Shaw66

Great post, Virg. Really funny. Especially the last line. All depends on your attitude. I watched knowing the season was over and that the Patriots almost certainly were going to win. I wasn't upset at all, because I had no expectations. Like you, I'm disappointed in McDermott. Like it or not, until Belichick retires, his job is to think on Belichick's level and to prepare your team to play at the level Belichick's team plays. He didn't do that today, as you say. He wasn't close. He's played Belichick four times, and he still looks like a rookie. Except, Brady DID have a tough time throwing today. Gotta give McDermott and Frazier that. And, I'm telling you, I was fine with Allen. Fine. Week after week, he shows so many things that say he's the real deal. This was his first time against Belichick. Next time he'll be better. Every game is an opportunity for him to learn more. Next season, with a better line, better receivers and a better understanding of all aspects of the game, he's going to light it up. Just wait.

Until the Bills can beat the Patriots, they aren’t going to win the AFC East. It’s been the reality for years, and nothing’s changed after the Pats’ 24-12 over the Bills on Sunday. Not that the Bills were going to win anything this season. It was a game we’ve all seen before. Pats coming at the Bills with a different look, and another different look, and another. It’s the Belichick way. It leads to confusion, which caused a timeout by Allen early in the first half. It leads to big plays against the Bills, like the jet-sweep runs. It leads to three and outs. This game looked like a lot of Bills-Pats games lately. The Pats always seem to be in control, but they don’t pull away. The game stays close, and in the third quarter it often looks like somehow the Bills could win. But the Pats ARE in control, and the Bills DON’T win. Characteristic of many Bills losses to New England is the turnover at an important part of the game. Who wasn’t screaming at Croom to go down and to hold on to the ball after his 24-yard reception took the ball down to the Patriots’ six-yard line? It was SO obvious. Take the gain, go down and avoid the gang tackle. A touchdown makes it a one-score game, and notwithstanding the Patriots impressive running game, the Bills would have been in a football game. Instead, the Pats put together a long drive, flip field position, get a three and out and get a field goal to put the Bills into a hole they couldn’t dig out of. It’s not just the Patriots that bring out Bills’ mistakes. It’s been happening all season. Penalties particularly. Part of Sean McDermott’s process has to be to develop a team that plays mistake-free football, to the greatest extent possible. Two years into the process, mistake-free isn’t how anyone would describe the Bills. It’s not a question of talent – it’s training, practice. ANY tight end in the league is trained to hold onto the ball; it isn’t about talent. Whatever McDermott is doing to teach that lesson isn’t working. He needs to work on his process. The game was pretty much over after the fumble. I had several reactions to the game: It was interesting to listen to Trent Green and Bruce Ariens critique Josh Allen. It was like two pros sitting in the family room, making observations to one another that most of us don’t see. Floating the ball on his first interception, and then again on the second interception to the other side. Not taking the easy checkdown to McCoy. Throwing to Foster in tight coverage by McCourty. Actually, I think they were wrong about that. They said it was a bad matchup. Well, you’ve got Gilmore on the other side, and that’s by definition a bad matchup. So you’re down to your third best receiver, and on the Bills, the third best receiver is also by definition a bad matchup. Allen made an excellent throw, and it’s one of those throws where you ask your receiver to make a play. Foster just didn’t make it. On the other hand, the announcers didn’t know anything about the Bills, or they didn’t bother to say anything about them. Nothing about Edmunds, a couple sentences about Lorenzo, nothing about the offensive line, nothing about the Bills’ safeties. There’s a lot to say about this team, and they didn’t bother to say it. What didn’t they say? Well, they actually said very little about Josh Allen. This season has been all about the Bills quarterback, and even with the problems Allen had against the Patriots, he looked like a star in the making. His arm is amazing. His pocket presence is great; he made a mistake, was nearly sacked in the end zone, and then made a miraculous play to avoid the safety. Very few QBs escape to make that play. Everything that I see from Allen that is good is very good. He’s calm, he understands a lot of what’s going on out there, he throws the ball beautifully. The things that I see that aren’t so good are the things that he should learn with experience: his desire to go downfield on every play, his failure to put air under some balls and to put too much under others. He’s seeing and learning every week. Now he’s seen Belichick and that defense. Some of what Allen needs is time throwing to his receivers. Too many plays where either Allen or the receiver misreads the defense. Of course, he also could use a better receiver or two. What’s up with McKenzie? Carted off the field for the second week in a row, and for the second week in a row he returned to play some more. Gotta give Belichick credit for figuring out how to run on the Bills. The Bills have to have better answers. The Pats don’t have a dominant offensive line, and the Bills’ defensive line, although not what you’d call stout, hasn’t given up yardage like that all season. Something needs to be fixed, and the something probably is some of the players on the front seven. Losing Milano certainly is part of the problem – he made a difference on the field every week until his injury. It was a pleasure to watch a game without a lot of penalty calls. Of course, pass interference in the end zone might have made the game different. Foster or McKenzie (who was it?) clearly was making a play on the ball and got pushed away. Two rules I’d like to see changed that won’t be: One is that a fumble into the end zone and then out of bounds is a turnover. That’s just wrong. If I fumble out of bounds at the one, I keep the ball. If I fumble it one yard deep into the end zone and then out of bounds, I lose the ball? Why? The other is the rule that the ball carrier has to touch the ground to be down. Edelman was tackled, clearly tackled. He was off his feet and on top of two defenders who were off their feet and on the ground. Gravity had done it’s job, and he was as down as he could be. If the ball carrier is off his feet by contact and is lying on players who also are off their feet and on the ground, the ball carrier should be ruled down. The Bills certainly are looking toward 2019. Charles Clay was inactive for the Pats game. He may be less mobile than Croom, but he’s certainly a better player than Logan Thomas. Just maybe not better for this coach and this team. It’s a good bet that Clay won’t be in Buffalo next season. Not that I’m in favor of tanking at all, but one more loss could give the Bills a spot near the top of the 2019 draft. The Bills will be a lot better in 2019 than 2018, because they are going to load up on talent. Every little bit helps, and drafting fifth in the first three rounds would be better than tenth. Still, there’s nothing better than a Bills win, and we owe the Dolphins a loss. GO BILLS!!! The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.

I was in a restaurant tonight and I saw a report from NBC sports Boston on TV No audio. It was about Bills Pats. Every video was Allen running. I agree with OP. The Boston press doesn't know anything about Allen.

Who is excusing, validating or justifying Clay's play? No one, so far as I can tell. Who's putting it mostly on Allen? Again, nobody. So your point seems to be that you want to argue with nobody. Are we to assume that you're okay with Allen's accuracy? Of you are, you're in the minority. If you aren't, then despite your arguments, you agree with what several of us have been saying.

You're 100% wrong. There are only two things that 100% certain about that play, at least things that matter. It's 100% certain that McDermott and Clay will both tell you that Clay should have caught it. And it's 100% certain that both McDermott and Allen will tell you that Allen should have thrown it better. When these guys get graded on that play, and they do get graded, Clay will get high markets for his recognition and route running and low marks for his execution of the catch. Allen will get high marks for handling the pocket, recognition and decent but not high marks for the throw. Clay won't get an F- and Allen won't get an A+ on the play. If you want to place blame AND if blame has to be 100%, then Clay gets the blame, because his total grade certainly is lower than Allen's. But these coaches are not about blame. They're about improvement, and your dreaming if you think the coaches didn't tell Allen that he didn't completely meet his objective on that play. Of course, they didn't have to tell him, because he already knew.

But now go back and look at the post you responded to. The ooster's point was that if Allen makes the throw he should have made, it's a 50-yard catch and run. That's not to say Clay shouldn't have caught the ball. Th point is that to be a too QB Allen still has work to do. But that isn't news.

Thanks. I have to admit, it makes me feel good that a lot of posters come to these threads with interesting things to say. What I say in the OP is usually less important than the points made in the discussion that follows.

You said it better.

Exactly.

I don't disagree with this, but it's all irrelevant when the team is on the field. Do you think that Allen on the field isn't aware that Clay needs a more precise pass than Croom? I'm sure he is. I haven't said and am not saying there's anything wrong with Allen. I'm a big Allen fan. We're talking about a single play on the football field. The truth is that where Allen put the ball, with Clay in the route, is a relatively low probability completion because Clay in 2018 doesn't make tough catches as often as he should. Allen knew that before the throw and after the throw. Should he not have made the throw? No, he made the right throw. That's his job. But if you ask him, speaking frankly he will tell you that he has to throw it better because Clay was the receiver. It's just the reality of playing games. Steph Curry wants every pass he makes to be perfect, but he knows Clay Thompson will handle the inaccurate pass better than Dramond Green.

Actually, I do know this. It was regularly commented on by offensive and defensive players during Elway's career. The receivers said it took nearly a year to get used to it, and it was obvious watching defenders be unprepared when the ball arrived.

This wasn't true for Elway. His receivers learned to look just a little quicker and to handle the speed. The defenders never got used to it because they couldn't practice it. It gave Elway an edge that others didn't have. Actually, Mc and Foster aren't targeted over the middle like Zay and Clay. Those are the throws that are getting on the receivers quickly. And Zay is catching them. Clay is having trouble with them. None of the Bills receivers are worldbeaters, and upgrades will be welcome.

Oh, yeah. He's gotta go. Allen needs a better option. But that's the future. Right now, you play with the guys you have.

True, but that's meaningless. If you paid me that money, I still wouldn't have caught the ball. Talking about the money is about whether a GM's decision turned out well, not about what to expect from players on the field.

Oldman Read what I said. I wasnt talking about "fault." I'm talking about the reality of the game. It's a simple fact that Clay's catch radius is completely different from Odell Beckham's. That means you're going to have higher completion percentage throwing to Beckham. If Allen is running that play and sees his tight end, hes going to try to make an accurate throw, like he tries on every play. But he knows that if Clay is the tight end, his probability of completing an Inaccurate pass is lower than if it's Croom. It's a question of reality, not fault. The simple fact is that Clay running across the field at full speed isn't good at catching balls outside a relatively small catch radius.

I agree he should make that catch and has in the past. And I agree he was better earlier in his career. Since he cMe into the league, the game has been asking tight ends to become better receivers, and he hasn't developed that way. He's maybe gone in the other direction. Ckay needs the ball just right if you're going to expect him to catch it.

Of course the solution is to have a better tight end. But until you do, if you want a high probability of a catch, the throw has to be better. What you said is like saying it isn't Allen's fault when he overthrows a receiver when the receiver isn't fast enough to get to the ball. You can only play the game with the players you have. When Clay is your tight end, you should expect those drops.

You're correct that Allen needs to take something off some throws. But it's also true that receivers have to learn to catch his zingers. It's a real advantage sometimes to get the ball there fast. The receivers will learn this next year, with Allen getting all the first team reps. And DBs and LBs aren't used to catching balls with a lot of zip, so Allen's fastball also cuts down on INTs. Elway had that advantage.

I'm glad someone said this. Great catches are great because most receivers don't make them. Most good receivers miss tough balls more often than they catch them. It makes no sense to call everything a receiver touches and doesn't catch a drop. Take the throw over the middle that Clay didn't catch discussed early in this thread. You have to consider who the receiver is. That is a ball I expect Zay to catch, but not necessarily Clay. He isn't very athletic, and running at full speed across the field and going down for the ball is a tough play for him. The truth is that Clay just isn't an good modern tight end. He's more blocker and less receiver than today's game demands. He fit the game 10 years ago better. Allen knows that throws to Clay have to be better than throws to some other guys.

I agree. Phillips is entertaining. I worry he's a little on the edge, but it seems he's a fit with McD. Point is, even if Philliips goes, in terms of talent, the Bills will be net winners by a lot in 2018, not net losers.

Thanks, Freddy - That's a great post. I'm expecting Josh and Tremaine to be 10-20% better next season, as they learn more and as Tremaine puts on some muscle. This will be an off-season unlike any in recent memory. No significant free agent losses (Lorenzo and Kyle are the only big names, and they'll either retire or stay, I would think, plus J. Phillips, Miller, Groy and Mills), some significant free agent additions, and probably as many as a half dozen rookies who will see significant minutes.

Agreed. After I posted, I began wondering if Nick Saban has texted Daboll yet. "Hey, Brian, what the hell? You have this kid at Alabama and he catches 14 passes in an entire season. Then you have him in Buffalo, and he catches 19 in five games!" To which Daboll probably responded, "Well, Coach, if you'd said 'yes' seven years ago when Josh Allen asked if he could be your quarterback, Foster would have caught more than 14 passes for you." I've been developing my theory about crowd noise on TV vs. in the stadium. I think TV sets up their crowd noise microphones some places around the lower level. I sit in the second row in the upper deck. Most of the empty seats were in the upper deck, so what I heard on Sunday was noticeably quieter than for sellouts. But on the lower level, where closer to all the seats were full, the noise level that the tv microphones pick up probably is about the same as if it had been a sellout. I always wonder what the players hear. Sometimes I think all the noise that's made in the upper deck just goes out and up and doesn't add a lot to the noise that the lower level makes. That is, I think I should just shut up and let the lower level people do all the work!

You may be right, and I hope you are, but I doubt it. The guy was a star talent coming out of high school and got the very best possible coaching in college. He spent his formative football years in the exact same environment Amari Cooper, and more or less the same environment as Julio Jones, but he couldn't produce anything even remotely comparable to either of them. They were drafted fourth and sixth overall. Foster, with the same coaching and training, caught 14 passes in his best season at Alabama. No pro football team thought he was worth spending even a 7th round pick on him. In other words, with all the apparent talent that a Cooper or a Jones had, and with all the opportunities and coaching that those guys had, Foster was unable to accomplish anything that was on the same planet as those guys. If he couldn't learn to be a standout receiver in five years at Alabama, I have trouble seeing what it is that's going to turn him into a star in the NFL.

I've expressed my view before - most of the players on all NFL teams are average NFL players, with great size and athletic ability compared to us normal humans. But among themselves, most of them don't stand out. All three of those guys fit in that category so far as I can tell. None of them is going to be a top-10 receiver, but one or two or all three will make it in the league and have positive careers for a few years. That's how the NFL works. So you get a guy like Robert Woods or Chris Hogan who, when he gets to the right team with a good QB and a system he fits, does well. McDermott, Daboll and Allen will be the ones, really, who determine whether those guys have careers in Buffalo.

Wow. Anyway, I'm a McDermott fan. I have blasted him a few times, like about all the penalties his team has amassed. He's all about discipline, and the penalties suggest something has been amiss. I talk about his conservative approach to some things, but I don't criticize him for it. I tend to agree with a conservative approach. I like the process. I think he knows what he's doing. I like his defensive style. It's fundamental and aggressive. So I don't get where you think I have a bias against McD.