brady smells playoffs and is hungry again. Even though he already has the record for most SB's won by a QB, getting a 6th is probably more important to him than all the others. The impact that would have on his legacy can't be understated. Right now, you still have people trying to make arguments for other QB's as the GOAT, but to get freaking SIX wins would make all but the craziest, locked-in-denial haters have to shut up and accept him. To do that all in this in the Free Agency era just blows any counterargument out the window. Getting a win in NE against Brady & this team would be nothing short of a miracle.

Yes, and no disrespect to Tre, but how many times have we had solid rosters with some great players here & there but no QB? How far did that get us? Gilmore was a pro-bowl CB, but did he outweigh having a bad QB? In the past 18 years, here are some of the good/great players we've had: 1. Marcell Dareus 2. Stephon Gilmore 3. Marshawn Lynch 4. Terrence McGee (Pro Bowler, 2 time All-Pro, holds many Bills Franchise records including most career all-purpose yards) 5. LeSean McCoy 6. Antoine Winfield 7. Sammy Watkins 8. Kyle Williams (4 time Pro Bowler, over 40 sacks) 9. Eric Wood (Pro Bowler & one of the top rated Centers) 9. Sam Adams (Pro Bowler, monster DT) 10. Stevie Johnson (Had 3 consecutive 1,000 yard seasons...for a 7th round pick) 11. Nate Clements 12. Richie Incognito 13. Eric Moulds (3 time Pro Bowler, 3 time All-Pro) 13. London Fletcher 12. Willis McGahee (2 time Pro Bowler, averaged 1,121 yards & 8 TD's a season) 13. Jason Peters 14. Mario Williams 15. Ruben Brown (9 time Pro Bowler, 4 time All-Pro, probably the best player at his position the Bills have had since Bruce Smith) 16. Takeo Spikes 17. Lee Evans (Averaged 892 yards & 6 TD's in the 6 seasons he played all 16 games with us...with JP Losman/Kelly Holcom/Trent Edwards as QBs) 18. Cordy Glenn 19. Aaron Schobel (78 sacks over 9 seasons, 2 time Pro Bowler) 20. Robert Woods 21. Brian Moorman (LOL just wanted to throw our 2 time Pro Bowler in there) 22. Travis "Baby Maker" Henry (Pro Bowler) 23. Jarius Byrd (3 time Pro Bowler, 2 time All Pro, NFL interceptions leader in 2009) Note: These were not in any particular order, and I only put descriptions next to some players who some people may have forgotten how good they were. There were plenty more good players you could make an argument for, but the one thing they all have in common is since 2000, they never helped the Bills get to the Playoffs. Even when we had some pretty great rosters, we always were missing a QB. You can hit on other positions all you want, you can pickup great Free Agents all you want, but that method has not translated to success for the Buffalo Bills. If we had a chance to go back & take Watson, but passed it up for a good or even great CB, that would just be another failure in the history of this franchise.

I mean people can claim all they want they'd do it the same way...but if you guys would honestly pass up on Watson given what we know now, you have no right to criticize the Bills FO for being unable to find a franchise QB these past 20 years. And to say you'd rather have a QB from the 2018 draft is equally foolish. You can "think" someone is going to be great all you want, but to pass up on a proven great young QB in HOPE that another QB could potentially be better is simply asinine. Watson wasn't just doing good for a rookie, he was destroying it out there & putting up monster numbers. If we had him on this year's team we'd be a completely different animal & a legitimate threat. Instead of just hoping we squeak into the playoffs & lose the WC game, we'd actually have a shot at winning in the playoffs. Yeah...let's pass up the guy that could make us a fixture in the playoffs for a decade or more for someone who MAY be able to do that, but there's no certainty. If someone offered you 2 million dollars today but also said "Here's 4 cups...under one of them is a check for 5 million, while the other 3 have nothing. Your pick!" Would you really gamble on uncovering the 5 million check instead of a guarantee that you're instantly rich? Again, you have NO right to complain about personnel choices or the state this team is in if you're so willing to pass up on franchise QBs in hope of finding a better one later.

This is the idea I'm struggling with. I can't decide if there's anything to be said for a moral victory in finishing 8-8 or 9-7, yet still missing the playoffs. It might feel good now that we finish with a better record than the previous year, or that we have a winning record, but come draft day I'll be pretty ticked off seeing franchise QB's go to teams other than the Bills because we won some meaningless games down the stretch (unless we can secure a deal with San Fran to move up somehow). Again, mathematically it's possible we make the playoffs, but we've seen this show before... A lot actually. Even last year we were 7-7 and still in contention, with only the Dolphins & the Jets left. We lost to both... In 2015 we were 6-6 with 4 very winnable games left and a great shot at a WC spot. We had the 5-7 Eagles (at that point), the 6-7 Redskins, the 4-10 Cowboys (without Romo), and the 10-5 Jets to beat. We went 2-2 in that stretch.... In 2014 we were 8-6, in control of our own destiny...only having to beat the lowly 2-12 Raiders & the Patriots in week 17 who were going to rest their starters (having once again clinched their spot at 12-3 going) going into their final game. We choked...and lost to the Raiders of course. We finished 9-7, had a stacked roster and a top 3 defense, and all credible outlets said we were 1 player away from being a long-term threat in the AFC...Problem was that player was a QB. Then our HC left, we hired Rex Ryan, and the rest is history. All I know is that the Bills ALWAYS are "close" to making the playoffs at this point in the season, but something stupid always happens & they choke. Last year the Dolphins ended our hope in OT. Assuming we'll beat them twice is quite a lot for the Bills, so it's hard to imagine them actually doing it.

I'm definitely confused which would be better for us. If the Chiefs beat the Chargers & the Chargers win the rest, they finish with a 6-6 Conference record. However, they beat us head to head, so does that matter?

CBS Sports has us as the 6th Seed too - https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/standings/playoffrace

After today's dramatic win, I was quite excited. But within a minute or so, I mentally hit a wall. We know what this team is, and we know how this team plays...so looking ahead at the schedule, thinking about the Patriots in week 16, made me remember we're still probably not making the playoffs yet again. Mathematically we're still in it, but the Ravens edge us out for the 6th seed (although CBS Sports says WE are the 6th seed - https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/standings/playoffrace). In reality, our only real chance at beating the Pats would've been playing them in week 17 & them resting their starters. Beating the Dolphins twice is doable, but far from guaranteed. But beating the Patriots in Foxborough isn't happening when they still have a reason to play their starters. Contenders for the Wildcard Spot: 1. Ravens (7-6) - They play a cakewalk schedule for their last 3 games. Browns, Cots & Bengals. They could easily finish 10-6. If they go 9-7, we MIGHT win those tiebreakers, but according to most projections at the moment, they're ahead. At 9-7 they'd have a 7-5 conference record, just as we would, so there may be a chance somewhere in there, but I'm not certain. However, given their schedule we need someone to pull off an upset for us to even have a shot. 2. Chargers (7-6) - They play the Chiefs, Jets & Raiders, and will likely beat all of them given how well they're playing. They've gone 7-2 in the last 9 weeks, only losing by 8 to the Pats in Foxborough & losing by 3 to Jaguars in Jacksonville. If they lose a game & go 9-7, they'll have a 6-6 Conference record & we'd have a 7-5 Conference record (assuming we only lose to the Pats). They may outright win the West though and leapfrog us entirely. 3. Chiefs (7-6) - They have the lead in the West right now, but that could quickly flip with the Chargers. They play the Chargers, Dolphins & Broncos. It really depends on what Chiefs team shows up, but assuming they go 2-1 during that stretch, they'd have a 7-5 Conference record (tied with us), and have a loss to us head to head. One of them has to win the division, so I'm not sure which would be better for us, assuming one goes 2-1 & the other goes 3-0 to close out the season. 4. Titans (8-4) - They play the 49ers, Rams & Jaguars. They currently hold the 5th seed, as the Jags lead the division at 9-4. Their final game of the season against the Jags could be very important for them, and the Rams are a good team this year. There's a chance they go 1-2 during this stretch, finishing 9-7 with a 7-5 Conference record too. If the Ravens win out, this may be our only other shot at getting in based on tie-breakers, but it's still slim. I'm not even including the Raiders, as even if they win out & go 9-7 they'd still only have a 3-3 division record, and a 6-6 conference record. Thinking about all that needs to go right in order for the Bills to even have a shot hurts my head. Granted the Bills could just end the conversation before it even happens by scrubbing out against Miami next week (which would be predictable given this team's history), but let's assume we don't. With that said, does anyone HONESTLY feel we're making the playoffs this year? And if not, do you guys feel there's something to be said for going 9-7? Or are you in the "no moral victories" camp, and would rather us not win anymore games? I'm genuinely curious as to how this board feels given where we stand.

It's a pretty good group overall. Matthews has never had below an 800 yard season in his career until this year, Thompson was supposed to be a bigger factor in our offense as he's shown the ability to make big plays, Benjamin is a legit number 1, Clay is an awesome TE and would have great numbers if we had a good QB, and McCoy...well nothing needs to be said about how good he is.

Exactly. And to hear Steve Tasker say this is the worst weather he's ever seen in a game in all his years in Football was pretty insane.

He's a good player, albeit a bit undersized. I just wish we had some LBs that could put pressure on the QB too and make plays in the backfield more often (see Reggie Ragland in the KC game).

It definitely contributes, that's for sure. Also wasn't Goodwin played on ST quite a bit? That never helps your body over the course of a season, especially if you're expected to play a lot of snaps on offense too.

Considering the circumstances, I'm not surprised. I remember the Browns vs Bills game a while back was pretty bad, but this one put that game to shame.

Bills should look at all prospects. They should be judged primarily on their college career in the games they played. The combine matters to a degree, but it's what they do on the field. Whether or not they play in a bowl game doesn't matter. If they have 24 games or more of on field experience, that's what they should go off of.

Yup. EJ & Taylor both had to learn that the hard way too.

He better get 3 years. Rotating ever 2 years is not a good way to help this franchise. He proved a few times today he is still green & makes some boneheaded calls, but even still I think he should stay. Unless we have a loaded roster that's just a coach away from success, coach should stay put. If we had a great QB and all the players we could ever want but kept falling short, get a new coach. Plenty would want to come here. Otherwise no coach worth a damn would even get within 100 miles of this organization.

If Peterman is healthy, play him. The fact he had a better day in these conditions than Tyrod has had in perfect weather says enough. The fact he throws to receivers instead of RBs says even more. If Benjamin ever gets healthy, he'll get a lot of looks with Peterman, and that's what we need.

The most shocking thing today, we had more receptions going to WR's than TEs or RBs... In fact, ZERO receptions to RBs. Granted the conditions made that happen, but still. And Benjamin had 8 targets! That's how big he's supposed to be for us when healthy.

Peterman had a better game in this weather than Tyrod had vs the Saints or the Patriots lol And similar numbers too, except with a TD to go along with it.

Don't lie, you probably would've left either A) after the 2-point conversion or B) after Webb threw that interception with 50 seconds left in the game. And if you were STILL there, that punt on 4th & 1 on the opponent's side of the field would've probably pushed you over the edge (and out the door lol)

Also, it looks like the football gods finally wanted us to win. Overturned that 2-point conversion, made the Colts kick a 43 yard XP in these conditions just to tie it, Joe Webb throws an interception with 52 seconds left, but they miss the FG, then when we punt on 4th and 1 at their 42 (I think), we STILL get the ball back & win. It seems that even though the Bills TRIED to lose the game several times, we just weren't allowed to. Divine intervention in spite of some horrible play calling and some calls against the Colts

Now can we please end this Tolbert experiment? I think it's time to just accept Shady gets 90% of the carries, cadet gets the rest.

Our offense is extremely bad, we have nobody but Shady as any kind of threat, but punting there still pretty much seals your fate.

If only we could be so fortunate.

It's like for once God is TRYING to help the Bills, but McDermott & the Bills are like "Nah, we don't want it!" God proceeds to give us a missed FG. McDermott & Co. will promptly respond with a series of kneel downs in OT to stick it to him.