Shaw66

Weird as it sounds, this is correct. With some decent offense, the Bills would have put some points on the board and changed the time of possession imbalance. Bills defense wasn't good, but it wasn't flat out ugly like the offense was.

Look at the Daboll presser. He admits it was a fumble. He says the QB has to catch the ball clearly and then release it. He says the timing was bad and Allen had to get rid of it too fast. Frankly, I think that's incorrect, because if I call the video correctly, Allen's fingers clearly closed on the ball - he caught it. Then he released it.

I don't know the rule, but I don't think his arm going forward decides the issue. It was either a forward pass or a fumble. Those are the only two things it could be. It's a fumble if the person with the ball - Allen, in this case, loses control of the ball involuntarily, like he gets it and he drops it, or if he throws it intentionally but the ball doesn't go forward. It's a forward pass if he lets go of it voluntarily and the ball moves forward. In this case it may be true that his hands didn't move forward, but the ball did. If he lets go of the ball voluntarily and the ball moves forward, it's a forward pass. Plus, think of it this way: There's no question Allen released the ball voluntarily, and there's no question the ball moved forward. As a matter of physics, Allen must have done SOMETHING to cause the ball to move forward - he didn't need arm motion, he just needed a small finger flick. I doubt there's a rule that says it's only a pass if his arm moves. If he's strong enough to pass it forward with his fingers, it's still a pass.

as others have said, she writes for BillsMafia.com. Yes, she's from Wyoming and yes she's seen a lot of Allen in college and yes, she was hoping the Bills would get him. All the things people like about Allen now she liked a couple years ago. I agree. I hadn't focused on the "playmaker" comment, but you're absolutely right. The anti-Tyrod. It actually does sound like he was thinking about Tyrod when he said this. What we're seeing from Allen is what a lot of people said Taylor didn't have. It's leadership, willingness to take chances. Taylor didn't lack courage - the guy has guts. But he's cautious, and being cautious made him reluctant to take risks. Allen will take risks. Right now we're watching him the process of learning which riskds to take and which not. Exciting times.

These are good observations. Thanks. I didn't think it was night and day, just improvement. He was pretty good against the Chargers. As for Daboll, I think you're correct. I really liked the TD to Croom, which was designed to take advantage of the fact that the Vikings would be looking for a simplified offense, with swings and screens to the wideouts. That play looked like an easy throw into the flat for the rookie, and the defense bit hard.

Last week I reluctantly got I to a few discussions defending the idea that the Bills aren't agents bad as people think. I had two points: First, the o line isn't as bad as people think. Most teams have problems there and the Bills talent is the same as most teams. This morning Peter King has data from pro football focus (I don't trust them, but broad trend data like this is a little more reliable) that shows that offensive line efficiency across the league is down substantially over the past five seasons. Second, qb is the one position on the team that can improve the play of other players. Allen looks like a keeper at qb, and we are seeing how he can make everyone else better. And it isn't just huddling tacklers. It's the whole package.

Good analysis. What you didn't say but was the real point of what you wrote is that when the holes are there, Shady hits home runs and Ivery hits singles and doubles. Loved Shady's attitude on the sideline.

I agree about Allen. He has a lot learn, but he is certainly on his way. Did Bodine return to the game after he got hurt?

Yes. It feels like anything is possible. Fourth and 8 in the fourth quarter when they lined up and let the play clock expire, I was thinking "it's okay, go for it."

I like this suggestion. The Colts added Coby Fleener, a tight end from Stanford, to give a young Andrew Luck a familiar target. Feeney's best seasons were his early seasons with Luck.

McDermott said they told everyone this week that they had to play with speed. People talk about playing with a sense of urgency. Whatever it is, it WAS like the light had come come on.

The Rockpile Review – by Shaw66 “Preseason is Over” Memo to Buffalo Bills: The preseason schedule is FOUR games, not SIX. The Bills rolled over the Minnesota Vikings 27-6 on Sunday afternoon in Minneapolis. Just like their 31-20 loss to the Chargers the week before, the Bills’ win wasn’t as close as the score. Buffalo’s defense dominated the Vikings from start to finish, allowing only one garbage-time touchdown. The question, of course, is where has this defense been? The Bills’ defense looked good at times last season and figured to be better this season. Then the season opened in Baltimore, and “better” wasn’t the word that came to mind. Nor did “not bad.” Not even “there’s work to be done on the defense.” The only words to be said were “what in the world is going on with the defense?” The first half against the Chargers in Buffalo was no better. The Chargers put up 28 quick points and the game was over. The Bills’ defense played the Chargers tough in the second half, but it was hard to say whether that performance meant the defense finally had come alive or simply that the Chargers dialed the offense back and cruised to the win. Against the Vikings, there were no questions. The Bills defense dominated the Vikings. Period. Coming into the game, the Vikings were seventh in the league in yards and ninth in points. In the first half against the Bills, they were last and last. And don’t believe the press, who immediately attributed the outcome to the Vikings being flat – that’s just the press refusing to believe last season, refusing to believe the Bills could be good. The Bills dominated the Vikings. Just ask Cousins. What changed? The Bills were stout against the run, as they’d been in the previous two games. It was the pass defense that changed. The pass rush woke up, especially Jerry Hughes, with a sack, a forced fumble, and several pressures. What changed? The back seven stopped watching and started attacking. The Vikings receivers were challenged all day, fighting for 50-50 balls and getting hit as the ball arrived. The Bills had done their film study, and they were prepared. They ran to the ball and they made tackles. Mike Milano stood out, with an interception, a fumble recovery, a sack and some nice tackles. Tre White looked like an elite corner. Tremaine Edmunds is learning. On Sunday, he was IN plays, instead of AROUND plays. He was there on Milano’s interception. He made tackles in the open field. He plugged holes and he defended well. He wasn’t a force, not yet, but ten tackles is nothing to sneeze at. If he continues to learn, he can be an important part of great defense. On offense, there is only one story in 2018: Josh Allen. The media continue to follow the script: Allen is raw, Allen is inaccurate, Allen is, is, well, Allen is a Buffalo Bill and can’t possibly be any good. They should forget the script and watch the guy play. He’s special, and he doesn’t play like a rookie. (Except when he got sacked and fumbled. OMG, kid, you can’t DO that!) The highlights show Allen’s touchdown and his amazing hurdle of a tackler to get a big first down, but the real highlights are his pocket presence and his throws. The guy can play. Eventually, the rest of the country will catch on. Allen is doing it with a clearly substandard receiving corps. Clay had one of his characteristic drops, Benjamin continued to disappoint, and Foster couldn’t haul in the best deep ball we’ve seen Allen throw. Andre Holmes may be emerging as Allen’s go-to guy, and Jason Croom could become a weapon. What happened to the offensive line? Nothing, or at least nothing much. The offensive line simply isn’t as bad as so many people would like to think it is. There simply isn’t that much difference, talent-wise, among all but the very best linemen in the league. Most teams have a collection of linemen who are less than lights out, and the Bills are no different. They will look bad at times, but if they’re properly coached, they will do their jobs well enough for the offense to make plays. We saw it on Sunday. And as Allen improves and the passing game opens up, the line play will get easier, and the running game will improve, too. Man, that was fun! I went to a wedding in Portland, Maine on Saturday and planned to watch the game at a sports bar someplace along the route back to Connecticut. I awoke Sunday morning and remembered the Harp, the Bills Backer bar in Boston. It was the first time I’d been there, but it won’t be the last. Nothing like sitting in the shadow of the TD Boston Garden, in the heart of Patriots territory, in a sports bar filled with Bills fans, with 90% of the TVs tuned to the Bills game. They have a DJ who plays great rock during the commercials and plays the entire “Shout” song after each score. Everyone sings along. What a great venue! Thanks to the Bills Backers. GO BILLS!!! The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.

Its true. The Harp is the place to watch the Bill's in New England! Go Bills!!!

I've had this thought for days now, and I'll throw it in here. I seriously doubt that the Bills have the worst offensive line in the league. I'm not saying it's good. As I watch games around the league, I'm seeing a LOT of atrocious line play. Defenders are getting free runs at the QB for many, if not most, teams. I don't think Allen has been in any more trouble back there than a lot of QBs over the first couple of weeks. It's something we've been hearing for a few years now. There are few stud offensive linemen coming out of college. Guys in the pros literally are going to off-season camps to learn how to block in the NFL. On top of that, the defensive schemes keep getting more complex, with more disguises. A lot of teams are rushing linebackers and defensive backs and dropping DEs into coverage. It's complex. One of the encouraging things about Allen is that he scrambles well, and he doesn't go down easily. It's a skill all QBs need now - if you're a statue back there, you're going down.

Exactly. I think we've seen it already. How much better he gets remains to be seen.

Yeah, that one was just for you.

First, it's standard operating procedure on message boards to misinterpret clear statements. Anyway, I will say here and now that anyone who doesn't see Hall of Fame potential in Allen is an idiot. An idiot. He has Peyton Manning size. He runs and throws like Elway. He stays upright in the pocket like Roethlisberger. Now before anyone says Shaw is nuts - I didn't say he's going to the Hall of Fame, I didn't say he's as good as those guys. BUT - if you're going to start a rookie QB and try to develop him into a quality starter in the NFL, why wouldn't you want to start with 6'5", 240, with speed, brains and a cannon? I don't get all the whining. I'll say it again: I'm excited. Bills have the best prospect at QB in the past 30 years, maybe ever.

I'm not comparing Allen to anyone. I've been arguing against the idea that starting Allen now might ruin or harm his development or something. The people I named weren't ruined by starting early in their careers. And why not compare him to Newton and Watson? He's already shown comparable size, arm strength, running ability and ability to avoid sacks and take hits. Fundamentally, I think I'm here arguing with people because I think Allen's already demonstrated Hall of Fame potential. He isn't playing like a Hall of Famer, but most Hall of Famers didn't play like it in their rookie seasons. But size, arm strength, instincts in the pocket, leadership, character, he's checking all the boxes. So I just don't get why people are moaning and groaning about the current situation. I went to the game Sunday thinking the Bills probably would lose. I didn't care. I wanted to see Allen, and I wasn't at all disappointed. He looks nothing any of the failed QBs of the past 15 years. He's better than all of them in all respects, except that he doesn't have more courage than FItz. Equal maybe, but not more. I'm excited about him and excited he's playing. I think by midseason the media and everyone else will be taking notice of him. And I think that the Bills will be much better on offense then than they are now. QB is the one guy who can make everyone else better, and as Allen gets his feet wet I think he's going to do just that. I think everyone will be surprised how much better the Bills receivers look in November.

First paragraph: Ther is not one example, including Derek Carr, who people can agree had his career ruined by starting early. Second paragraph: So Manning and Ryan and Wilson and Deshaun Watson all had success starting early,. So what's you're point? That Allen can't be like them? Third paragraph: When McD and Allen say Allen isn't ready, they mean they'd like for him to have learned more before he started. NO ONE is ready when they start in their first couple of years. Fourth paragraph: This stuff about him getting hurt is indeed nonsense. Allen didn't take any more hits or expose himself in ways that other quarterbacks don't. He's just playing football. His offensive line isn't great, but he isn't getting hit more than a lot of other QBs. So agasin I ask, what's your point. Are you saying that if you're the HC, you wouldn't play Allen?

That's for a different thread. This thread is about Allen.

First, Aikman played 11 games, attempted 293 passes and was sacked 19 times. And you're right, he sucked. So did their other quarterbacks. The team sucked, too. Offense was horrible, defense was horrible. Second, so now your point is what, that good rookies on bad teams shouldn't play until they get good coaches? Huh? So Allen should ask to sit until his contract runs out so he can pick a QB coach? It's very simple. The Bills don't have a great array of talent, and they have a very good prospect at QB. What you do with a very good prospect on a not so good team is you play him. There is nothing to be gained by sitting him.

That's well stated, but it's not on the point. No one is arguing that Allen is in the perfect position for him to start his career. It's obvious that if you could draw it up, you'd put Allen on a better team with a better line and better receivers. That's certainly true. The point is that some people seem to think that because Allen is on a bad team with a bad line and bad receivers, he should sit on the bench. I don't agree. It's just football. Go out and play, and as you play, you'll get better. And although it was nice for Mahomes to sit for a season, Allen will be a better QB at the beginning of his second season than Mahomes at the beginning of his. Allen will learn a LOT more this year than Mahomes did sitting last year. I don't agree about the "plateau." The team's performance may plateau if they don't get better talent, but Allen doesn't have to plateau. Michael Jordan played on a lot of bad teams, but HE kept getting better. Eventually, the Bulls put good players around him and gave him a Hall of Fame coach, and the team started winning. Allen will keep getting better for the next five years, whatever the Bills do.

This is more or less nonsense. First, you asked that someone name good QBs who started their careers on bad teams. I named three, and Bob Griese is another. There are 26 modern era QBs in the Hall of Fame, and FOUR of them started on bad teams. Statistically, that's about what you'd expect, about 15%. Then you try to twist the stats to prove that somehow those guys didn't play on bad teams. Aikman played on the worst offense in the league, and you say it was different because he played behind a good offensive line. How good could that line have been if they were the worst offense in the league? And, yes, he was sacked only 19 times. Why? Because he only attempted 293 passes. Prorate that to 500 passes, what a most QBs throw in a serious, and he has 30 sacks or more. There simply is no evidence that starting as a rookie on a bad team impairs the development of QBs. Is this situation perfect? No. Allen would be better off with a better line (so would Eli Manning), a better QB coach, a better receiving corps, better this, better that. None of it really matters. He's on the field and he's learning, and that's better for him than being on the bench. I think this is nonsense. It's harder to succeed if you start for a bad team? Yes, in that season, it's harder to succeed. But there's no evidence that it's harder to be good in your fifth season if your first season is with a bad team. I mentioned Steve Young, who's a good case in point. He didn't seem to have any trouble overcoming starting his career on a bad team. Who says Allen isn't ready? Does he look like he doesn't know what he's doing? No. Has he taken any serious hits? No. There are probably 10 teams in the league whose offensive line is as bad as Buffalo's. I don't see any teams benching their QBs because they're afraid they'll get injured. QB PTSD. Nonsense. Russell Wilson has been a league leader in sacks since starting as a rookie. He hasn't been beaten up, he doesn't have PTSD, he doesn't do anything expect play great. This is all just nonsense. Put the guy on the field and let him play. He held his own Sunday, and there is no reason to believe that he won't improve as the season progresses. He'll make mistakes like other rookies, he'll get hit like other quarterbacks, and he'll play football.

I think he's shown a lot. First, he isn't showing many rookie negatives. No sulking, no confusion calling plays, no intimidation from a game that's too big or too fast for him. We're not seeing any of the rookie ugliness we got from EJ or JP. Second, he's shown good command of the huddle and respect from his veteran teammates. Third, he's shown none of the wild inaccuracy people seemed to think he had, and none of the overambitious gunslinger mentality he was accused of. Fourth, he's shown great presence in the pocket. Fifth, he's shown an ability to look off defenders and to find and hit receivers downfield, something Taylor struggled with. He has plenty of positives and, to date, few negatives. Yes, the roster is what it is, but I don't think it's as bad as people think. For example, look at sacks through two games. Now, the Bills started two totally inexperienced QBs, and inexperienced QBs always take more sacks. So you'd expect the numbers to be bad because of that. The Bills have taken 11 sacks, one less than Seattle, one more than Cleveland (Wilson and Taylor are perennial sack leaders). There are plenty of teams with 6 sacks or more, and watching the games I'm amazed how MOST teams have trouble protecting the QB. The Bills aren't a terrible outlier, and as Allen learns more, he'll take fewer sacks. Plus, it's a new offense for everyone, and Allen didn't get a lot of first team reps all summer long. He and the receivers will develop some rapport that they don't have yet. For example, he and Benjamin miscommunicated on the back-shoulder incompletion early in the game Sunday. That rarely happens once two guys know each other. Once they know each other it's also easier for the QB to avoid sacks, because he knows where to find his outlet guys. So I fully expect that the offense will improve from week to week. I think Daboll was reluctant to throw the ball a lot on Sunday, and I think that will change, too. As Allen learns more and gets better with his receivers, they'll let him throw it. You can be sure the whole league already knows that you can't sit on the short routes against Allen. He keeps hitting guys over the middle 15-20 yards downfield, and that's going to continue. Once that happens, Daboll will start popping receivers open on shorter routes. Allen will move the sticks better then, his completion percentage will go up, and the running backs, whoever they are, won't have to worry so much about the safeties in the box. I really expect that by midseason the media will be singing a different tune about Allen.

Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning and Steve Young had okay careers starting with bad teams. Allen's getting a great education playing now. He's already showing he can handle the mental and physical pressure. I'm confident his sacks per game will go down as the season progresses. He'll read the defenses better, and he'll know his receivers better.