Shaw66

I say it all the time. It's coaching and quarterbacking. Yes, the Bills could use some better players, but they don't have to be that much better. Everyone complains about the receivers, but it's much more about scheme and quarterbacking than receivers. Looks at the Pats and Seahawks, two teams we saw yesterday. They have better receivers, to be sure, but they aren't standout guys. Among their receivers there isn't one guy anyone would trade a first-round pick for. They aren't first-round talents and no one would trade a first-round pick for them. What do they have in common? A great quarterback and an excellent head coach. I'm not hoping about Allen. It's based on what I see. I see a guy who can throw from the pocket as well as anyone out there. I see a guy who can throw on the run as well, or nearly as well, as Rodgers and Mahomes and Wilson. I see a guy who can scramble with the best and outrun linebackers. I see a guy who works hard and studies. I see the arm. Essentially what I see is a guy all the tools - arm, size, speed, brains - who just needs time to learn the nuances of the game. And I see a guy who's learning almost week by week. Do I recognize that he might not make it? Sure I do. But he brings everything to the field that he needs to be great, and that's as much as you can ask for a rookie. If he isn't better next season, I'll have to reevaluate. What I expect is that, having gained a lot of experience this season and then having the entire off-season as the entrenched starter, having Barkley to work with and having an off-season to work with his receivers, Allen will be a much improved QB who will hurt defenses with his arm regularly.

I tend to be optimistic about McDermott, but you certainly could be right. I've said it a few times. There are a lot of things about the Bills over the past two years that are evidence that the coaching isn't as good as it should be. Penalties. The whole Peterman saga. The absence of a veteran backup for Allen. However, there's a big learning curve to being a good head coach. It takes years to learn to be really good at it, and there are plenty of examples of guys who weren't great at it to begin with, including Belichick and Gregg Williams. So I'm willing to wait. As I said, 2019 is when McDermott has HIS team, and when he's had a couple of years to learn things.

Whether you agree or not, McDermott believes that young players grow and improve from year to year. I think if we could get McDermott to come on here and talk about his perception of the Bills' starting offensive talent, a lot of posters here would be disappointed. I think McDermott would say that he thinks a lot of guys, including Croom, Foster, McKenzie, Jones, Dawkins, Miller, Teller and probably a few others will continue to improve. I also think he would say that as each guy improves, he makes the players around him better. It's particularly true with Allen - as he plays better, all of his offensive teammates will play better. But it's also true about linemen, and even about receivers. Many people have commented that what hurt the Bills more than anything else this season was losing Incognito and Wood. That's true, and not simply because they played well, but because they also helped make the people beside them better. It doesn't take a lot of new talent to have a big impact on the team. Suppose, for example, that the Bills get a stud left tackle in the draft and a quality veteran guard in free agency. What's the impact on the offensive line? It could be huge. Maybe move Dawkins to the right side, send Miller or Teller to the bench. Those are two completely possible changes, things that could be done very comfortably within the Bills' draft situation and position and their cap space, causing no real disruption at all. But they could mean a huge improvement in the offensive line. Add one quality receiver to go with Foster and Jones (and maybe some better offensive line coaching), and think about what happens: Run game improves (with or without Shady), pass protection improves (and we've seen how well Allen throws when he has protection), receiving game improves and passing gets easier. More importantly, think about the complementary effect of all those things: running game improving makes play action more effective, which helps the passing game. Play action effectiveness makes pass protection easier for the offensive line. Having a complementary offense reduces three and outs, which helps the defense. I'd be amazed if the Bills clean house like some people would like to see. I think the Bills go to camp with all of the people who end the season as starters (except for any retirements and free agent departures). But I don't think they start the 2019 season with all those guys still starting, or even on the team. I think what we're going to see is a lot of rookies and free agents in camp, AND WINNING JOBS. We're going to see Milanos and Fosters and guys like that taking jobs from guys like Mills and Miller. It's going to be the process in full bloom, with competitions at many, many positions, and the smartest, hardest working, toughest guys are going to win the jobs. For me the big question is whether McDermott has what it takes and whether he will have the right team of coaches to be able to compete with the best coaches in the league.

That's a good point. In fact, I'm sure they could get picks for some of the starters, but not any picks that would send you to the scouting reports to find a stud. Maybe if they traded ALL of their offensive starters except all, they could get ten picks in the sixth and seventh, and then trade them all for one second rounder. However, the fact is that EVERY team has guys in their starting lineups who aren't worth a lot on the trade market. The Bills just happen to have all of theirs playing on offense.

And the Bills need a coach. McDermott may be the guy, and he may not. Time will tell.

I agree with the OP and I agree about fumbling into the end zone, too. In my world, both rules would be changed. Most people I talk to are happy not to live in my world.

Well, you're right. I've been saying the season is over for a few weeks. But like most of what I write, it's true. The season is over, and McDermott has been coaching that way for at least a couple of weeks. As for Allen, I think he's going to be great. I've been saying it for a while now. Are you arguing with that conclusion? I suppose I could be reviewing the play of other guys in detail. Frankly, I'm not interested and I haven't been watching. I'm not sure anyone on the team today is important to the team's future, at least not nearly as important as Allen. Edmunds is second, so I watch him. Anyone else who's on the team today who will be on the team when it's competing for championships will be great to have, but there's not much point in looking for those guys now. They may be part of the future, but they won't make it. I write about what I'm interested in.

That's true. Hold on until the whistle.

I don't know about dreadful, but I've watched him all year and he hasn't shown me that he's tough enough to play the middle. He's always standing around the pile, helping up the guy who made the tackle. That's not the attitude you want with your middle linebacker.

Yeah, I'd change the rule so smith schauster was down. Both calls were right - I just don't like the rule, in part because the tackler, like the Bills today, don't have any way to know if the ball carrier is down and if they can continue the play they run the risk, in today's game, of getting called for unnecessary roughness if he IS down. Whatever.

Fumbling it out of your own end zone is like running it out of your end zone. It's like getting tackled. Fumbling into the other end zone is different. As for the other rule, you just stated the rule. I know the rule. I think the rule should be different. The guy was tackled, his progress was stopped, he was lying on guys who were lying on the ground. He should be down.

Great post, Virg. Really funny. Especially the last line. All depends on your attitude. I watched knowing the season was over and that the Patriots almost certainly were going to win. I wasn't upset at all, because I had no expectations. Like you, I'm disappointed in McDermott. Like it or not, until Belichick retires, his job is to think on Belichick's level and to prepare your team to play at the level Belichick's team plays. He didn't do that today, as you say. He wasn't close. He's played Belichick four times, and he still looks like a rookie. Except, Brady DID have a tough time throwing today. Gotta give McDermott and Frazier that. And, I'm telling you, I was fine with Allen. Fine. Week after week, he shows so many things that say he's the real deal. This was his first time against Belichick. Next time he'll be better. Every game is an opportunity for him to learn more. Next season, with a better line, better receivers and a better understanding of all aspects of the game, he's going to light it up. Just wait.

Until the Bills can beat the Patriots, they aren’t going to win the AFC East. It’s been the reality for years, and nothing’s changed after the Pats’ 24-12 over the Bills on Sunday. Not that the Bills were going to win anything this season. It was a game we’ve all seen before. Pats coming at the Bills with a different look, and another different look, and another. It’s the Belichick way. It leads to confusion, which caused a timeout by Allen early in the first half. It leads to big plays against the Bills, like the jet-sweep runs. It leads to three and outs. This game looked like a lot of Bills-Pats games lately. The Pats always seem to be in control, but they don’t pull away. The game stays close, and in the third quarter it often looks like somehow the Bills could win. But the Pats ARE in control, and the Bills DON’T win. Characteristic of many Bills losses to New England is the turnover at an important part of the game. Who wasn’t screaming at Croom to go down and to hold on to the ball after his 24-yard reception took the ball down to the Patriots’ six-yard line? It was SO obvious. Take the gain, go down and avoid the gang tackle. A touchdown makes it a one-score game, and notwithstanding the Patriots impressive running game, the Bills would have been in a football game. Instead, the Pats put together a long drive, flip field position, get a three and out and get a field goal to put the Bills into a hole they couldn’t dig out of. It’s not just the Patriots that bring out Bills’ mistakes. It’s been happening all season. Penalties particularly. Part of Sean McDermott’s process has to be to develop a team that plays mistake-free football, to the greatest extent possible. Two years into the process, mistake-free isn’t how anyone would describe the Bills. It’s not a question of talent – it’s training, practice. ANY tight end in the league is trained to hold onto the ball; it isn’t about talent. Whatever McDermott is doing to teach that lesson isn’t working. He needs to work on his process. The game was pretty much over after the fumble. I had several reactions to the game: It was interesting to listen to Trent Green and Bruce Ariens critique Josh Allen. It was like two pros sitting in the family room, making observations to one another that most of us don’t see. Floating the ball on his first interception, and then again on the second interception to the other side. Not taking the easy checkdown to McCoy. Throwing to Foster in tight coverage by McCourty. Actually, I think they were wrong about that. They said it was a bad matchup. Well, you’ve got Gilmore on the other side, and that’s by definition a bad matchup. So you’re down to your third best receiver, and on the Bills, the third best receiver is also by definition a bad matchup. Allen made an excellent throw, and it’s one of those throws where you ask your receiver to make a play. Foster just didn’t make it. On the other hand, the announcers didn’t know anything about the Bills, or they didn’t bother to say anything about them. Nothing about Edmunds, a couple sentences about Lorenzo, nothing about the offensive line, nothing about the Bills’ safeties. There’s a lot to say about this team, and they didn’t bother to say it. What didn’t they say? Well, they actually said very little about Josh Allen. This season has been all about the Bills quarterback, and even with the problems Allen had against the Patriots, he looked like a star in the making. His arm is amazing. His pocket presence is great; he made a mistake, was nearly sacked in the end zone, and then made a miraculous play to avoid the safety. Very few QBs escape to make that play. Everything that I see from Allen that is good is very good. He’s calm, he understands a lot of what’s going on out there, he throws the ball beautifully. The things that I see that aren’t so good are the things that he should learn with experience: his desire to go downfield on every play, his failure to put air under some balls and to put too much under others. He’s seeing and learning every week. Now he’s seen Belichick and that defense. Some of what Allen needs is time throwing to his receivers. Too many plays where either Allen or the receiver misreads the defense. Of course, he also could use a better receiver or two. What’s up with McKenzie? Carted off the field for the second week in a row, and for the second week in a row he returned to play some more. Gotta give Belichick credit for figuring out how to run on the Bills. The Bills have to have better answers. The Pats don’t have a dominant offensive line, and the Bills’ defensive line, although not what you’d call stout, hasn’t given up yardage like that all season. Something needs to be fixed, and the something probably is some of the players on the front seven. Losing Milano certainly is part of the problem – he made a difference on the field every week until his injury. It was a pleasure to watch a game without a lot of penalty calls. Of course, pass interference in the end zone might have made the game different. Foster or McKenzie (who was it?) clearly was making a play on the ball and got pushed away. Two rules I’d like to see changed that won’t be: One is that a fumble into the end zone and then out of bounds is a turnover. That’s just wrong. If I fumble out of bounds at the one, I keep the ball. If I fumble it one yard deep into the end zone and then out of bounds, I lose the ball? Why? The other is the rule that the ball carrier has to touch the ground to be down. Edelman was tackled, clearly tackled. He was off his feet and on top of two defenders who were off their feet and on the ground. Gravity had done it’s job, and he was as down as he could be. If the ball carrier is off his feet by contact and is lying on players who also are off their feet and on the ground, the ball carrier should be ruled down. The Bills certainly are looking toward 2019. Charles Clay was inactive for the Pats game. He may be less mobile than Croom, but he’s certainly a better player than Logan Thomas. Just maybe not better for this coach and this team. It’s a good bet that Clay won’t be in Buffalo next season. Not that I’m in favor of tanking at all, but one more loss could give the Bills a spot near the top of the 2019 draft. The Bills will be a lot better in 2019 than 2018, because they are going to load up on talent. Every little bit helps, and drafting fifth in the first three rounds would be better than tenth. Still, there’s nothing better than a Bills win, and we owe the Dolphins a loss. GO BILLS!!! The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.

I was in a restaurant tonight and I saw a report from NBC sports Boston on TV No audio. It was about Bills Pats. Every video was Allen running. I agree with OP. The Boston press doesn't know anything about Allen.

Who is excusing, validating or justifying Clay's play? No one, so far as I can tell. Who's putting it mostly on Allen? Again, nobody. So your point seems to be that you want to argue with nobody. Are we to assume that you're okay with Allen's accuracy? Of you are, you're in the minority. If you aren't, then despite your arguments, you agree with what several of us have been saying.

You're 100% wrong. There are only two things that 100% certain about that play, at least things that matter. It's 100% certain that McDermott and Clay will both tell you that Clay should have caught it. And it's 100% certain that both McDermott and Allen will tell you that Allen should have thrown it better. When these guys get graded on that play, and they do get graded, Clay will get high markets for his recognition and route running and low marks for his execution of the catch. Allen will get high marks for handling the pocket, recognition and decent but not high marks for the throw. Clay won't get an F- and Allen won't get an A+ on the play. If you want to place blame AND if blame has to be 100%, then Clay gets the blame, because his total grade certainly is lower than Allen's. But these coaches are not about blame. They're about improvement, and your dreaming if you think the coaches didn't tell Allen that he didn't completely meet his objective on that play. Of course, they didn't have to tell him, because he already knew.

But now go back and look at the post you responded to. The ooster's point was that if Allen makes the throw he should have made, it's a 50-yard catch and run. That's not to say Clay shouldn't have caught the ball. Th point is that to be a too QB Allen still has work to do. But that isn't news.

Thanks. I have to admit, it makes me feel good that a lot of posters come to these threads with interesting things to say. What I say in the OP is usually less important than the points made in the discussion that follows.

You said it better.

Exactly.

I don't disagree with this, but it's all irrelevant when the team is on the field. Do you think that Allen on the field isn't aware that Clay needs a more precise pass than Croom? I'm sure he is. I haven't said and am not saying there's anything wrong with Allen. I'm a big Allen fan. We're talking about a single play on the football field. The truth is that where Allen put the ball, with Clay in the route, is a relatively low probability completion because Clay in 2018 doesn't make tough catches as often as he should. Allen knew that before the throw and after the throw. Should he not have made the throw? No, he made the right throw. That's his job. But if you ask him, speaking frankly he will tell you that he has to throw it better because Clay was the receiver. It's just the reality of playing games. Steph Curry wants every pass he makes to be perfect, but he knows Clay Thompson will handle the inaccurate pass better than Dramond Green.

Actually, I do know this. It was regularly commented on by offensive and defensive players during Elway's career. The receivers said it took nearly a year to get used to it, and it was obvious watching defenders be unprepared when the ball arrived.

This wasn't true for Elway. His receivers learned to look just a little quicker and to handle the speed. The defenders never got used to it because they couldn't practice it. It gave Elway an edge that others didn't have. Actually, Mc and Foster aren't targeted over the middle like Zay and Clay. Those are the throws that are getting on the receivers quickly. And Zay is catching them. Clay is having trouble with them. None of the Bills receivers are worldbeaters, and upgrades will be welcome.

Oh, yeah. He's gotta go. Allen needs a better option. But that's the future. Right now, you play with the guys you have.

True, but that's meaningless. If you paid me that money, I still wouldn't have caught the ball. Talking about the money is about whether a GM's decision turned out well, not about what to expect from players on the field.