transplantbillsfan

Wow, those stats are incomplete, misleading and inconclusive. They're also incorrect; 2015 was 12 games played with Taylor, not 14. And Taylor targeted Sammy 91 times in those 12 games. That's 7.6 targets per game, and you'll notice the 2 games with the lowest targets include the very first game they ever played and a game in which Sammy got injured halfway through the 1st quarter after having already been targeted twice. And I mentioned the opportunity to develop some trust with an Elite WR. 1st 6 games with Taylor in 2015- 5.7 Targets per game Last 6 games with Taylor in 2015- 9.5 Targets per game https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00/gamelog/2015/ Considering how little Buffalo threw the ball during Taylor's tenure, nearly 10 targets per game is significant. Julio Jones and AJ Green averaged 10 targets per game once or twice so far in their careers and both of their teams threw more than Buffalo. And if you really want to use Sammy's 2016 targets as part of this argument, you can, but I think most objective observers would have seen that Sammy was a shell of himself until maybe the end of the season. But even looking at the season as Sammy gets healthy, there's a significant difference as Taylor's last game ever throwing to Sammy was in the double digits for targets. I completely understand why we moved on from Taylor and I'm excited to see what Allen can do. But Taylor is, at the moment, set up with weapons that can potentially really elevate his game in Cleveland this year.

Here. These are the progressive observations of Joe Buscaglia from OTAs to Minicamp in terms of plays made and/or relatively extensive discussion of level of play for the 5 WRs we're talking about. These are from his "7 observations" notes he always puts up. OTAs Week 1 7) Two unheralded WRs stand out a pair of receivers that stood out to me on Thursday was Malachi Dupre and Quan Bray. Dupre might be the name you recognize more, seeing as how he was on the Bills practice squad for most of 2017, and then called up near the end of the season. Dupre rotated in with the first-team offense quite a bit, and his speed and route running is natural to see on the field. I'm quite interested to see how he does with such a clear opportunity. Bray was a bit of a surprise for me. Admittedly, I did not know much about him heading into the OTAs, but he took advantage of his opportunities as the second-team offense slot receiver, consistently gaining separation and finding the weak areas over the middle of the field. There's still a long time to go between now and the time when the 53-man rosters are due, but of all the unknowns today on the field, he caught my eye the most of anyone. OTAs Week 2 7) Potential punt returners identified I saw four players -- all of which wide receivers -- take turns fielding punts. The group included Kaelin Clay, Austin Proehl, Jeremy Kerley, and Ray-Ray McCloud. Of the four, I might give the edge to McCloud at this point because he was the earliest drafted by this regime, and we've seen him have the ability while at Clemson. Still, this is a wide-open competition as training camp opens up in late July. OTAs Week 3 7) Undrafted wideout showing some progress So far Malachi Dupre has done a great job with some extended opportunities on the first-team offense, but a hamstring injury kept him on the sidelines on Thursday. That has allowed more reps to other players, and one that caught my eye for all the right reasons on Thursday was undrafted rookie Robert Foster. Now it helps his case early on for the 6-foot-2, 196-pound Foster that he spent all last year at Alabama with current Bills offensive coordinator Brian Daboll. However, he's showing off a polished ability to run routes and is getting some opportunity with both the first and second-team offense in spots. While it's early yet and spring workouts have been known to fool people, especially at wide receiver, you can see the coaching staff starting to form some trust with Foster. As is always the case with wide receivers, you never honestly get a gauge on them until the pads go on in training camp and things get a bit more physical. It's been a solid start for Foster, though. Minicamp Day 1 3) Bills give more significant workload to Robert Foster Last week I wrote about Robert Foster as a potential under-the-radar type to keep an eye on at wide receiver, and he was working in more and more with the top two units during Tuesday's practice. Now, there are some injuries that the Bills are dealing with at wide receiver at the current moment, but Foster has also been getting that time with the top unit ahead of the likes of some receivers that are perceived to have a better shot at making the roster -- namely, Rod Streater. With the extended time, Foster made some mistakes along the way. He dropped a couple of passes that needed to be caught -- one of which was a perfect throw from Nathan Peterman on an out route in which the receiver roasted the cornerback. He also fell on a route that the quarterback targeted for a potential first-down pickup. Even though he didn't have his best on Tuesday, the Bills are happy with what he's done to this point considering who he played ahead of to start minicamp. 7) Ray-Ray McCloud shows some zip, but also shows some rookieThe wide receiver group has continued to be one of the more compelling things to track this spring because everything is still up in the air. It's given some opportunities to players like Robert Foster, and also allowed one of their rookie wideouts to get some key on-the-job experience this summer. To this point, between the wide receiver draft picks Ray-Ray McCloud and Austin Proehl, I've been most impressed with McCloud. He's gotten some reps as a punt returner and shows some natural acceleration in and out of his breaks during route running. McCloud is a bit on the smaller side, but he's intriguing enough for them to think there could be something there to build on. Minicamp Day 2 2) Peterman outplays McCarron once again He gunned in a touchdown to Austin Proehl in the back of the end zone, and had a pretty pass that he dropped into a bucket on a deep pass to Robert Foster. 4) Proehl flashes ability So far a mini-battle has ensued between the two receivers the Bills selected, McCloud and Proehl, because of their similar builds. McCloud has had the upper hand for most of the workouts we've seen, but Proehl's route running and ability to finish a play made some waves at practice. Proehl first displayed his solid footwork during rookie minicamp, but he's faded to the background a bit since -- that is until Wednesday rolled around. Proehl's toe-tapping touchdown was incredibly impressive, considering his room for error was slim. The throw was one that he had to go up for, and his body positioning made it seem like he'd have to make an impressive play to get his feet in bounds. He secured the catch, and when he came down with the ball, planted his one foot so he could gather his other one well enough to drag it through the end zone. Those are the types of plays that get you noticed in practices like these. 7) A two-man kick return battle? While the Bills have been using four players to return punts through out the spring workouts, we haven't seen much regarding kick return. That changed on Wednesday, and despite having players like Kaelin Clay and Ray-Ray McCloud, the Bills had only two players back returning kicks: running backs Taiwan Jones and Travaris Cadet. Those two players are likely in a battle for one roster spot this summer, and a big piece of the equation will be if one can outplay the other with that role. As for Clay and McCloud, they were on the kick return team, only as the next line up from the primary return men. For now, it's a two-man show. Minicamp Day 3 1) Allen ends it on a high note Rookie wide receiver Austin Proehl, who Allen has developed severe chemistry with this spring, hit the right seam hard and Allen spotted him immediately. Allen put the ball on the money and in stride about 20-to-25 yards down the field, and there was enough distance between Proehl and the safety -- and of course, the cornerback that he beat -- for him to scoot up the field for all 70 yards and into the end zone. 6) Don't take too much out of the WR rotations -- except for two things Throughout all six practices that the media was able to see, there is only one way to describe the wide receiver rotation: helter-skelter. Every single receiver on the roster, at least at some point, worked with the first, second, and third-team offense to maximize opportunities, and so the coaches could see who could play in different situations. It's always easier to highlight the younger players because they are, the flashier ones, but just like Austin Proehl, Brandon Reilly, Malachi Dupre, and Robert Foster got time with the first-team, so did Rod Streater, Kaelin Clay, and Andre Holmes. The Bills were just on a fact-finding mission this spring without Zay Jones available to practice. The only two constants, Kelvin Benjamin is locked in as a starter on the outside, and it appeared Jeremy Kerley had a pretty firm grasp on the first-team work as the slot receiver. Other than that, everything was up for grabs -- and it'll be interesting to see how they handle it once Zay Jones can practice in full. Just note the lack of Reilly and the progression of Proehl, McCloud and Foster in that discussion. You're crazy if you think Dupre and Reilly have that much of a leg up on those guys at this point.

One thing objective Bills fans should have learned is that when Taylor develops trust in an Elite talent at WR, he's going to throw him the ball even if he's covered. That was what developed with Sammy... problem was Sammy couldn't stay on the field. Now he has both Gordon and Landry. Trading Tyrod wad a good move for us because it was clear we weren't going to build around him, but luckily for Taylor, it looks like he was traded to a team that's built for him. I see the same haters are at it in this thread.

As much as others are probably tearing you apart--I haven't read a single post--yeah, I could see this being the year. Sounds like there's trouble brewing in Paradise and the Bills are on the upswing, making the playoffs last year. I actually expect double digit wins and playoffs from the Bills this year. We'll see what happens with turmoil in New England, but this might be the year.

I'm disappointed this is how you felt you needed to respond. If you felt offended, I guess I understand the reason, and I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend you. I respect you as a poster and a mod. What I made was a pretty objective observation without the harsh, inflammatory language or euphemisms that flood this board and escalate spats.

What reports are you reading? Dupre was receiving some praise in OTAs, almost none in Minicamp. There was reportedly some kind of injury around the end of OTAs, so maybe he just didn't get much work in Minicamp. About the only mention you hear of Reilly is that he got 1st team reps, but you also heard that most of the other WRs were rotated in with the 1st team, but KB and Kerley are entrenched there. By the end of OTAs and into Minicamp, you hear a lot more of Ray Ray, Proehl, and Foster making an impact. If you're considering Dupre and Reilly favorites simply because they're 2nd year guys, despite seeing very very very little action as rookies, Foster probably evens out and cancels that advantage having worked under Dabol last year at Alabama.

I've been reading every OTA and Minicamp practice report from the media. Ray Ray and Proehl have been covered significantly more as making plays than Reilly or Dupree.

Well this sounds like an appropriate post It's rather odd you chose this analogy. Do you have issues of your own? As to the point and disregarding your absurd analogy, how far exactly does Allen have to go? How much further ahead are Peterman and McCarron from where he is right now? Regardless of whatever progression Allen needs, what makes you think his progression will be better served on the bench than on the field? I won't post the quotes or links again, but Allen's OC Brent Vigen (who also coached Carson Wentz) raved about Allen's progression in college and his ability to immediately step into the NFL and execute an NFL offense. Our GM Beane essentially shot down the national narrative that Allen is (too) raw in a post draft interview with Buffalo News. He's also getting plenty of praise from teammates so far, including Shady, who's likely about the most bluntly honest player on our team. Allen might be ready to start. That'll be determined this Summer. If he is and is better than Peterman and McCarron, I want him starting.

It doesn't take a lot to do it, but I think we'll be better than last year just with a healthy Benjamin at WR alone.

I'm going to use this as an opportunity to make an quick observation about the state of the board and our times in general. Posters on this message board (and in society in general) aren't willing to look past headlines if they aren't happy with them or disagree with what they think they say. It's happening plenty in this thread and here's a good example of it. You didn't have to go look for that scouting report on Proehl. I posted it and copied and pasted the excerpt you posted and more.

I think that's what everyone hopes, including McDermott who had to play some role in trading up to get him last year.

Changed it to most significant I write titles after the post itself, so if it's a longer post sometimes I'll use a word that would be better as another word because by that time, I'm just done. Forget overlooked, I meant significant.

It's not like McBeane view Dupre or Reilly as sure things considering their lack of regular season action last year. Gotta believe Ray Ray and Proehl were BPA so late in the draft. And thus far it sounds like both of the latter are outperforming both of the former.

I would like to see him make the team, but I think we're hearing more good things about Ray Ray and Proehl so far. I fear Reilly might just be another preseason all star for us we somehow let get away who finds success with the Patriots.

May???? You actually think Summer starts in May????

Gee, I see threads that directly address our WR corps where the last posts were May 20th, March 29th, April 29th, and May 25th. Soooooo... you have a basic understanding of when Summer actually is, right? I think the fact that nearly a month and a half separates the last post of those threads and the start of this thread makes your stupid condescending remark unnecessary. You found one thread with its last post on June 21st. That's the first day of Summer, just to let you know. It was over 2 weeks ago. How are threads made about other WRs on other teams directly discussing our WR corps. I see how a thread about Emmanuel Sanders, Demariyus Thomas, Julio Jones, etc. could evolve into a discussion about the state of our own WR corps, but they don't directly address it. You should do yourself a favor and just ignore me because your crusade against me is blinding you.

1000, huh? Give me a link to two. Hell, give me a link to one. I went through the 1st 3 pages of the forum before posting this, as per protocol, and I didn't see a thread topic directly addressing our WR corps. Are you confusing QB and WR?

Changed the title just for you fellas

I'll say right off the bat that I think our WR corps on opening day in Baltimore is Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones, Jeremy Kerley, Rod Streater, Ray Ray Mcleod and Austin Proehl. (I hope Brandon Reilly finds his way on that list and I think Foster has a really good chance to make the team or at least get on the PS) But truthfully, how much is our WR Corps actually settled right now??? Kelvin Benjamin. That's all we absolutely know, for sure, right? So, we're left with about a dozen other guys battling it out for 4-6 spots, depending on how many McDermott wants to keep. Who makes it? We still have Andre Holmes and signed Jeremy Kerley, but how interested are we really in them? I don't even think Holmes makes the team. Kerley might. But aren't we intrigued by the young guys???? Rod Streater is my exception here, he's not young, but looked damn good last offseason. Perhaps he's ready to burst into the league? Kaelin Clay and Quan Bray just seem like journeymen already, don't they? Zay Jones just HAS to be a helluva lotta better than he was last year, right? We traded up for him in the 2nd round last year!!! Not to be taken lightly... Then you're left with... Malachi Dupree (clear team investment) http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/malachi-dupre?id=2558095 Strengths Has desired size and athletic ability. Experienced at multiple receiver spots. More talented than production would dictate. Tracks the deep throws like an outfielder and can adjust catch positioning without taking his eye off the ball. Consistently solid catch rate throughout his career. Adjusts to low throws and balls behind him to make the catch. Looks to turn it up the field quickly after the catch. Dips low and drives through cornerbacks while stretching for additional yardage. Small sample size during freshman season gave hints of his downfield potential. Weaknesses Lacks upfield juice into his routes. Vertical push doesn't appear to threaten cornerbacks. Needs to play faster off the snap. Slow to sink and open on curls. Needs a greater commitment to nuances of route-running in order to improve his separation. Tends to tip his hand early allowing cornerbacks to match his patterns. Stalk-blocker with marginal aggression and sustain after initial contact Robert Foster (played under Dabol) http://draftanalyst.com/robert-foster Pos: Underrated receiver who was never a big part of the Alabama offense. Fights with his hands to separate from defenders, tracks the pass in the air and works to make receptions away from his frame. Gives effort as a downfield blocker and gets positive results. Quickly releases off the line of scrimmage and immediately gets to top speed. Neg: Does not play to his 40 time or judge deep passes well. Marginally productive. Analysis: Foster has the size and speed to line up as a third receiver but needs work on his overall game. He must learn to play to his 40 time and become much more productive to have a career at the next level. Brandon Reilly (fan favorite and BEAST last preseason) http://draftanalyst.com/brandon-reilly Analysis: Reilly is a solid athlete with upside but a prospect who must improve his hands and consistency Pos: Marginally productive college receiver with solid size/speed numbers. Displays terrific focus and concentration and fights to come away with the contested pass. Uses his frame to shield defenders, extends his hands to offer the quarterback a target and keeps the play in bounds running after the catch. Effective blocker in the short and long field. Neg: Lacks naturally soft hands and double-catches throws or outright drops them. Lacks deep speed and cannot run to the long throw. . Ray Ray Mcleod http://draftanalyst.com/ray-ray-mccloud Pos: Smallish receiver whose greatest value at the next level may be as a return specialist. Displays quickness, uses the sidelines well and creates yardage when the ball is in his hands. Runs sharp pass routes, fires into breaks and separates from defenders. Extends his hands to make receptions away from his frame, fights to come away with tough receptions and effectively creates yardage after the catch. Easily makes receptions at full speed and looks the ball into his hands. Neg: Lazily comes off the line on occasion. Struggles in battles. Must improve his ball security. Analysis: McCloud is a creative skill player who can be used in the slot, but his bread and butter will be special teams. Austin Proehl http://draftanalyst.com/austin-proehl Pos: Small but incredibly quick receiver who plays much faster than his 40 time. Fluidly releases off the line of scrimmage, sells routes and can turn it on in a single step. Displays a deep burst, easily makes receptions in stride down the field and displays focus and concentration. Comes back to the ball, adjusts to errant throws and consistently snatches passes away from his frame. Possesses quick, strong hands. Neg: Small and struggles in battles. Lacks true deep speed and a second gear. Marginally productive returning punts. Analysis: Proehl has size limitations but is a natural receiver with outstanding quickness and the ability to separate from defenders. He offers potential as a slot receiver and return specialist if healthy. Cam Phillips http://draftanalyst.com/cameron-phillips Analysis: Phillips was reliable at the college level but lacks the size, speed and natural pass-catching skill to be anything other than the last man on the depth chart. Pos: Productive receiver with average upside for the next level. Quickly settles into the open spot of the defense, tracks the pass in the air and displays terrific hand-eye coordination. Extends his hands and looks the pass in. Keeps plays in bounds and works to pick up positive yardage. Runs solid routes, stays low out of breaks and separates from defenders. Neg: Not quick releasing off the line of scrimmage, plays to one speed and lacks downfield burst. Does not snatch the ball cleanly away from his frame. Not much of a threat after the catch.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000939509/article/ranking-divisions-by-quarterback-nfc-north-nfc-west-top-list For the sake of this exercise, I'm going to lift up the division by projecting that Allen and Darnold will play sooner than later. In fact, I give both a chance to start in Week 1. Especially Allen. I don't want to hear about AJ McCarron. And spare me the Nathan Peterman nonsense. The Bills smartly traded up for Allen because he's the next Carson Wentz and oozes talent. I believe in Darnold, too. I hope he wins the Jets' job. Meanwhile, Tom Brady is the greatest of all time. And Tannehill is a guy.

This isn't necessarily an argument of what should happen (although that's kind of built into the discussion), but an argument of what will most likely happen. And relating to that and disregarding whatever tangential argument of what model we should follow, you chose 2 QBs who started week #1. The other guys who didn't start week include 1 QB who had a vet QB with tons of experience in the regular season/postseason/Super Bowl/pro bowl in front of him, and one QB who sat behind a vet with like 5 career starts over a 7 year career, which looks familiar, and it's worth noting that while that rookie may not have started week 1, he was inserted in week 2 and started week 3. Talk about a quick autocorrect. Same thing happened last year with Trubisky and Watson. I think you're focused too much on what you believe we should do rather than what is simply most likely to happen. And right or wrong (I guess we can debate that, too, though that's based completely on opinion), Allen's chances of starting are way way way higher than the crazy 5% number you threw out there. Very simple question to end this post: if Allen is the hands-down winner of the QB competition this Summer--meaning he's the best QB and everyone can see it--do you actually think he (and the team) is best served on the bench as we start the season?

You're right. Nothing has changed. Allen's odds are still about the same as they were, though the fact that he probably exceeded performance expectations in OTAs and Minicamp have probably increased his chances a bit. The other thing not changing is you're still stubbornly refusing to concede that his odds are significantly higher than the 5% chance you initially claimed he had.

Fans are the ones with this "protectionist mentality." Luckily, that's really not generally how coaches think. The best QB over the Summer will be the guy who starts. With very few exceptions, that's how it's always been.

Link?

Good for you. Fortunate timing on your part to change your mind. I wanted Mayfield and Darnold, too. And even though I was talking Mayfield up the most before the draft, Darnold was the guy I had my heart set on. Mayfield was the sexy girl with the tramp stamp new to town who flirted with me in HR every day. Darnold was the cute girl who was my lab partner for a couple years and let me take her out for coffee a few times. Allen is the arranged marriage my parents' forced upon me against my wishes immediately graduating HS, but luckily she brought beer, is attractive, and has the same sense of humor. I don't know if she's any good in the sack, yet. Rosen was the girl I wanted my parents to choose, since I wasn't allowed to choose, but right after I found out My parents chose Allen and I asked why, they told me it was because Rosen has syphilis and gonorrhea. And I saw Rosen walk into the free clinic the other day, too. Parents know best.