Kirby Jackson

Agree again!! Bruce was incredible. Prior to this season he was the best Bills player that I ever saw. I think that I have Allen ahead of him now because of positional value but it’s close. Those ‘90’s teams were far and away the most talented teams in the history of the franchise. They, along with those Cowboys teams in the later years of the run, were the most talented teams in the NFL (and by a lot). Wait so you have Kelly over Allen but didn’t see Kelly?!? 😂😂😂 Nevermind, it sounds like you were told some pretty incredible tales of that era. I’m not here to confirm nor deny the existence of the tooth fairy. Merry Christmas!!

With all due respect, the nostalgia of what Kelly’s teams accomplished, is far beyond the quality of Kelly as a player. He’s not in Allen’s league. It’s just not a reasonable opinion, at this point to believe that he’s a superior player. This list is the BEST players at each position in Bills history not THE MOST IMPORTANT (even still an argument could be made that Allen was more important). That’s an important distinction. Let me ask it a little differently, “if prime Kelly and prime Allen were both on this team now, who would start?” What about, “if prime Kelly and prime Allen were both on those early 1990’s teams? Who would start?” When you do it like that there isn’t a logical argument to make for Kelly. He was very good. He was ELITE at operating that system. There’s a guy in the AFCE that is very good and elite at operating his system. It’s not Allen, Rodgers or Maye. I’m not saying that Kelly is Tua. Of course, he’s way better than that but you get the point. There’s a massive difference in guys that you win with vs. guys that you win because of. You won because of Kelly sometimes, like you do Jalen Hurts. Often, the quality of his roster overwhelms teams. It’s extremely rare that the quality of the Bills roster overwhelms teams if Allen isn’t at least very good. Both teams win a lot.

That’s just such a lazy argument. If you drop Allen onto that roster they win 2 or 3 of those 4 (and probably go the Ronnie Harmon year as well). Kelly was the steward of an unbelievable offense. Josh Allen is an unbelievable offense. The gap between them is quite wide.

QB: Allen RB: OJ WR: Reed WR: Moulds WR: Diggs OT: Dawkins OT: Wolford G: Joe D G: Billy Shaw C: Kent Hull TE: Ernie Warlick DE: Bruce DT: Tom Sestak DT: Kyle Williams DE: Schobel OLB: Biscuit MLB: Cowart OLB: Takeo CB: Clements CB: Winfield S: Jones S: Poyer KR: McGee K: Christie P: Moorman ST: Tasker This is based on their Bills careers. Obviously Peters and TO were historically great players. There are some that were tough (CB for example).

Honestly, anyone arguing any other way at this point is just wrong. Jim Kelly would admit that. The gap from Allen to Kelly is wide. Allen, Bruce, Moorman and probably Andre (based on a 3 WR set) should be unanimous. You could make a reasonable argument for multiple people at every other position.

That was a pretty horrendous performance. It’s nice that over the last few years we have had some games that we all hated and the results were still a win. That’s a long way from the moral victories of the 2000’s. Nonetheless it was a pretty pitiful performance. Lots to work on but thankful it still resulted in a W.

Lol, I tweeted almost the exact same thing at the time. As soon as I heard the SEC chant I knew that they were locked in. That Michigan game was telling. He was scared to death. Can’t trust him over the next few games but if the offense plays like that it might not matter.

🗑️

That was someone else’s quote. I’m assuming it’s Miami maybe?

I liked SMU today. I thought IU would get buried. This has been a bit eye opening though. If these games are any indication the “eye test” is going to be more prevalent moving forward. 12 best > 12 most deserving. Alabama would have beaten IU & SMU by 3+ TDs.

I mean, I don’t care but they should probably be combined.

Please show up tonight. Play to win and attack. If the OL holds up the Bucks win by 2 scores.

SMU is my upset of the week. I expected ND to bury IU.

Is this different than the one on the college football page?

Lol, what are we doing here? 😂 They weren’t “better for Josh Allen.” They are playing their roles fine. Let’s not do this. That’s not a rational opinion. If you were to just make it about Gabe an argument could be made (certainly for Coleman). In a down year, Diggs was by 4,000 miles the best receiver of that group regardless of attitude/personality.

I said that the WRs were bottom 3 in the NFl. I don’t necessarily believe that was wrong pre-Amari. In fact, the numbers would probably support it from those 8 games. The numbers in the 6 games with him vs. the 8 games without him are way different. Allen may throw for 4,000 yards without a receiver over 1,000 yards. Shakir is their top producer and he’s 29th in yards. Keon is next and he’s 76th. Keep in mind that is the production with the MVP at QB, arguably the top OC in football, a really good running game and a top 5 OL.

2023 Diggs & Davis combined per game: 14 targets 9 receptions 113.5 yards per game & .88 Tds 2024 Hollins & Coleman combined per game: 6.7 targets 4 receptions 69 yards per game & .66 TDs If you prefer 2024 Hollins/Coleman to 2023 Diggs/Davis I can no longer engage in this conversation as if you were objective on the subject. Diggs and Davis regressed in 2023. They are light years ahead of those 2 in 2024.

It certainly works that everyone can make plays. That’s what they want. I’m suggesting 3rd and 8, down 5, late to KC, Amari is the first look. That’s because he is most likely to “win” his rep. For years he’s been an elite route runner. Shakir finds space as does Kincaid. They will be the next looks if Allen doesn’t take off.

Fair The original point was that the “WRs quietly got better.” They didn’t. I am on record that they were a bottom 3 group prior to the Cooper deal. I’m not sure that was wrong. They were too limited. One player, at the top of the depth chart, changed the entire room. He may not end up as the most targeted but on 3rd and 7 when someone needs to “go win” it’s going to be Cooper that they look to. That’s a part of his value. It isn’t about volume. It’s about the ability to change team’s game plans and to open up space for everyone else. It has worked.

Let’s look at the facts: The Bills have averaged 37 PPG in the games that Cooper has played for them. They’ve averaged 28 PPG in the games that he didn’t. They averaged 204 passing yards per game in the 8 games without Cooper in the lineup and 286 passing yards per game in the 6 games with Cooper. Allen has thrown 12 TDs in the 6 games with Cooper and 13 TDs in the 8 games without him. * Also the teams that Cooper played against are 50 - 34 (.595 win %). The games that he didn’t those teams have a record of 50 - 62 (.446 win %). I’m not sure how e can look at these concrete facts or the EPA from @GoBills808 and try to form a different conclusion? The facts say that the passing game, scoring and winning are all way better in Cooper games despite playing superior teams.

I’m not a coach. I assume that they want Hollins and Coleman out there to block. The one thing that can’t be argued are the passing numbers in games with Cooper vs. without. They are posted throughout the last couple of pages. There is no opinion there. Those are facts. The passing game, scoring, and record, despite playing much better teams, have all been superior in the games where Cooper has played. I don’t disagree with facts. The Houston game the passing attack was atrocious. The Ravens just jammed the middle of the field and dared the Bills to win on the boundary. They said as much. The Bills adjusted and got Cooper. He’s won outside for years. Since that point, it has unlocked a different level on the offense (again check the numbers on the last few pages). People looking at his stats without looking at the offensive stats in those games are choosing to do so to make them more right about the WR group. They are still just average and they were well below average prior to Amari. Samuel hasn’t played well but he’s the guy that they thought he was. He has always been a gadget guy. As an Ohio State fan, I tried to tell that to everyone. Some tried to say, “no he is a wide receiver.” He still has a role here but his skill set was redundant with Shakir.

I guess that the question to that is were they as bad as some of us thought? The backs and TEs were always okay. The WRs were not good though. The passing game was shut down and they traded for a number 1. The numbers in the games that he’s played have been substantially better. Now the WRs are an average unit and the backs & tes are above average as receivers. The OL is top 5. The QB is otherworldly. The OC has been sensational. The offense has been excellent. That doesn’t mean that the wide receivers are/or have been good. They’ve been fine.

I remember that guy!! I assumed that it was authentic & maybe not all there.

I go onto other teams boards, that we are about to play, during the year to read their perspective on the Bills. I don’t sign up or anything. Every other board has a handful of Bills fans and they are usually jerks.

Yeah there are a few. Generally, they get eviscerated and disappear.