Kirby Jackson

This just feels like a no win situation. I have so little confidence in Day. I think that they show up this week like the UGA playoff game from a couple of years ago. That Georgia team was awesome and the Bucks outplayed them. If that happens here, they’ll win by 2 scores. If they show up a little blah, they’ll get beat and that’s a nightmare for the program. If they win this weekend, they’ll beat Oregon IMO.

ND SMU Texas OSU

Lol, this level of hyperbole is why I have remained so active in this thread. I love Shakir. If you take his per game stats from this year, and extrapolate them out, OVER 10 years without missing a single game, he will have less career receding yards than Donald Driver and Santana Moss. He will tie Curtis Conway with the 130th most receiving TDs in history. He isn’t destined for the HOF. 😂😂 He is a rich man’s Beasley. I’m a little confused as to whether Coleman is going to the HOF or just the Pro Bowl? He currently has the 50th most receiving yards per game in the NFL. Future HOFer, Khalil Shakir is 36th in receiving yards per game. Start fitting them for gold jackets now!! 😂😂

It’s odd that some people are trying to dance in the end zone in this thread. So many are confusing the elite offense with good WRs. I don’t have the energy to pull the WR stats and compare them to other teams. Other teams have worse QBs and worse OLs and better WRs. We shouldn’t confuse an elite offense with elite WRs. They’ve largely been who we thought they’d be. The question was, “will these weak WRs be their downfall?” That hasn’t been the case because of Brady/Josh/OL. It hasn’t been because they were miraculously better than we expected. Allen is going to throw for 4,000 yards without a 1,000 yard receiver.

I’m only speaking for my strong opinion on the topic. I said that it was a bottom 3 WR room with a ceiling of like 22. If we look at it objectively, that may not be far off (at least prior to Cooper). Shakir has become a high end slot. Samuel has been a disaster. Mack has been a good blocker and made some tough catches. He’s a 4 at best. Coleman has been just a guy. It isn’t different than anyone expected. The only thing that is surprising is a negative and that’s Samuel’s contributions. Lol, only Shakir had more than 1 catch last week!! Josh has just been a different level of elite. I’d add the OL to the conversation as well. They’ve been excellent. Josh has had CRAZY time to make plays. Even average NFL receivers can find space if they have 4+ seconds. The offense has worked because of Josh, Brady and the OL. The backs are pretty good as well. That was the plan and it is working. The offense being elite doesn’t mean that this WR group is.

We all agree with that. Just trying to not move the goal posts. This conversation, and the title of the thread is about the “WR room.” It isn’t about “the pass catchers.” They were always better than the WRs. Those aren’t interchangeable.

Again, all fine and good. Once he was considered the 5th best player and the other time the 2nd best player. Bruce and Thurman each finished ahead of him. Lamar has twice been considered the MVP & this year he will be top 3. He’s been in the league 7 years. He is regularly considered one of the best players in the league. Kelly didn’t hit the ballot in any other year based on what I saw. He’s more Goff or Hurts than Allen/Lamar/Mahomes. Depending on how you view Aikman, Moon, Young, etc… determines where Kelly was in his own era. He is definitely behind Marino, Montana and Elway. 4 is the ceiling. We obviously remember him fondly because he was the QB of the best teams in franchise history. He was a piece but as you mentioned, players like Thurman were better. Bruce obviously was as well.

Well the game evolves both ways. You have to look at where they are vs. their peers. The point is Lamar has consistently been viewed as one of the best few players in the league. He has 2 MVPs and will have another top 3 appearance this year. He’s elite in his era. Kelly didn’t have 2 MVPs and another top 3 finish (within his first 7 years). Let’s not overthink it. Some people are trying to take skill sets and drop them into different eras. That’s not possible because the game evolves. “How did they compare vs. their contemporaries?” Kelly was never the top player.

I guess the way that I view cross-generational comparisons are with people at their peaks (assuming that it isn’t a Linsanity like timeframe). Lamar at his best, is well ahead of Kelly at his best. He’s won 2 MVPs (1 was soft but if he won this year it would be legit). There was never a time that Kelly was at that level compared to the league. He once finished 2nd & once 5th. Both times, a member of his own team finished ahead of him. Kelly was a great player. We just remember him better than he was. He was more like a Goff/Hurts than an Allen/Lamar.

Rock star

Nope, they are irrelevant. KC is the biggest rival now. Miami is the most hated other than potentially KC.

I’m struggling with how anyone could argue that he was more impactful than Lamar?

Who said he was a backup? That’s insanity. It’s equally insane to believe that he would be a top 3 guy in this elite QB era. He wasn’t a top 3 guy in his era (Marino, Elway, Montana). Anywhere in 4-12 feels okay. I really don’t know the question that I’m asking. I guess that it is, “20 years from now, a young fan asks someone that is 70, and would have seen both primes, which one was better?” I think you did a nice job laying it out.

Who is the better QB historically Jim Kelly or Matt Stafford? I don’t know the right answer but it feels interesting.

This is a tough question. I voted Dawkins because I think that the OL has been the 2nd best player on the team. More specifically, the tackles have been elite. I picked the guy responsible for Josh’s blindside.

He’s definitely not top 3. He wasn’t top 3 when he played. I think anywhere from 4-12 is probably fine. He would be in the tier with Hurts, Goff, Stafford, Baker. Kelly was the steward of a great offense and a guy that you won a lot with. You win because of Allen, Jackson and Mahomes. The next tier has guys that can carry their teams but not every week. Its hard to compare eras but it feels like he would fall outside of the top tier and then it becomes personal preference.

They’ve tried to sell us on that over the last few years. I realize Raiola is a freshman but think that we are at 3,000+ days since a ranked win. Basically 8+ years without beating a ranked team. They’ve lost 27 consecutive games vs. ranked opponents!! Only 1 power 5 team has a longer streak, Rutgers. Maybe they just aren’t going to be good again?

Perfectly said!! Ironically, if there is a play on 3rd down and we need to force it to a WR, it’s the guy that they traded for. He didn’t have a target this week but did have 14 the week before. He’s probably the guy that they are most comfortable “winning” his matchup. These guys have all played fine. Hollins has blocked well and made some tough/clutch catches. Shakir has developed into a rich man’s Beasley with his ability to run after the catch. Coleman has flashed. His strengths coming out have been his strengths and his weaknesses coming out have been his weaknesses. The Cooper addition was big and it will play dividends. He’s a consummate pro. He can get open and make plays down the field. He can explode in any given game. Samuel was always going to be a gadget guy. That’s fine if they knew how to use him. Throw the ball down the field to him. Use misdirection. Get him in space. Don’t just throw WR screens to him. As a whole @Buffalo_Stampede hit the nail on the head. It is working. I’ve enjoyed this last season of Joe Brady as OC. The offense has been excellent.

See above. In a nutshell, Kelly was a 5 time Pro Bowl player that went to 4 Super Bowls. He was a steward of some of the greatest offenses in history. Goff is 30 and about to be a 4 time Pro Bowl player with potentially his 2nd Super Bowl appearance. By next year, Goff’s numbers for his career will all surpass Kelly’s. Now, it would be foolish to not take into account the era. Obviously gross numbers now are going to surpass that of the past. Both guys have won and distributed the ball to elite playmakers. Kelly is a better player historically than Goff. If (big if) Goff plays 5 more years and goes to 2 more Super Bowls, that discussion will be a little uncomfortable for some. The point was that Kelly was never the best QB in the league. He was never in that discussion by people other than Bills fans. He was in the discussion with guys like Aikman and Moon. The guys that come just after the top tier, almost exactly like one would view Hurts or Goff now. I don’t want to derail this thread by making it a Kelly conversation. He was left off the list because there isn’t a reasonable argument to be made that he was one of the 3 best football players to play for the Bills. If the conversation was the “3 most important players to play for the Bills” he would definitely be on there. Those 2 things aren’t interchangeable though.

Kelly is a very important Bill. There’s no doubt. He was the steward of the greatest run in franchise history. He might not have been one of the 4 best players on those teams. Bruce, Thurman and Andre were better players for sure. You could make an argument, talent wise, that Bennett was as well. By the nature of him being a QB, he was important. I actually think that the Goff or Hurts comparison is quite fair. Their teams are winning a lot. They’ve each been to the Super Bowl and could go again. They are Pro Bowl QBs. No one considers them the best QB in the league though. That’s who Kelly was. If we put our fond memories of that era aside, and look at it objectively, that was kind of who he was. He was more like Troy Aikman than he was like Josh Allen. The gap from Allen to Kelly is already pretty wide (even Kelly would admit that). It’s only going to grow over the next decade. Lol, I don’t mean it as an insult. I mean it as a “pump the brakes.” Those guys are good. Those guys will be WOF players for their respective franchises. With continued team success, they each will have a shot at the HOF. Feel free to substitute Aikman, Fouts or Moon.

No he shouldn’t. He was very intentionally left off the list. He was great. The idea of Jim Kelly is much better than the player. He was a great player in his era. He was, in his era, what Goff or Hurts is now. He was a pro bowl guy but never once considered the “best in the business.” He won a lot. He belongs in the HOF. He’s a top 25ish all-time QB. As a player, he is not in the conversation with those 3. Honestly, there are multiple guys that are between 3 and Kelly.

I can accept that. OJ was before my time but he was historically great. He was doing things that others weren’t. I think that all 3 answers are reasonable. There’s a case to be made for each. No one else belongs in the conversation.

Kelly was the steward of a great offense. He had pro bowlers and HOFers everywhere. He was the QB of that team but he’s not Allen. If you put Allen on those teams they win multiple. He’s WAY more dominant.

This sucks if so