Drunken Pygmy Goat

First, let me say that I liked the pick, and based on what we've seen so far, I have a good feeling about Allen developing into a long term starter in the NFL. But...I do believe he has a lot of work to do in order to be considered a true "franchise QB". His decision making at times was poor and throws were way late (common for a rookie, sometimes he made up for it with a strong arm), his accuracy at times was poor, footwork at times was poor (leading to inaccurate throws), touch needed work, etc. I did notice improvement in those areas later in the season, but still needs work and to show consistency in those areas. And while the line had its problems, IMO pass blocking was actually average. However, there were many 2nd/3rd and longs as a result of poor run blocking, making things that much more difficult on the rookie. The WR/TE positions weren't exactly loaded either...falling back on the "poor O-line, poor WRs" line shouldn't be used as a way to vindicate poor play from Josh, but it should at least factor in to an assessment of him in some way. Those were true variables in his play, but I think many fans are putting too much emphasis on that. I get why optimism seems to be through the roof about Allen for many fans. There's a lot to like about him. His personality seems humbled yet fitting for a town like Buffalo, his demeanor on the field screams "winner" (very "Brady-esque"), and of course, he has a cannon, pretty important when throwing in windy New Era. But his stock with fans really elevated in 3 seperate games IMO. First was the Vikings game. The Bills covered outright the largest spread in years, partly due to play from Allen. His fake screen TD pass to Croom, the Superman TD dive at the pylon after a scramble, and (most of all) hurdling Anthony Barr to gain a first down all catapulted Allen into a fan favorite position, even for many of the detractors. He is the young, rookie QB after all; we want to have reasons for optimism and excitement. Those last two plays elevated Josh to a bit of a superhero status among Bills fans, with plenty of hurdle memes going around... The second was the Jaguars game. It was his first game back from injury IIRC, just in time to stick it to Ramsey. Aside from an all around decent performance, he made a great throw from the pocket, with two defenders sandwiching him, on a deep TD pass to Foster. It was the kind of play that we envisioned from him when he was drafted. And there were a couple more nice runs from him, one went for like 50 yards, and another was a TD that included a nasty stiff arm to a LB. The third was week 17. Aside from a pick 6 into double coverage, it was a very good game from Josh. 5 total TDs, 3 passing, a real nice scramble for a TD blowout win. It was kind of a culmination of the year one progression we witnessed from Josh post injury. There were also several other flashes as well. There was a great TD pass to Zay in the back of the endzone at Miami, and one of his best throws I thought came on the play he was injured at Houston. Ending the season on such a high note, combined with reasons for optimism and likeability, has rolled itself into perhaps too much kool aide drinking. Maybe some fans are getting a bit ahead of themselves when it comes to Josh Allen. He has a long way to go, yet a lot of people speak as if they have seen all that they needed to see in order to "know". Truth is, we haven't...far from it actually. Its a lot of hype IMO, much of which he hasn't lived up to yet, but most would agree that, based on what we've seen and know, he has the potential to do so. Who am I to tell people what to think? We're pretty starved as Bills fans for something like this. A young, exciting QB is exactly what we've lacked for 20 years, and now we have one that just might be something special. We've been built up at times in the past, only to be let down, but now, we have this shiny new toy, with a coaching staff and front office that appears, at the very least, to be competent and calculated. The extreme Allen praise and predictions may be premature, but we should all have at least some level of encouragement about how this will turn out. Things are looking up, now we need to see things grow from here.

So did 90% of this forum

It says that he is healthy. He should be beating 2nd round rookies. He's beaten proven players in the NFL, rookie should be a cake walk.

Bold prediction: Josh Allen will finish with less than 1,000 passing yards this season. I want my picture on page 1 now!

I don't think that predicting Ford won't start week 1 is a stretch. I like the pick, but Nsekhe probably has a leg up in the competition just based on experience alone. We all want Ford to win the competition at RT and start, and I think most fans assume he will, but Brown was asked for a bold prediction and he gave one.

I'll take the under, and say he finishes with a very respectable 7. Hughes on the other hand should benefit from the interior havoc and collect double digits.

Might be his last as a Bill, but I think he still has another year or two in him after this season.

Yeah, but disregard the fact that RoR had to leave Buffalo to do it, though...

I think we're saying the same thing differently. He certainly hasn't had an injury riddled career like some WRs the Bills have had in the past (Watkins, Goodwin, etc.), but injuries and health issues worth noting, I suppose. Playing WR usually leads to some injuries over time, including concussions (maybe more so than all other positions). Its definitely something to keep an eye on, but at least the concerns with him aren't production or character/effort based. I wasn't trying to twist your words at all, and I didn't assume you were claming him to be frail or anything. Just saying that we should be in good shape if that's the biggest concern with him.

He's missed 8 out of 80 games. If durability is the biggest concern, we should be ok.

Not the first time that the words "tampering" and "Patriots" were used in the same sentence.

Yeah, and during the K-Gun years, fans would boo an injured opponent, whether or not it was legit or a stunt to slow the pace.

Floor for SF is 8 wins IMO. Last season was severely derailed by injuries, and I believe their record has given general football fans a false sense of the team. Seattle is on the downswing, Cards are the Cards, LA is the favorite (possibly with a very small window though). Watch out for Deebo Samuel. Offensive rookie of the year candidate.

Well hell ?bring in the next guy I guess

SF is and was my "2nd" team behind the Bills since I became a fan of football, and there's absolutely NO WAY that Young should be considered top 5 all time, and that's disregarding championships. Comparing Young and the 49ers to Rogers and the Packers is way off IMO. The Bucs thought Young was a dud and traded him away for a couple of picks (TB was banking on Testeverde in the draft...). Montana was entering the twilight and injuries had hampered him considerably. The only comparison is in their ability to scramble, and Young was much better. Rodgers was drafted to be the heir apparent to the aging Favre and sat for a while. I'm not old enough to have watched Fouts play, but I will say that Rivers is probably one if the most underrated QBs ever. His attitude may have had a negative effect on his career early on.

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Since 1999, public funding has accounted for roughly half of all NFL stadium projects that weren't 100% privately funded, with each project varying in public dollar amounts. It seems that when it comes to Bills stadium talk, the loudest people are the ones that haven't researched the facts on the matter. They just assume "new stadium, higher taxes for WNYers, rabble rabble rabble". In reality, WNYers specifically will not likely see any significant finacial "burden". Kirby is right. It is inevitable, be it a new stadium or a retrofit. What's hard to predict is which option would be best or most logical, for different reasons. A stadium downtown would obviously cost much more, especially with infrastructure factored in, but the Pegulas already have a lot of money invested in that area, and a stadium there could boost profits for those entities. A retrofit in OP doesn't provide that kind of surrounding finacial benefit to the Pegulas, but there's very little if any infrastructure costs needed there, and the state has already pumped money into NEF a couple times over the last 10 years. A retrofit would cost much less in total than a new building downtown, which the politicians in Albany would greatly prefer. The NFL could also kick in more matching money via the G4 program in its current stipulations for a retrofit. Also, the Bills have just opened a very expensive training facility there. How would that factor into the downtown stadium decision?

Perfect!

IMO, a refurbished New Era Field is the "same" as a "new" stadium, in principle. Goodell and the league don't necessarily want a new stadium, they just want a stadium with more revenue. Just spitting thoughts here, but I've done a TON of research on the matter in several aspects, ever since stadium talks arose after the Bills were purchased from RWJ. Long post if you care to read... Away teams get a cut of ticket sales, and with a better stadium, the Bills can facilitate charging more money for better amenities. Granted, for the most part, Bills fans don't care for all kinds of bells and whistles, but upgrades would be welcomed. That, and I think the majority of Bills fans want the Bills to stay in OP. Goodell gets a ton of flack, but IMO, he has done a good job as commissioner. That said, there are always agendas. His job is to "cater" to the the owners, and maximize league revenue. Since becoming commissioner, league revenue has increased greatly and annually, and currently is around $14 billion. Without looking again, it was around $6 or $7 billion when he was hireud. Inflation is a factor, but NFL revenue has far exceeded the inflation factor. When the Pegulas were voted in as owners, one of the consensuses among owners was that they would build a new stadium. But it's not necessarily a "new" stadium that the other 31 owners want. They want more contribution from the Bills to the league pie, and if Goodell's job depends on increasing leage revenue annually, then so does he. It could come in the form of a new stadium, or in the form of a refurbished stadium. The Chiefs, Bears, and Packers have all made significant alterations to their stadiums within the last 15 years that have increased revenue, by updating to current "league standards", and there's no reason why the Bills couldn't do the same. A recent study was conducted, which determined that the bones of NEF are structurally sound enough to support another 30 years of productivity. The Georgia Dome, for example, opened in 1992 and was demolished 25 years later. Granted, the dynamics between Buffalo and Atlanta economically aren't equal, but modern technology is much, much different than it was when the Georgia dome broke ground in 1989, and an open air stadium in much worse weather conditions has survived much longer than that domed building...refurbishing NEF to "league standard" can be done, and probably should be done. That's not to say a downtown/waterfront stadium couldn't be done, but the project would be much more difficult of an undertaking for several reasons. First, you have infrastructure issues that would need to be addressed, and funded. Regardless of ownership contribution toward a new stadium/dome, addressing the necessary infrastructure issues in and around the surrounding area would cost millions upon millions of dollars that would need to be spent by the state for a refurbished stadium. Goodell may have a certain agenda, but so do the politicians in Albany...IMO, it's highly unlikely that the money generated for the local and state economy from Bills games over the next 30 years will surpass what it would cost in order to provide proper infrastructure changes that would be needed. Stocks and bonds will (likely) need to be involved in order to help fund a new stadium alone, but who will pay for the surrounding infrastricure needs??? The citizens of New York, most of which, couldn't care less about the Bills, many of which, don't care about football or the NFL in general. Again, agendas come into play, and votes... Inflation, and the cost to build will be a factor. Bills fans, by and large, don't care about all the bells and whistles that make places like Jerry World so special, nor can the vast majority afford them. That's part of why there are studies being conducted currently regarding "feasibility". The Pegulas have invested a ton of their money into Buffalo, in various ways, enough to know what the current economy can facilitate, and they know what the people want and care about, and what they can afford. But as business men and women, they, too have certain agendas and preferences that they'd like to accomplish. They know and understand their position, when it comes to the league, as well as the people that support this franchise. They figured out a lot the hard way with Sabres, who they have owned for a longer period of time. But that endeavor represents their infancy within the community, and within their learning curve of the fans and the community. I can assure you that they have a pretty good grasp on things at this point, and based on that, have certain preferences and ideas of what is most logical for all parties. Their decision will be largely based on that, and results from studies being conducted now will mainly serve as reasurance to the league that they're going to do the "right thing". They know the "pulse" of the fans, and as a business, they will do what they feel is the best, long term, to accomodate that. In the end, Goodell works for them too, just as he does the other 31 owners. IMO, a big part of why Goodell makes the comments that he does is based on the fact that the current CBA will expire soon, and revisions will be made for the next CBA. It's not simply just pressure from other owners, although they, too, fully understand the ramifications of a new CBA and how that could effect the Bills' plans. A big part of the league's increased revenue has come from sponsorship, but at some point, that increase will level out or plateau a bit. Maximizing revenue will need to come in other forms, and ticket sales contributions matters. Right now, the Bills are bottom 3 in terms of league contribution in that category, and you can bet that that irks opposing teams' owners when they play at Buffalo. The current G4 program allows for a cetain amount of league funding (taken from the league pie), to be allocated to stadium project fundung. It is greater than the previous G3 program that was enacted within the previous CBA, and is different in maximum dollar amount allowed for new stadiums, and refurbished stadiums ($50 million in difference IIRC). With the current CBA set to expire in the near future, putting pressure on the Bills now (starting at the time the Pegulas bought the Bills) is important. A new CBA could mean different things regarding league funding: A. the possiblity that a revised G4 program (G5???) would allow for more cut of the league pie to be allocated for stadium projects, since revenue is increasing annually (which would piss off owners if the Bills waited for that), or B. no G4 type progtam to be included at all, making stadium projects less possible due to blow-back from local citizens and politicians, because more state funding would be necessary. Most teams already have stadiums that are in line with what the owners want, and the Bills represent a very small minority of teams that don't yet. Getting a deal in place now is important to the league and the other 31 owners because of this uncertainty. But, the state of New York has already contributed a lot of money into at least 2 projects at NEF since 2014. Building a new stadium after that fact would be a bit of a slap to the face of the politicians in Albany, even if a new stadium would be funded 100% by the Pegulas, because of the cost of surrounding infrastructure. Their agendas should be all but clear at this point: they want the Bills to stay in OP, and have handed over millions of dollars to the Bills already in order to make that point. They know whats feasible to them. Like I said, agendas...The politicians in Albany have been through these things several times before in recent history, be it money to NEF, or the new Yankees Stadium, Javits Center in NYC, etc. Keep in mind, also, that increased taxes for a new stadium, or even a refurbished NEF, may not have as great of an impact on local WNYers as many might think. Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis is a great model, IMO (all things considered, anyways). It uses tax increased dollars from things such as hotels and vehicle rentals, in and around Indianapolis (surrounding counties), in order to pay back state loaned money. Generally, those aren't things that locals have to pay for, and NF sees plenty of tourism and hotel usage... The Pegulas, Goodell and the other 31 owners, and poiliticians all have a certain agenda that their moves are based on, all of which are generally geared towards making the majority happy (and money, of course). I personally believe that refurbishing NEF would be a happy medium that would cater more to the majority. Most of us want that, it wouldn't cost as much for the Pegulas and the state, and revenue can be increased. Win for all.

Ice up, son

The Ryan era was pretty rough looking back on it, but what makes it worse is that we pretty much saw it (the end result) coming. We all knew his past. Year one wasn't so bad, but we could see signs of what was to come...from inviting Rob to practices late in the season, to Clemson helmets at a PC, to "winning the offseason"...he set a lofty expectation with the "get ready because we're going" intro PC, but it was just more talk that followed. Rex may have brought "fun" and attention to Buffalo with sky dives and wrapped trucks and trips to Dave and Busters or bowling alleys with the team, but that kind of fun doesn't equate to success in the NFL. When fans criticize "fluff" stuff regarding McDermott and this staff, regardless of how positive and encouraging it may be, I can't hate on them for it. In the end, results on the field is all that matters, and despite some encouraging things, there have been some pretty glaring issues under McD. Nothing in the disfunction category, like cheerleader lawsuits, HC/GM rifts, sexual misconduct allegations, etc., but things that warrant criticism (ill advised challege flags is probably most glaring). But I do think that we should put everything in perspective when criticizing something or someone. Criticizing the coach for not being more aggressive or proactive/dictating during games, when the roster limits the ability to do so, isn't accurate IMO. Criticizing the coach for questionable coaching hires is warranted, but it's important to remember that the HC is still learning how to do his job, and typically the HCs with several years of experience at the position are typically the ones that get the better assistant coaches, because they generally have a better track record in that role (they have to in order to be a HC for several years). The franchise also plays a role, and the Bills were in disarray when McD was hired. Everyone wanted McCoy (I wonder how that would have turned out), but he passed on the Bills. The fact that McD was able to hire a former HC in Frazier was surprising to me, and also very important for a rookie HC. He may not have been very successful as a HC, but there's no doubt that he has been a pivitol figure for McDermott to learn from on the fly. Some will say that he should be criticized for lack of aggression due to lack of roster, because he is responsible for the roster (and Beane). And while it's tough to argue against, again, perspective is needed. The comparison of McDermott to Anthony Lynn came up earlier in this thread, but they're two totally different situations to compare. Lynn already had a better roster. McDermott had a worse roster with what would have become a tough cap situation. He and Beane chose a different path, but it was one that was necessary in order to bring structure and stability to the team. Based on the moves made im two years, and the results, I think this team is right where it should be, based on the long term plan. Now, it is time, though, to see progress.

Brad Marchand approves

Not arguing your point. I was seriously inquiring because I couldn't think of another coach that was let go by McD after one season. Loyalty is a great trait, but in some cases, it can be a flaw...being too loyal, anyways. At least McDermott has shown (a little bit, I guess) that he understands the business side of football, and that being too loyal can land you in the unemployment line.

The Bills had too many men on the field on defense 3 times last year, which is actually about double the league average and ranks tied for 27th. New England had 3 as well, but they love catching you in the middle of subbing, and were the beneficiary of 3 calls against their opponents, ranking 5th. This site breaks down penalties in multiple aspects. http://www.nflpenalties.com/team/buffalo-bills?year=2018&view=penalties When sorted by "penalty", click the "+" icon to the left of a given penalty and it breaks that penalty down by league average and rank as well as beneficiary amount and rank.

How many one year coaches has he had? I can only think of Dennison.