Ayjent

PFF and other stat based analyses still haven’t figured out a good qualitative measure of QB play. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t, but they tend to be too focused on their methodology and measures explaining quality of play rather than the quality of play being supported by stats. I’ve seen enough from him to know that he has a legit shot at being a really good QB, and I’m not one who liked Allen and I’m not one to be easy on the Bills’ decision making at that position. Allen has had poor protection in many games, no running game to balance the offense in many games, and skill position players who haven’t elevated their games (with the exception of Foster). He looks far more capable than Rosen or Darnold, but he really does need to look for the easier play than the big play and know when to take chances for the big play rather than the safe play. He’s not a roller coaster of inconsistency like EJ and he isn’t a limited passer like Tyrod. However, he doesn’t get into a rhythm as a passer and that is something I want to see him do at some point soon. I understand that the limited talent around him makes that difficult.

I’ve seen kickers with much better effort at tackling

I think that covers it. I think Rosen being worse at making plays is the difference between the two offenses and how bad the line looks. Allen is more mobile and able to extend plays and drives because of it. There is no question he is getting immediate pressure more than any QB in the league, and despite the line play he is showing progress and understanding of the game as the season goes on. I need to see more, but his reads are getting better and his running is the product of understanding what he sees for the taking. i think the Bills have more talent on the OL starting than the Cardinals, but the OL coaching is subpar for the Bills and the talent difference isn’t much. Outside of Dawkins who looks pretty average, the Bills OL is basically backup caliber on most teams that starts for the Bills.

I didn't like the Allen draft pick. I didn't like what they spent on getting him and I didn't think he was the right guy. Right now I'm starting to feel a lot better about what they did. The Mahomes thing will always haunt the Bills, but Allen is progressing and is looking a lot better. His mobility is outstanding, and he is starting to sense the pressure and the outlets when it comes, although he is bailing on the pocket sometimes. His throws have been better too, but he still isn't getting into a rhythm passing. His two last throws in the Dolphins game were both good difficult throws, and I think the Bills should've gotten the benefit of a PI call on Zay, but the ref awarded the catch and that was overturned. I think this happens sometimes - refs award one or the other, but not both because of the closeness of the call either way - I think it may have gotten a PI call if it was clearly incomplete. Still a very good back shoulder throw that if he can continue to improve on as a go to throw - he will have a much better passing repertoire. As for the Clay throw - no one is totally 100% culpable but Clay had a ton of time to adjust to a ball that traveled a really good distance - Clay didn't have to move much by NFL receiving target standards (that is an understatement). Could Allen have put it on the money so that Clay didn't have to move hardly at all? Sure. Could Clay have made a better adjustment on the ball? Definitely and if he had he could have easily caught the ball and did a Nestea plunge or any other overdramatic time consuming theatrics to score. He seems to be working on adding to his skill set and the progress is encouraging. Allen would have better numbers if the receivers were more sure handed or better - there is no question about that. They've got to get better there and Beane/McDermott have already churned and burned two of their biggest acquisitions at the position, and their highest draft pick at the position is playing well, but does not appear to be a No. 1. Certainly a starter, but not a guy that is a marquee WR or even close to a No. 1. I've got to say that I think having different receivers on the field is making an overall difference for the Offense as well - the passing game has simply looked better without Kelvin Benjamin on the field as much, and you know the players and coaches were sensing that as well. He simply didn't want to be effective and fight enough for position on tight coverage throws, which is the only thing that made him a good target - we saw him play next level against Carolina in the preseason and unfortunately for him that set a bar for his skills that he never even cam close to again during this season. I think he's done in this league, despite likely getting a few more chances. Finally, the Offense around Allen is barren and aging - Clay, McCoy and Ivory have their best days behind them. They need young legs at RB and TE to give Allen more support and options. The line has been better than I thought, but that is not to say that they are even remotely good, but they aren't the absolute worst which is kind of remarkable. The Offense really has nowhere to go but up and if Allen is showing promise under these circumstances there is a good chance for him to pan out - still a ways to go, but he can definitely play and he certainly looks like a leader that guys will follow.

Greg McCrae (UCF) is probably the best RB in the AAC but only a sophomore. He’s got burst and great vision. There are lots of good value backs that you can find in rounds 4-7. The Bills just need to get one on the roster.

I’m surprised he finished the ad.

Josh Allen had a good game against Minnesota, but the first quarter was full of opportunities for the team - two of their drives resulting in scores were after take aways on a short field, and the other was helped by two personal fouls. They had two decent long drives (50+ yds) the whole game, and the rest were just cashing in on good D and turnovers. Not knocking his play, he made the most of the opportunities and it is by far his best game, but 15 completions and less than 200 yds wasn't nearly as good as leading the Offense having 5 drives of 50+ yards resulting in TDs with a good deal of chunk plays (47 yd to Foster, 33yds to Jones, 22 yds to Holmes, 43 yds to Foster). Barkley looked more consistent than Allen in those respective games and had better command of the Offense. The Bills moved the ball very well all game because they had complimentary passing and running. Granted Allen played a better D - but as far as overall QB play - I think you can objectively say Barkley played better than Allen because he was more consistent and helped sustain longer drives and more of them. I'm not saying start Barkley if Allen is healthy, but its something to keep in mind with Allen's play which hasn't really been very good with any consistency. A couple of flashes here and there, but really not much to get excited about outside of the first half of the Viking game. Allen looks better than I thought he would passing, but the Offense looks pretty meh with him at QB most of the time, and he wasn't playing that well before he got injured. Maybe it will come together, but he's got to get a lot better at a lot of things. He kinda reminds me of Ryan Tannehill

I think the point is that the Offense looked the best it has all season with a guy that had pretty much a career that was pretty much coming to an end if this didn't pan out for him, and with less than 2 weeks with the team. He showed that this team's offense could look good with some decent QB play. Maybe it was an aberration like the Minn game. It's hard to say with just week of play. But we certainly hadn't seen anyone play as effective at QB this season than Barkley.

That depends on how it goes. He's had plenty of "learning experiences" already. If he stinks it up he really might need to ride the pine for a little while. It would be nice to see him have a game where he flashes a lot of consistent good play, because those have been few and far between. Now that another QB has come in to show that it is possible, I think it mounts some extra pressure on the rookie to perform - which I'm all for because that the more important "learning experience" than facing a good D. Responding to pressure is what makes you great or wilt. On the other hand, how much patience is the rest of the team going to have with Allen if they have a QB on the bench that got the Offense going, and the Offense is going nowhere under Allen? It's a tricky dynamic for a head coach, who certainly is trying to win as many games as possible and have the team playing its best at all times. No good coach wants his team to go lay eggs for draft position. They want these guys to get better every game, and if you are going to stifle everyone else at the expense of the QB that may backfire in the locker room. Sure you've got to know what you have at QB, it's the most important position, but if you aren't getting good QB play, its not going to be easy to assess the rest of your offense and what needs to improve. Maybe the OL isn't that bad, maybe it is - maybe the receivers are bad, maybe they aren't (outside of KB - who is playing himself into a vet minimum contract this offseason). I think its a hard spot to put the rookie in, but a necessary one. The best thing he can do is come out and have his best game.

Between Allen, Peterman and Anderson - yeah Allen was head and shoulders above the other two. But you can't deny that Barkley had the best QB performance by a Bill this season and it's not even close. I'm fine with them starting either Barkley or Allen. I think Allen's pocket presence is still problematic. He holds the ball too long and hasn't shown any consistency in moving in the pocket to make time for himself. I don't know if that is something that will improve with presnap recognition, I'm hopeful that it does. Everything else seems to be there, but that ability to make good quick decisions is what separates the superstars from the busters.

No it was painfully obvious that the guys who were fired earned it. Mularkey - final season was the only memorable thing, was able to get okay Offense out of team with Drew Bledsoe, but couldn't beat the Steelers backups for the playoffs. Was an embarassing end, and he opted not to be the Head coach amongst the regime change in the FO. Jauron (yawn) - fielded a roster that was short on talent and was good at getting decent play out of little talent, but didn't do much better with better talent. It was a long 4 years. He deserved to go, and the Offense was a joke. Gailey and Nix bottomed out in year 1, got better in the start of year 2 (the Fitzmagic early season run) and then were middling the rest of the way until it was clear the team wasn't going anywhere under Gailey, especially with poor Defensive coaching. So then they hire Marrone, who brings in a whole new staff and a DC that knows what he is doing, but they lost a serviceable QB in Fitz and hit reset with EJ, a poor choice for a franchise QB - they play decent the first year considering the QB position lumps they expected and then Marrone gets into it with the FO about personnel, the Bills get Orton, hire Schwartz and have a decent season predicated on solid defense and pedestrian offense at 9-7. Marrone opts out. The two guys who quit after going 9-7 would've been nice to see coach a little longer, not that I'm fondly remembering their tenures, but they achieved a winning record. The guys that were fired simply weren't good head coaches, and their careers post-Buffalo speak for themselves. Jauron, Gailey and Rex all earned their firings and it was all painfully clear by the time it happened in each scenario that it was the right course. What it shows is that they have had poor organizational structure that can't identify what works in the NFL, how to identify a good coach and how to make good personnel moves in a consistent way. The coaching is a big deal, but the problems don't begin or end at the coaching staff. Sure ultimately, those guys being hired aren't getting the job done, but neither are the guys bringing in the coaches and players.

One other thing that people need to get their heads around too is that these guys had a playoff roster last year (albeit by a slim margin, but a playoff roster nonetheless). It wouldn't have been difficult to keep that team relatively intact and make changes where you thought could make improvements. If you don't think that is what they thought they were doing going into this year, I don't know what to tell you because the other option is that they purposely made the team worse so that they could turn up the heat on their jobs with a necessity to get a lot of decisions right this upcoming offseason. Just logically think about the latter as a stratagem for job security and ultimate success. I know that the latter may seem like a good way to explain what these guys are doing in the best possible light and I think that's fine - we all have our coping mechanisms with a bad team. But if I'm betting one way or the other I'm guessing they didn't anticipate the Offense being this bad and thought that they would be no worse than last year, with maybe some improvement at WR (healthy Benjamin and Jones taking a step up in his development), more ups and downs in QB play but better passing game, and some fixable issues on the OL. This is not going as planned for them and that should concern all of us as fans.

When generally even and positive posters get negative, you know the Bills are definitely going in the wrong direction. Honestly, what they did last year was absolutely remarkable considering the losses on Offense, but I think there are a couple of good reasons for last year's success: I think the players truly did not like Rex's staff coaching the defensive side of the ball. I think the players knew that they could be much better and the scheme was making them look bad. McD and Frazier brought a better scheme and was a welcome change. I think they had continuity in the Offense with McCoy, Taylor, Clay, and most of the OL - although they certainly felt the lack of talent that walked or was traded away at WR and the lack of depth at RB. As well as the downgradee in coaching on the Offensive side of the ball at OC and OL coach. They had some momentum early, lost it, and then regained enough to put themselves in position to have a winning record This past offseason, Beane and McD continued churning the roster and what didn't hurt as much last year is starting to catch up with them when you strip away too much talent and don't have good enough replacements: The retirement of Wood and the Incognito situation while may be unexpected this year, but they were both likely to retire or decline soon anyhow - this was something that both Whaley and McD/Beane failed to have any contingency for and I'm sorry but 5th round picks and later are long shots to be replacements as good or better than Wood and Incognito. You lose these two interior anchors, and then trade away a proven above average starter at T, so that you can pick an unproven raw QB to play behind a decimated line with the best player being a Tackle going into his 2nd year after not even a full season starting. You let your starting MLB walk in FA and create the need at the position, then use high value extra picks that could address some of the holes so that you can draft a MLB that is a specimen but still raw. You trade away a professional veteran presence at QB that may not want to relinquish the job, but don't you want your franchise prospect to unseat the guy that preceded him because he is undeniably better. You then acquire no veteran with a decent body of NFL work that can provide adequate play should the rookie not be ready, and then go into the season with a raw rookie, and a 2nd year guy that didn't show much of anything to think he could hold down the position while your rookie gets acclimated to the NFL or should he struggle. You show that you can put together pieces on D with the same cap limitations that apply to the team, but the Offensive moves show a lack of understanding. You bring in an unproven NFL coordinator that has done nothing but struggle in his stints as an OC in the NFL. You keep an OL coach that has had a maligned career, and you convert a WR coach into a QB coach to develop your rookie. People can talk about the cap and the picks and that building takes time, but there is a body of work already on the books and to think that it will magically get better in the offseason with the FO and Coaching stafff and what they have done so far is pretty optimistic. I want to be optimistic, but I'm paying attention to these guys and I just don't see anything that shows any semblance of an understanding of how to put together a good Offensive coaching staff or good Offensive personnel. It's great that they went out and got a QB, and Allen looks much better than I thought he would, but he has a long, long way to go - it's hard to put your finger on how much of it has to do with the Offensive scheme vs the lack of talent at QB and Offense in general. There is no question that both are responsible for the results, but it is hard to evaluate the rookie QB. I think good play design gets receivers open in the NFL, and even though the talent at WR is not great - I think the plays themselves are not putting the talent the Bills do have in a good enough position to succeed. The FA players will see what's going on with this Offense and no WR/TE is going to want to come to Buffalo to watch their stats and production decline, because that is the currency for the next payday. Maybe they'll be able to convince someone, but it will be a short honeymoon if the Offensive philosophy and play design doesn't change. The OL players were not thrilled with Castillo last year and lobbied for changing the schemes - again, good luck attracting good OL players to play with a coach that doesn't know how to maximize the talent's effectiveness. This is not a desirable situation for FAs and as much as money talks - so does a good situation to succeed, because that means money down the road too.

McDermott was here for both, and I think that merits both Drafts for the new regime. Please don't give me the technicality of Whaley as a lame duck GM. We'll see if everyone is right or wrong soon enough, but this year certainly wasn't what they anticipated, and I think people are kidding themselves if they truly thought they would struggle this bad this year. You'll come around eventually on how these guys are not the answer for either constructing or coaching this franchise into a perennial power in the AFC. It's just a matter of time. Then they'll be the scapegoats for the next regimes failures.

The new regime has had two drafts to address the OL, and they created their own holes they needed to fill in trading Glenn and putting a high emphasis on MLB, rather than the OL in front of their handpicked QB. You can rationalize the moves but the results speak for themselves.

I guess they don't miss Wood either, just the collective of losing 3 former Pro Bowl OL at one time. I guess they don't miss Incognito either, just the collective of losing 3 former Pro Bowl OL at one time. I'm just messing with you, and understand what you are trying to say, but they do miss Glenn - having another quality OL player would help, probably a lot. They needed to upgrade the right side before McD and Beane got here and have a contingency plan to replace the strength of the line which was clearly getting long in the tooth other than Glenn. That is one of the major issues I've had with the Offensive rebuild - one high pick to address all of that, and then basically nullifying that with trading away the only remaining good OL you have.

But they will be their bad contracts not the previous regime's - so that makes it okay. I actually hope that they don't go stupid and take on a lot of bad contracts that will saddle them for years. I hope that they stockpile picks and try to build a good solid foundation and keep the money for the guys they want to keep down the road. They aren't going to fix this team through FA.

Most teams don't let good players go and resign the goods ones. You have about 10% of the remaining FAs that are worth the contracts, and that takes great pro personnel guys that know what to look for and who is a good player. As much as I didn't like Whaley as GM, he was good at identifying pro talent on other teams for the most part (but still bad contracts galore). Beane's staff has not shown that they are even close in that department, especially on the Offensive side of the ball. Building through FA is the biggest red herring in the NFL - every team that looks like they make a lot of big moves in FA usually ends up well short of expectations. You build through the draft and sign your own talent, then supplement it with value FA signings or good trades. If you can't build through the draft you are dead in the water, because those are the most valuable contracts in the NFL.

Further evidence of the great decision making going on at OBD. You're closer to a fish taco than the Bills are to a good team.

Believing they haven't tried to rebuild the Offense through all of their moves is like telling yourself an incredibly bad looking preseason offense is just playing opossum until the regular season starts - and we know how that turns out.

The best Bills teams threw the ball all over the field for their day in the snow and cold and that was their advantage, a very good OL and very good skill players. A defense with some stars that could make some opportune plays, but not a shut down unit. Hmm. Do you think maybe they could give that another try sometime, other than the Chan Gailey era where they neglected the QB position in the draft and put all of their eggs into the Fitzmagic wagon? Now they have a defensive minded coach that has acquired most of the personnel for his D and somehow magically hoped a raw rookie from Wyoming and a 5th round pick from Pitt were good enough with a line that not only endured two huge losses, but also traded their other multi-year proven starter at the most important position on the OL. If you have to give up a proven LT to get an unproven QB when you just lost your starting LG and C, you might want to reconsider what you are doing. In a lot of ways the trades that looked like really good moves to acquire draft capital last year mirrored the playoff run that had Bills fans excited. This year the perplexing use of all of that draft capital and the need to acquire even more draft capital by getting rid of a game managing QB that really should be McD's soul mate (safe with the Ball and likes to run) and proven above average starter at LT to get two players that haven't proven a thing mirrors the s#!t show that is the 2018 Buffalo Bills. They gutted this offense and reshaped it as they saw fit. So far it sucks. Last year was buoyed by the holdovers - this year, well, it speaks for itself. I think what makes this even more frustrating is that you don't really even have much youth to watch develop on the O and say just give it time - Allen, Dawkins and Jones are what you can watch, but Allen is hurt, Jones has been disappointing, and Dawkins is playing okay, not great. What are we supposed to get excited about? Ray Ray McCloud? They've been missing with their Offensive moves - big time, and if you think they are going to magically turn it around this offseason, I love your optimism. I hope that they do, but I wouldn't bet on it. There is absolutely no evidence that they can do anything beyond identifying a decent back up RB.

That's the way I see it as well - they either get through the end of next year or canned in the middle of it. There is a lot of rationalizing of why they aren't good and how they'll be better next year with picks and cap room. Problem is that same group of rationalizing fans were the same people telling us how the guys on the roster could at the very least perform as well as last year's offense and saw us building on last year's success. Here is what will be telling in the offseason, how they go about trying to build a winner with heat ratcheting up on their tenure. Do they abandon the process and start going into win now at all costs mode or do they stay the course moving guys who have value and are getting older for draft capital? I saw a flawed method from the get go, and last year had me questioning myself and thinking wow maybe these guys are good at what they are doing, then this offseason happened and I think it all finally caught up with them. Sometimes you can get by on luck and goodwill from a necessary change at HC. That honeymoon ended and now we are seeing the gory details. They likely will improve, but it's going to be too little too late with a team that started with a lot of talent stripped down to one without much at all and in need of a coach. Problem is that no one is going to want to touch the Bills if a better opportunity presents itself - and then the Bills become the new Browns.

Fun fact - when asked about his team's execution, coach John McKay responded "I'm for it". Never will get that from McSerious

Shaw, You are a tough fan to break, but when you do - you let them have it. All too sad and too true. For the TLDR crowd - here is the synopsis: It's bad coaching of bad players making bad plays.

How do you know where I am? I am laughing...a lot. You seem to be the one upset by the comments and making a lot presumptions about where I am coming from or what I mean. I'm casually watching the games and the Bills have me about checked out on really caring about the results of the game, much less any play getting me excited or upset. I anticipated that this season would be trash and I expected the same last year too. Surprisingly it was a miracle run by the team, an opportunistic D, a close to the vest O, and a ton of lucky bounces last year. I don't expect much will change next year either, but we could all be pleasantly surprised. I don't like what they are doing as a franchise, but I'm willing to watch it unfold and hope that I'm wrong. I don't hate Nate, I just don't think he is cut out for the NFL, and there is nothing wrong with that. Guy is living a dream that many would love the chance to do. Just because it doesn't go your way doesn't mean it wasn't fun or you aren't thankful for the opportunity. I think Nate understands that from what I've seen.