transplantbillsfan

Super glad he's retiring a Bill. I wish he finished his career with Buffalo as a complement to Shady. He would have been a better option than Tolbert last year, that's for sure.

Thank you... hopefully a new messenger gets this across better

There are probably well over 80-120 guys who were drafted over the years as project QBs. Raw out of college and drafted for pure physical talent to mould like a ball of clay. These guys have been drafted higher than they should have throughout the history of the NFL. And, like Allen will be, they were drafted primarily for their physical potential, showing only possible flashes of that potential in college. These are guys you're going to essentially have to fundamentally change in the NFL. The OP asked a very simple question that you seem afraid to answer. Where are all these project QBs who have gone on to be good?

You are lost. Typical Thurm, lost in an argument. And still obsessed with Tyrod here I see. Literally obsessed that. But the irony that might be lost on you here, of course, is that the same logic you used consistently in arguing that Taylor wouldn't turn into a Franchise QB (which I was a solid believer in, I readily admit, up until the Steelers game of 2016) is the very same logic I'm using here and you're strangely adamantly denying. Remember obsessing over how only Rich Gannon became a Franchise QB after his 6th or 7th or whatever year in the NFL and how that was your knock on Taylor. So rather than your clear obsession over me and Tyrod Taylor... just answer the OP... who are the Project QBs historically who did reach potential? And true project QBs in the vein of Allen. Rodgers is probably one, but he had the benefit of sitting for 3 years. I could see a Rodgers like fall for Allen and a team like the Patriots drafting him as a project. Favre is another, but he was drafted in the 2nd round and was traded by the team that drafted him. Who else? Project QBs. Those guys are obvious in terms of category for pure physical ability and stature: EJ Manuel, Brock Osweiler, Paxton Lynch, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Josh Freeman, etc. Hey... Thurm... remember how you argued historical tendencies????

I'm actually glad you brought up Carson Wentz. I think that this is simply the Carson Wentz effect. Think about it. 2 years ago Carson Wentz was coming out of college after having unbelievable success at a really small school. There were tons and tons of questions about him simply because of his level of competition. He was extremely physically gifted and was incredibly successful against the competition he played in college. But there were doubts about how that would translate to the NFL. Those doubts probably caused Cleveland to trade they're pick with the Rams and cause the Rams to pass on Wentz. Mistake? Oh yeah... despite Goff having a good 2017 campaign. But as soon as whence came into the NFL and had a really strong start, where could you look in college for the next Carson Wentz other than Wyoming? And what did Josh Allen do in 2016? He was pretty good. Maybe really good. Depending on your criteria. Suddenly, he's the Talk of the Town. Potentially the first pick of the draft next year! And then he followed that up with a blah 2017 campaign. "But hey! He still has all the physical tools, right? He could be the next Carson Wentz!" Of course, the 2018 draft is the perfect storm for Josh Allen because of all the teams in the NFL currently desperately wanting to draft a QB... and gee... national pundits and analysts have a clue, so yeah, they're also pumping him up a bit because the writing on the wall is there... it's a nearly 100% lock that at least 4 teams are drafting a QB in the 1st round this year: Cleveland, NYJ, Buffalo and Arizona. Then you throw in teams that might draft a QB because of a combination of potential need and circumstance with NYG, Denver, Miami, and even the Patriots with a potential trade up looming and it's pretty obvious this is going to be the most QBs drafted in the 1st round since... what... 1983? So sure, the media and pundits make money off being right. Saying Josh Allen will be drafted in the top 10 of the 1st round seems like a no-brainer. But I still won't be shocked if he falls.

Matt Ryan played in the ACC against serious competition... same with McNabb who plaued in the Big East at the tail end of being a legit football conference. And both of those guys improved every year in college. Klingler kinda fits. Not much of an NFL QB. Same with Ware before him. But both guys had record setting college careers which propelled them to the 1st round of the draft. Both were massive busts. And as far as Allen being rare for "being good enough in his situation to be considered a top 10 pick," well, I don't know what you mean by "good enough," but I thought of 2 cautionary tales that are frighteningly similar to Josh Allen: Jake Locker & Blaine Gabbert Maybe Josh Freeman. Really there have been plenty of project QBs drafted in the 1st round and even high in the history of the NFL. And several even meet what I thought was pretty basic criteria, but none have been successful. Does that ensure that Allen won't be successful? Well, no, of course not. But the odds are seriously against him historically. And frankly, it would be unwise to target a QB high in a top-heavy, QB rich draft who has maybe a 5% chance of becoming an NFL Franchise QB. Not impossible, just extremely unlikely.

Weird that in your 1st fact check you contradict your own facts by saying 2016 was his 1st year starting in college despite also mentioning that he transferred to Wyoming from a Juco, which means Junior COLLEGE. And did you seriously just say the Cam Newton comparison isn't far off and bring up competition like San Diego State in the same breath as a QB who played powerhouses like Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Clemson and won a National Championship game against Oregon

No one fits the Josh Allen project QB prototype for a guy drafted in the top 10 since Phil Simms in 1979. Steve McNair was an incredibly successful college QB, even if it was at a small school http://www.espn.com/page2/s/list/collegefootball/seasons.html McNair's incredible season, in which he led his 1-AA team to an 8-2-1 record, will always be suspect -- he was playing on a pass-giddy team against smaller competition. But the heck with the doubters. Troy State head coach Larry Blakeney, who coached Bo Jackson during his 12 years at Auburn, told the L.A. Times, "Steve McNair is the best football player I've ever seen. ... He'd be the best player on Colorado's team or Nebraska's team, too. He'd be the best player on any team in Division I-A. He's that good. ... He can do more to beat you with his abilities than anyone else I've ever seen. That includes Bo." McNair's stats: 4,863 yards passing, 936 yards rushing for an NCAA record 5,799 yards in total offense. QB rating: 155.4. TD passes: 44. And in the Heisman voting, he managed to finish third despite the doubters, and received 111 first-place votes. Brett Favre can be viewed in the same light as Josh Allen in terms of entering the NFL. He was also a 2nd round draft pick and traded away to have his eventual HOF career with a team that didn't draft him. Phil Simms. I've been challenging someone to find me a QB between 1979 and now who played at a small college against mediocre competition and had mediocre stats who was drafted in the top 10 of the 1st round and went onto a good NFL career. Still waiting

You don't have 12 friggin minutes to spare??? Yah right, this thread begs to differ. Whatever dude, I hope we get Mayfield or Darnold. It's already clear the division that's going to continue on this board if we draft Jackson. Wherever he does end up, I think you'll be very surprised how successful he is as an NFL QB.

I'm not invalidating my score. I just told you it stands. You're right in a sense about hubris in the sense that I just decided to take the test on a whim for fun during recess in my classroom with students chatting and doing work on the side. And I was a bit dismissive of it in terms of attitude. Do you know Lamar Jackson's approach to the test? Do you know if he took it seriously? Based off his own history, if anything, it's possible schools did what they often do for star athletes which is push them through the system at a lower bar than regular students purely because of how talented they are and what they bring to their school. So, it's possible that Jackson doesn't have the same amount of knowledge you or I have, but knowledge does not equal intelligence and knowledge doesn't really relate to one's ability to process new information. As far as processing football information of an offense and on the field... well, there's his game tape and there's also how damn hard he worked as he came into Louisville without having ever had to use an offensive playbook in High School: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2662128-the-education-of-lamar-jackson-how-louisville-qb-went-from-project-to-superstar The Education of Lamar Jackson: How Louisville QB Went from Project to Superstar He picked Louisville, knowing coach Bobby Petrino's history of developing QBs. Then Petrino delivered the playbook. "It looked like foreign letters," Jackson remembers. "I came from a high school where I didn't have a playbook or anything like that. Coach would draw it up and get the headset on, and we'd go after it." and And so when Jackson arrived on campus, he was not even named among the three guys who might be the starting quarterback. The playbook was still Greek to him, as were progressions, tight ends in motion and blitzes. Darn blitzes. That was a year ago. A few days ago, he threw for six touchdowns and ran for two more. and "At first, I was like, 'Why are they trying to make me do this?'" Jackson says. "'I'm trying to sleep.' It was crazy. I'd watch my bad plays—my good plays, too." The truth is, at first he wasn't even sure exactly what he was watching. Then it started making sense, and he realized he enjoyed it. "When I started getting more into it, I realized, 'This is what I'm here for.'" and Petrino says some of the things usually considered "natural intangibles" need to be worked on, too. For example, last year, Jackson was petrified to talk with the media. So he took a media class and also enlisted the help of a local reporter.

If you honestly think that test is indicative of your intelligence, you're pretty naïve. I scored a 22 when I discovered that test and decided to take it. I really have no shame in saying that was my score. And I wouldn't have any shame in saying I scored a 13 if I did. I see standardized tests up close and personal all the time and understand the incredibly flawed nature of them in terms of what they're designed to measure versus what they actually measure. I've seen your posts. You're not almost twice as smart as me. I won't make any excuses for that score, whatsoever, but I know that a 22 on the Wonderlic is not indicative of my actual intelligence because I know that if I sat here and took that test again in a quiet room, focused and used some test taking strategies, I could drastically improve my score. But I'll let that 22 stand because I don't have anything to prove to myself. If anything, taking that test just further proves to me the idiocy of standardized tests, in general.

Can you tell me which of these questions are the strongest indicators of NFL success for a QB and how they apply to an NFL football field? Casey needed to move 23 huge boxes from his truck to the loading dock. His forklift could only hold three boxes at once. How many times did Casey have to visit the loading dock? Which word is different from the others? (Apple, Orange, Watermelon, Celery, Tomato) In four years, Phil will be half Tim’s age. Two years ago, Tim was five times Phil’s age. How old is Phil now? To thwart is to: (threaten, oppose, weaken, make fun of) What word, when added to the beginning of MILL and the end of CHAIN, creates two other words? Choose the sentence that most closely resembles the meaning of the proverb, “The pen is mightier than the sword.”

Pointless thread. We're getting a QB in the 1st round. I'll put money down on that one if you want.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!! I'm sure the irony of this is lost on you, Shady, but I'm done in here. Have fun.

I really don't care, actually. I just find it ironic because you often complain about other people starting useless threads, which this is, or posting them in the wrong forum, which this probably is. But have your fun

https://footballiqscore.com/ Do us all a favor. 1) Take the test right now with no practice. I'm betting that's what Jackson did since he's probably the only high profile coming out in decades to not have an Agent who would force him to practice and prepare for the test itself. The truth of the matter is that you can drastically improve your score on standardized tests with a few simple test taking strategies. It's often not indicative of intelligence or processing speed, but prior practice and proper test taking strategies. and 2) Tell us which questions apply to being a QB on an NFL field in terms of executing an offensive playbook and reading defenses. Maybe he just didn't think the test was worth a damn so he broke with convention and didn't prepare for the exam. From the sounds of it, it's possible the kid (and his mother) is so sick and tired of being cajoled time and time again into trying out other positions like punt returner or WR when all he's wanted to be is a QB and he's had historic success at the position after the last couple of years that's he's just at a "take it or leave it," point. He's going to be playing QB for a football team, he's not going to be a rocket scientist. What's the point of a standardized test? If you argue it's processing speed or ability to execute an NFL offense, he could just point to his college film over the last 2 years in an NFL offense against high-level competition.

So, you thought a quote coming less than 2 weeks before the draft by a Head Coach who is drafting late in the 1st round and in no position to draft any of the top QBs, but is probably ready to pounce on any potential QB who falls to him as his eventual replacement has any credibility whatsoever? C'mon man. This isn't even Bills worthy. It should be in some other "Around the NFL" forum.

Well... yeah, you're guilty. Glad you can admit that. It's like if people in this thread called you a loser. Just because you're proving in this thread you're a loser, it's still a personal attack.

I haven't looked at years past for Brandt... but does he often put this many QBs this high as it's relevant to all prospects? If this is indicative of the way most scouts rate these prospects regardless of position, then jesus, this is a top-heavy QB class. 3 of the 4 best players and 4 of the 7 best players in this draft, according to Brandt, are QBs. 5 QBs with legitimate 1st round grades. I just really hope Buffalo finds a way to get Mayfield, Darnold or Rosen... or passes on Allen and takes Jackson.

Because he sucks? That would be the answer I would hope for... but unfortunately, he did make a pre-draft visit to Buffalo. http://buffalonews.com/2018/04/16/report-josh-allen-makes-pre-draft-visit-to-the-bills/

Completely and ridiculously unrealistic. We're going to need to give up more than that to get to #2. At least one of our 2nds from this year, too... maybe even a 3rd.

Shady... is this a desperate cry for attention? Does anyone give a damn what a Head Coach who already has his Franchise QB says about this QB class? 'Tis the season of smoke and mirrors, folks...

1- Mayfield 2- Darnold 3- Rosen at 12 4- Jackson at 12 OR Rosen in a trade up I think Mayfield is going to be the best QB in this class.

Well, here's how he could realistically be looking at this... 5 positions? 1 - QB: Obviously we're drafting a QB high. No ifs, ands or buts about it. Even if he believes McCarron can start and be at least a lateral move from Taylor last year, he can't possibly look at him as a long term starter. 2 - MLB: Preston Brown's departure says that's absolutely a position of need, maybe more than any other position other than QB. 3 - G/C: Honestly, he might already feel we're good here with Groy, Bodine, Miller and Ducasse. Some combination of 3 of those 4 are likely going to be our interior OL. 4 - WR: I don't even think he would view this as a position we need a starter with Benjamin and Jones and several guys waiting in the wings like Streater and Reilly, but I'm sure we get another strong competitor at WR. Can anyone think of another position we'd need to fill this year??? It all just depends on the QB... but I still think we'll improve as a team from last year.

No