transplantbillsfan

There are actually 3 QBs battling for the job, not 2. And I'll be 100% supportive of whoever is under center for the Bills, despite whatever level of apprehension I might feel about that player. It's good Peterman has been working on arm strength and velocity, because if his arm strength remains the same from his rookie year through the rest of his career, he won't ever be more than a backup.

Obviously all is TBD, but there's no doubt that Allen is very smart and handles himself well. He also operated an NFL style offense at Wyoming. I would say my long term excitement about him largely stems from (and I've said this time and time again) just how much of a late-bloomer he was, and not just physically but also in terms of how late it was he was truly immersed in high-level Football. He played in college, but he was a 3 sport athlete rather than concentrating year-round on learning and honing his skills and knowledge as a QB. He played at a JuCo, so he didn't get a ton there. Then he was at Wyoming where he really was exposed full-steam ahead to the game. I already posted that quote at the top of the page from the Buffalo News article regarding Allen talking about never going to QB camps the way the other prospects did, but I think a couple of these quotes from an interview with Brent Vigen are also telling and respond a bit to what you bring up: https://www.google.com/amp/s/draftwire.usatoday.com/2018/05/07/josh-allen-nfl-draft-bills-wyoming-brent-vigen/amp/ JM: You’ve worked very closely with him for a number of years now. He’s had his fair share of ups and downs as a player. How do you feel he grew during his time at Wyoming? BV: I would say he grew in every which way. When he arrived here, he was about 205 pounds. He was probably still 6-foot-4. He grew physically. That was significant, because he’s about 240 pounds now. He hadn’t really found himself in the weight room before he got to Wyoming. Once he got more comfortable in there, it made a significant impact on his physical ability. Mentally, having played just one season in junior college, that was small-school ball in California. His baseline for what they did wasn’t very significant. His understanding of the game and the nuances of both offense and defense, those ideas in his mind really grew in his time here. I would say maturity-wise, as well, but that’s probably the same for all our guys. You just see them through that phase of life where they mature and start to figure things out. I think it was a great benefit in a lot of ways for Josh coming back for an additional season. I think the biggest thing was maturity. It was about having to deal with the expectations that were placed upon him from the early part of last year. It doesn’t always go as planned, but you learn how to deal with those things. I would say that he grew a tremendous amount physically, mentally and emotionally throughout his three years at Wyoming. JM: At this point in time, which aspects of his game would you say are the most developed? His understanding of a fairly sophisticated offense that we ran at Wyoming is there. There’s not gonna be this dramatic shift for him. He can speak the language. He can recite a play. He can make decisions at the line of scrimmage. These are all things he’s already done. For some kids who go from college to the pros, that’s a transition for them. He is not perfect by any means, but he’s already been exposed to a lot of things. I don’t think the transition is gonna be great as a lot of people out there seem to think.

Yeah I saw that, I'm just skeptical of how much he improved it in thread 4 or 5 months the offseason was. But we shall see.

I think this is an interesting tidbit... pretty good indication of his room to grow: https://buffalonews.com/2018/06/22/josh-allen-says-michael-strahan-give-him-the-best-pre-draft-advice/ The most interesting answer from Allen came when the quarterbacks talked about the rise in personal quarterback coaches and a growing camp circuit. “I never did that growing up,” Allen told host Robert Klemko. “I came from a small town. I didn’t really go the camps. I was too busy playing different sports. … Watching kids grow up and play different sports, allowing them to develop different parts of their athleticism, to me was a big part of my success in college."

As I stated a few times already, if Peterman significantly improved his arm strength, that could be a game changer. But it would have to be a significant improvement. And muscle-mass doesn't necessarily mean he's developed those quick-twitch muscles an NFL QB has in his arm in order to release the ball quickly and with velocity. And if this is just the media watching him throw the ball around to his own teammates in shorts with no threat of being hit and using their own judgement on improved arm strength... well, I'll wait at least til the pads come on to start getting excited. Soooo... you're SaviorPeterman, riiiiight??? His last post was late February. You joined during the draft... actually the day after Josh Allen was drafted was when you became a member. Been to any high level business meetings lately?

So now I started the comparison despite the fact that I was directly responding to the comparison you made while simultaneously claiming you didn't make a comparison that you clearly made??? Man, you bring up straw man arguments I'm supposedly making and go on to make such an ugly one yourself. Manning started his first 4 games of his rookie year, thrown right into the fire and threw 146 passes for 992 yards. He took over for a team that was ranked 19th and 20th in YPG and PPG in 1997, and helped bring them up to 12th and 19th in 1998, precisely as you point out, though conveniently leaving out the team he took over. Yeah, he threw 11 INTs in those 4 games, but this was a bad team (including offense) the previous season coming off a 3-13 campaign and Manning had the arm talent and football smarts to be the most sure-fire Franchise QB to come out in a decade and a half. Peterman had half the season to sit and learn and watch before coming in and throwing a grand total of 49 passes in the 4 games you cite for a whopping 252 yards. His first live action came when the team was already blown the !@#$ out and the other D was in prevent mode. His first start was a sheer and utter historical disaster throwing 5 INTs with a 6th dropped... all in one half. Then he ended the season with this pass to Jalen Ra... I mean, Deonte Thompson: 6 Interceptions in 52 attempts along with getting himself knocked out of another game. A 7th INT that would have likely been a 2nd pick-6 dropped. But the numbers really aren't what bug me the most about Peterman. It's the sheer lack of an NFL arm, and I posted that clip because you can see it there. 2 of his 6 Interceptions (plus the one that the Charger DB dropped) are because of guys knowing the kid doesn't have the arm talent to get it to the sidelines quick enough. This is about physical ability he just doesn't have... or certainly didn't at least last year. And I thought even in the preseason when posters here were praising his play I was here saying his arm looked too weak and that in regular season action defenders could and would pretty easily jump routes. Manning had the physical ability along with the mental makeup from the get-go. While his arm was never a Cannon, it was always considered "good" in his early years by NFL standards. All of that disregards the pretty significant "different era" argument when it comes to how a QB like Manning or Aikman did early on vs QBs today. Back to stats alone, you just don't find QBs who are successful in the NFL start out absolutely sucking right off the bat anymore. Do you? Maybe Goff is the best example because he threw 5 picks in his first 4 games, but he also threw 4 TDs... and again, this was on 136 pass attempts, not 49. That might be the closest example there is... and yet again, it was with the 1st overall pick--a guy with all the tools, physically and mentally. But if, as you claim, Peterman's improved his arm strength, I hope it's by a lot, because that could make him at least interesting. I just have a hard time believing he improved it that significantly in a single offseason.

2017 = Longest Playoff Drought in Sports BROKEN The answer should be yes for any true Bills fan purely for the moment it happened.

1st overall pick with both physical and mental talent regarded as the most can't-miss prospect in a decade and a half with NFL pedigree playing on an absolutely atrocious team throws 1 TD and 3 INTs in a game... game #1 of his rookie year... on a team that finished 3-13 the previous year Vs Late 5th round QB with some mental talent but below average to terrible NFL physical talent with no pedigree coming from a relatively small college program with minor success starts game #9 of his rookie year and throws 5 INTs in a half for a team clinging to a playoff spot Jesus... what a leap. Yeah... you're all Devil's Advocate Thurm, so not really a surprise you'd say you're excited. The appropriate word, if Peterman starts, is anxious... the true definition of that word.

And all 4 of the guys you mention here were good to excellent from the very beginning. None of them threw 5 INTs in their 1st start. Hell, none of them threw 3 INTs in their 1st start. Warner threw 2... but he also threw 3 TDs... so did Bulgaria, without the INTs. Brady and Romo these ZERO INTs in their 1st starts. Peterman had his shot... he epically failed... twice.

Actually I think Kirby's question was a pretty good one. Jeff Tuel was a preseason star, much like Peterman. And he was lauded for a number of similar traits. Then when the regular season came and he faced real NFL teams, he was exposed... but not as exposed as Peterman was against the Chargers and then by Ramsey against the Jags. Why is the Peterman situation so different? It's not like he's loaded with physical ability. Peterman was a late 5th round draft pick for a reason just like Tuel was a UDFA for a reason, right? Your attempt to use preseason as any sort of validation for Peterman is a very empty one: See EJ Manuel Preseason 2015 followed by regular season stinker in London.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/billswire.usatoday.com/2018/06/19/buffalo-bills-adam-schein-nathan-peterman-josh-allen/amp/ CBS Sports host says Nathan Peterman is 'terrible at football,' thinks he'll lose QB competition "I could not believe my eyes this weekend when I saw a report that Nathan Peterman–yeah, Nathan Peterman–who threw five interceptions in the first half of his first NFL start, still in the mix to win the Bills’ starting quarterback job. Wait, what?” Schein said. “I mean, first of all, Mike Rodak, who had this story, is a superb reporter. I have a better chance to start in Week 1 for the Buffalo Bills than Nathan Peterman. It’s not going to happen. Mainly because Nathan Peterman is terrible at football. “Josh Allen? He’s never thrown a pass in the NFL and he’s already better. This is why they traded up and gave up everything to get Josh Allen. Josh Allen is going to be the Week 1 starter. I’ve been saying that for a long time. And by the way, AJ McCarron, and I’m not a big AJ McCarron fan at all you guys know that, but he’s better than Nathan Peterman."

The sheer irrelevance of this post is incredible. Soooo... McCarron? Are you saying you believe McCarron starts week 1?

1) Yep 2) Not when you don't have base-level NFL QB arm strength like Peterman. Rumors are he strengthened his arm in the offseason. Let's hope he did a lot, because otherwise he's never going to have a chance to start more than a handful of games in the NFL as a backup. And Allen is reported to have extremely high Football IQ. 3) I remember Peterman was called "Nate Favre" by Hyde. That, while seemingly intended as praise, to me seemed more like a Freudian slip of an insult, because that's exactly what Peterman seems to be, half of Favre, just not the talented half.

BWAHAHAHA!!! Shady must be in love with me or something What a stalker

I see you aren't ignoring me. Look Shady!!! You're almost at 2,000 rep points! I'm gonna be so proud to be the guy to get you over 2,000 the way I got you over 1,000.

Thanks you know what the rankings were each year? A strip sack is, very simply, a lost fumble. I think Taylor had 2 this year. I guarantee that's not the most in the NFL. It's probably more like average, if not better. But despite the fact that you are being kind of sarcastic and mean, thank you for very much proving my point: There's nothing new to glean from this incredibly flawed and incomplete system. Glad we agree!

There's a certain irony to a guy who basically says "I'm going to prove why all the guys who love Tyrod Taylor because of stats and analytics are wrong. Here are my stats and analytics to prove they're wrong." Especially when the system he's created is so flawed. He puts a sack and an INT on virtually equal footing, which is preposterous. Field position is hugely important. So while sacks and INTs may be close to the same in terms of ending drives. One INT will cripple the TEAM significantly more than one sack. One thing about Taylor was that he was one of the best QBs in the NFL in 3rd and long (8+ yards) situations on pass plays in his 3 years in Buffalo, so it seems the 1st or 2nd down sack wasn't actually the "drive-killer" this guy describes them as. Also I guarantee his Yards Per Pass Play is inaccurate because it factors in sack yards lost, but not scramble yards gained. If he factored in those scramble yards gained (he was right around 8 yards per scramble over his 3 years in Buffalo) then his whole perspective on this Yards Per Pass Play, which is a central component of his argument, would naturally shift. This is terrible cherry picking and over compensation on this guy's part. And not that I remotely wanted this thread bumped in any way, but shouldn't this be merged here?

I actually made a suggestion regarding this:

Yes, you're clearly more slowly coming to reality as it relates to Allen than Peterman, though. While I am much lower on Peterman than you and you are much lower on Allen, it's pretty clear that Allen's chances of winning the starting QB job for Week 1 are significantly greater than 10%. It seems to me like typical Thurm setting up something to complain about when Allen inevitably takes some rookie lumps. Peterman ain't starting--at least for more than a few regular season games--unless he seriously and significantly improved his arm... and yes, I saw your thread. Skeptical, to say the least.

But how good does the situation need to be? He'll have an excellent group of RBs, I'd argue highly capable TEs because we all know Clay is very good, I think O'leary is really good and Logan Thomas could be special. WRs I'd argue are largely dependent on a healthy Benjamin, But if he's healthy, they're better than they have been for 2 years because I'm confident at least 2 of the Jones / Reilly / Streater / Kerley / Proehl / Dupree / Clay / Holmes / Ray Ray / Phillips will really step up (I think this might be even more fun as a TC battle to watch than QB) and our WRs improve a good bit. The concerns are the OL. But we didn't have Glenn last year... I don't even know why we really consider him a loss. Dawkins did fine in his place... he should improve. Mills was generally okay last year. That leaves a combination of Bodine /Ducasse/ Groy /Miller essentially on our interior. I actually think there's a good chance that young group is an upgrade rather than a downgrade from last year. I think it's all on Allen. The team is strong enough that he can start. But we're going to see.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000930597/article/kirk-cousins-saquon-barkley-among-10-best-new-additions 10 best new additions RANK 9 Josh Allen, QB, Bills Old team: Wyoming. The seventh overall pick in the draft has tremendous upside and the arm to throw through the elements in Buffalo. When ranking Allen here, I'm looking more at the coaching staff and how they're going to set Allen up to succeed. The rookie has a legit chance to be the first starter of any quarterback in this draft class, and he could turn this franchise around for the long term. But he'll need to be put in the right situations and learn quickly.

Yep, I think McDermott (and Beane) want Allen to earn it. Hell look at what Beane said to Matthew Fairburn of The Athletic regarding the "plan" with Allen: https://theathletic.com/396875/2018/06/18/bills-gm-brandon-beane-josh-allen-quarterbacks/ I can tell you it is not predetermined that he will play ‘X’ number of games. He could play zero or he could play 16 and that’s as real as it is. We have to be fair to the team, so we want to put the guy out there who gives us the best chance to win each Sunday. It doesn’t mean it will play out that way, but we have to make the best decision to do that. So I’m not worried about it. Every team plays their guy when it fits them. That’s our thing. Let’s just follow our plan and give everybody the amount of reps that they need to prove what they can do and let the cream rise to the top. If he plays zero games, then they weren’t meant to be played by him this year. If he plays 16, then that was the plan for us and we’ll see how it went and approach next year. In other words, the plan is for Allen to earn the #1 starting QB job this Summer, but if he doesn't, McCarron or Peterman will earn it and be just fine as momentary stopgaps until Allen is ready, which McBeane still hopes will be sooner rather than later.

I see you're slowly coming around to reality as you're subtly increasing Allen's chances. That's good. You're adjusting. Bravo! Now bump Allen's chances up at least 20% and we can take you a little more serious with these odds. Now that OTAs and Minicamp are done, I'll adjust what I believe are the odds, too. Allen- 52% McCarron- 28% Peterman- 20%

I think the team is largely already rallying behind Allen and his "distinctly 3rd" is largely symbolic, nothing more. I said before OTAs I thought him starting as 3rd string was purely symbolic and that Allen would start getting 1st team reps by minicamp, which he did. Yes, McDermott has said he's going into TC as 3rd, still... but let's see if that lasts more than a few days because the more prolonged this QB competition is (and right now, it's pretty obviously just that), I'd say the odds go up for Allen. Plus, I think if Peterman starts the year especially in Baltimore against that Defense... he might have some deja vu back to the Chargers game, and I'm sure the Ravens would be looking at Peterman's NFL tape and seeing that when he throws, you can jump routes easy, because when he throws, it looks something like this:

I know that soon after Allen was drafted, he was projected by Vegas to start more games his rookie season than any of the other rookies. I think the projection was 10... Also... https://buffalowdown.com/2018/06/18/buffalo-bills-3-reasons-josh-allen-will-start-week-1/amp/ Buffalo Bills: 3 reasons why Josh Allen will start Week 1 1. Peterman’s minicamp success is fool’s gold Admittedly, I was one of the early adopters of the Nathan Peterman bandwagon. I bought in that his strong collegiate numbers at Pitt, cerebral nature (fact: he has an MBA) and hardworking attitude would be an ideal fit for the Bills. Heck, he even beat Deshaun Watson’s powerful Clemson team with a glorious five touchdown, zero interception performance. Upon falling to the Bills as a fifth round steal, the rookie showed flashes of promise in both training camp and preseason. It was only a matter of time that he would supplant ultra-conservative incumbent Tyrod Taylor as the team’s quarterback. Well, we all know what happened Week 11 at the StubHub Center in Carson, CA. ... The concern is that Peterman has shown, albeit in a small sample size, a level of discomfort in game-time situations that is unbecoming of any legitimate starting NFL quarterback. From a historically awful five interception game, to clumsily leaving himself susceptible to a concussion with only one healthy quarterback behind him on the depth chart, to looking like a deer in the headlights when being pressed into action for the team’s first playoff game in 18 years. Peterman has looked shook.