Shaw66

Passer rating in the top 15 in the league and improving play as the season progresses. No worse than 7-9.

I want to believe Allen will succeed. I have several reasons why I think he will. This stat is NOT one of those reasons. I spent two years arguing with people that you couldn't conclude much of anything about Taylor by studying his stats for throwing over the middle. The data is subjective and scarce, and the differences aren't meaningful. Same here. There are too many variables to conclude that the differences among the rookie QBS in this one, narrow, subjective stat mean much of anything. I mean, what am I supposed to do- conclude that Allen is going to Hall of Fame he MAY have been better in the red zone in college?

Atlanta. I was there, and the place was electric with Bills fans. I don't remember the game, but I remember all the Bills fans cheering for about 15 minutes after the game.

Pretty unusual for the second string guy to take over the starting spot. Usually happens only when there's an injury, the games are meaningless or the strarter is in a bad slump AND the playoffs are on the line. It ordinarily doesn't happen just because someone decides it's a good time to start the rookie.

I think people asking about Groy not starting are missing the point. I've heard McD talk about how valuable he is because he can play multiple positions. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't start. You're going to have a center and a backup center. If Groy starts, then Bodine can be the backup. If a guard goes down, Groy can move over and Bodine comes in. That's pretty simple, and I'm sure McDermott understands it. No, it makes much sense to conclude that Groy isn't starting because the coaches think the guys they have starting are better. Plain and simple.

Strictly reading between the lines, but I'd guess that Miller came to camp complacent last year. Two year starter and all that. Why do I say that? Because when he talks about how focused he is and how hard he's worked in the off-season, etc., it sounds like that's new to him, like he didn't get the memo last year when McD showed up. You don't work hard, all day, every day, you aren't playing for McDermott. It sounds like he's now gotten and read the memo. I expect we'll see the results on the field this fall.

Nuthin's happenin

If you remember Terence McGee, or if you don't, take a minute and watch the greatest kickoff return that didn't go for a touchdown in the history of the league. The guy could play corner, too.

It took me a tenth of an hour to read your post. I'll send the bill right away.

I tend to agree. Even going up for Edmunds may have been a mistake.

Even Green Bay is morr than WNY can support. They get fans year round at their museum. That wouldn't happen in Buffalo. Your post gives me hope that they can find a way to do something reasonable, particularly because serious renovations to New Era would cost nearly as much as a modest new stadium.

It should all be one line. Get your beer and chug it while you're waiting for the bathroom.

Corta - That's fantastic! Thanks. I generally don't read the articles about a new stadium, because I don't know what to believe. This is a superb summary. One thing I'll add: I don't think WNY can support a stadium with a lot of club seats and other entertainment areas, like Dallas and Atlanta did. Beyond not supporting it, I think making the facility the centerpiece detracts from interest in the team. I went to the Bills game in Atlanta last season, and so many Atlanta fans were in the clubs instead of their seats that for a lot of the time you couldn't tell which team was the home team, because the noise seemed more or less equal. That's a bad thing. At New Era, there are no distractions - it's all about football.

Wasn't it the knee that was injured on that play in the Jets game, where he'd beaten his man going deep and the defender tripped him to prevent a big gain? He was never right after that game.

I think he meant it was an on-going thing. Too bad they didn't identify it until OTAs. He could have had the surgery two months ago. It would be great if he gets back for training camp. He needs. I'm higher on Jones than a lot of folks here. Lots of rookie receivers struggle, so I don't think that what we saw in 2017 is necessarily what we're going to see in 2018 and going forward. He showed several good things last year, and I get the sense that he's really committed to getting the job done, that he's the kind of guy McD likes. The drops were horrible, but both in college and some his later games last season, he's shown he can catch the ball.

I think a lot of us are out of town. If you live in WNY, you can have as many face-to-face conversations about the Bills as you'd like. If you're out of town, there's no one to talk to except, in my case, Patriots fans.

That sounds right. Frankly, not a lot different from a lot of employers, except that it's a little more top-heavy in a pro football team. Most companies with 200-300 on the payroll only have a few in the mid-six figures.

Yeah, I think all of us peons have trouble really understanding how much money is involved here. I knew a guy whose brother was an NFL assistant coach. He had been in the league for about 18 years, and he was hopeful he'd last to 20 (and I think he did), because at 20 his full assistant coach's pension would kick in, which I believe was in the mid-six figures. I don't know, but I'd guess the CEO, GM and Head Coach are the only ones in seven figures (maybe the coordinators, too), and the assistants and at least a handful of other front office people are in six figures. On the other hand, a lot of the staff gets paid peanuts. They take the job, even though the pay is low, because they want to be involved with the team. After a while, the glamour wears off and they realize they're working hard for not a lot of dough, so they move on. One problem with a lot of the lower-paying jobs with the Bills is that you have to work during the games, so you don't get paid much and you can't watch your favorite team. I look at all the security staff at the games, standing with their backs to the playing field, and I wonder if I would have the discipline to turn my back to the game.

I, too, seem to recall that Brandon got a small piece from Mr. Wilson. I don't know the league rule, but I'm pretty sure it isn't necessary that the "owners" (the Pegulas, the Maras, the Jerry Joneses) own 100%. I'm pretty sure a few celebrities had (and maybe still have) small pieces of the Dolphins. I'd guess that the rules require that the majority owner have total control - the league wants to deal with one or two owners and not worry about whether the owners can get the votes of their minority partners. All a guess on my part, but that's likely how it works. As for Brandon, either the Pegulas insisted he sell out to them at the time they bought the team, or they insisted that he sign an agreement saying he WOULD sell out when his employment ended. Either way, I'd guess that if Brandon had a piece, he doesn't any longer.

If you're like me, you come here more or less every day, sometimes three, four, five times a day, checking to see if there's any news (thanks to the guys who post Bills news wherever they find it!) and occasionally getting involved in discussions. It's great that folks invested the time and energy to create this forum and to keep it running. The regular posters, the occasional commenters and the lurkers all get a lot of pleasure coming here (and some occasional aggravation whenOBD comes up with it's latest head-scratcher). Thanks to all involved.

Impressive until Roseen goes to four Pro Bowls in his first five years!!! I agree, he did a good job. But as we all know, there is only one measure of success in the NFL, and it ain't draft picks. Time will tell.

I don't think it's high-risk high-reward. I wouldn't call Dennison a high-risk, high-reward situation. McD needed an OC, and almost everyone has to hire untested OCs. The good ones become HCs or stay where they are. Dennison was your typical untested OC with a good pedigree. As such I think he was ordinary risk. I think the McBeane approach is they want high performance, and they make decisions quickly about guys they don't think are high performers. So Watkins was gone quickly. They didn't really try to keep Matthews. Dareus got moved. Frankly, I'd guess there were some things they saw in Darby they didn't like. Dennison was a quick decision. If in fact Peterman was Dennison's decision, I think you're right - that sealed his fate. The offense didn't look like it was going anywhere, anyway, but for Peterman to have been as unprepared as he was for prime time meant that Dennison wasn't performing or wasn't evaluating or both. Beane wouldn't trade his 2019 picks, and he wouldn't give up 12 AND 22 to move up to the top of the draft. That's caution and prudence, not high-risk. He traded up twice, and you could say he rolled the dice, but he HAD to get a QB - he had no choice, and Edmunds was about as safe a pick as you could make in the middle of the first round.

I wonder about exactly what went on. You saw, I suppose, the MMQB article that detailed all the investigation the Jets did into the QBs. I know it made me wonder why the Bills didn't do that. They had the same need as the Jets. Well, there are several points about that: 1. The Bills have a scouting department, and it's probably the same size, more of less, as the Jets. I don't assume for a second that the Bills didn't have scouts at a lot of Darnold's games, just like the Jets did. Maybe the Jets had their GM there and the Bills didn't, but the Bills had a serious eyes looking at the QB prospects all fall. That's what scouts do in the fall. They had a ton of data about the QBs. 2. It may be true that Beane hadn't spent a lot of time looking at the QB prospects by the time the Jets traded up. But that doesn't mean that the Bills as a whole hadn't spent a lot of time. See 1, above. 3. By January 1, 2018, the Jets knew they'd pick 6th and the Bills knew they had something like a 21 and 22. That meant the Bills knew that they weren't likely to be picking in the top 4 or 5 in the first round, because they didn't have the draft capital and they didn't want to impair their 2019 draft. It's called discipline. If the Bills were picking 5th or 7th in the first round, you can be pretty sure that Beane would have been looking at the QBs intensely in January and February and the Bills might have traded up like the Jets. 4. It was clear, at least to fans looking at the draft and to the reporters covering it, there wasn't an Andrew Luck, a Cam Newton or an RGIII. That is, there wasn't one guy, and certainly not two or three, who has a high probability of being a stud QB. What there were were four guys who looked like they deserved to go in the top 10. That meant that EVERY QB in the draft was a crap shoot. That, in turn, meant that although you'd like to have you pick of the four, like the Browns did, your actual probability of getting a successful long-term guy with your third or even fourth choice wasn't all that much different than your first choice. Football Outsiders, if I recall, essentially had Mayfield first and the other three were essentially pick 'em. Some people had Darnold sure fire first, others had Rosen. But everyone recognized potential flaws. In other words, gettings one of the top four was more important than getting your first choice. That's not to say you didn't want your first choice - the Bills were happy to trade up to get Allen instead of Rosen (if the Bills didn't care which they got, they could have sat at 12 and one would have fallen). What I'm saying is that it wasn't as important to get into the top 3 or 4 or 5 as it would have been if there were only two good prospects in the draft. The point is you play the hand that's dealt. The Jets didn't out-maneuver the Bills by moving early. The Bills knew in January that it would be difficult for them to get into the top 5 - 21 and 22 together wouldn't have gotten them close. They also knew there wasn't an Andrew Luck to make it worth packaging everything they had - 21, 22, two seconds, next year's first, to go get one player. So they didn't have their eyes on the Colts' pick at three. The Jets were in a different position. They were at 6, so getting to 1, 2 or 3 were realistic possibilities. Maybe they outmaneuvered the Bills in that they consciously tanked the 2017 season (something I'm glad my team didn't do), but once the season ended, they just played the hand they were dealt. I've become enthusiastic about Allen. I think he and Darnold were the two best QBs in the draft, and I don't know how to rate them against each other. Therefore, I don't really care that the Jets got Darnold and the Bills got Allen. What I DO care is that the Bills didn't trade up to 3 or 2 or 1, because I'd much rather have Allen and Edmunds than just Darnold. In other words, getting "outmaneuvered" by the Jets meant the Bills got one of the best linebackers in the draft. Whoops! Just saw this. You made the same point I just did about getting Edmunds, and about the Jets starting with 6. You can't run your draft by watching your divisional opponents and trying to get an advantage over them. You have to build your team as well as you can. I mean, take the extreme example. Suppose the Bills had Andrew Luck. Would anyone be saying the Bills should have hurried to get to #3 so they could take Darnold to keep him from the Jets? Of course not, that's absurd. You'd rather have talent on the Bills than the Jets, to be sure, but that doesn't mean you should run your personnel department by trying to get every good player before the Jets do.

Stu and LImeaid both mention Dennison. I agree with Stu - I was surprised by the quick firing of Dennison. I like it. McDermott decided Dennison wasn't the right guy, and he wasn't going to waste time trying for a second season to make it work. I also agree with Limeaid that you have to wonder about the hiring of Dennison in the first place. It was a mistake, and I would have thought that it was possible to know enough about a guy's offense to figure out whether he's the right guy or not. And it may have gotten more complicated because Dennison led to Castillo and Castillo. (I for one still am not convinced that Ducasse was a problem. Miller struggled late in his rookie season, and if Miller was all that good, he shouldn't have lost his job. Yes, it may have been a different scheme and Ducasse may have fit it better. But if that was the case, as long as you're playing that scheme, you have to play Ducasse.) But what LImeaid says just means that McDermott made a mistake. What I like about the firing is that McDermott recognized the mistake (just like with Peterman, he owned it, and he moved on. And, by the way, I like the Daboll hire. He hasn't had great success in the pros, but he's been learning and growing and he could be a good choice.

Of course, of course, of course. But all we have to evaluate is the last week, the last month and the last year. And the basic question is do these people - Kim, Terry, Brandon and Sean - look like they know what they're doing? For me, the answer is a resounding yes. Why? Because as I wrote, starting from where they were January 15, 2017, it looks and feels like they've been doing the right stuff. People can argue about whether Allen was a mistake, Sammy, Marcel, Kelvin, Darby. Fine. I get that. People can argue. People can argue about the emphasis on the defense instead of building an oline or going after another receiver. Fine, but there was only so much cap room, and there were only so many draft picks. You can't rebuild the entire team in one season. People can argue about whether rebuilding was necessary. But where are the obvious mistakes? The biggest mistake, so far as we can tell right now, was starting Peterman. That's it, in a year and a half. And that's my point. From a fan base in revolt, for pretty good reasons, we've moved on to a fan base looking forward to the 2018 season at least with enthusiasm, and many with downright optimism. That accomplishment alone is worth recognizing.