Mango

Cut him, get us out of/into cap hell. All part of the process...

I don’t know If we beat MIA, NYJ, DEN, CLE, we are at 93%. That stretch from week 13-16 is going to be tough.

2018 Josh Allen: Slings the rock around and does what JA does 2019 Roger Goodell: “With the 9th overall pick in the 2019 NFL Draft, the Buffalo Bills select Ed Oliver, Defensive Tackle, Houston”

Interesting you said first 16 starts, because his first 300 yard game was...IN THE PLAYOFFS, of his rookie year... And yes, per another thread, it seems as though QBs who take longer to have a SINGLE 300 yard game early in their careers (total start) have not generally become franchise QBs. Josh can do it, but he would be the first as he pushes toward the back end of year two, and 20 starts without one.

It is weird how quickly people forget How bad things can get. Could you imagine this board if JA went 10/19 84 yards and an INT. Thankfully we have avoided that type of QB play with Josh. ??‍♂️

I don't know. It is a thin line. We have seen it happen to a bunch of QB's espescially those who look good in shorts. EJ, Bortles, Trubisky, Losman (remember he went like 7/10 65 yards one game haha), etc. Is it coaches hampering greatness or is it guys who just aren't good enough? Sometimes franchises and fanbases are just so desperate for good/better QB play they start lashing out at everybody else. It is year 2 for our own JA, so who knows yet. We had some pretty terrible OL and WR play last year, but I am on the doubter side currently. Would love to be wrong.

He looks like every John Candy character combined.

Yeah. With all the negative hype around Haskins coming into his rookie year, I thought he was fine. His game was meh. Some of his balls I verbally said, “oh that’s a good throw” He made some plays, missed some plays. Had a good first down with his legs. Maybe I am giving him more credit because I expected more of dumpster fires

I thought that Haskins and Allen played similarly, and if we swapped defenses, the game would have flipped.

I think Allen had a good “game manager” day. 1 TD. 140 yards. Meh. Not game ball worthy. I’d grade a C. Didn’t do anything to win the game. Didn’t do anything to lose it. Singletary and Phillips are easily my 1 and 2. I questioned Singletary’s overall ability this week because he’s had 20 touches. Kid balled today!

Again, is the offense performing to the level you would expect given the level of investment in both draft capital and money by this front office? It is an easy questions. Yes or No?

So just to get this straight. I misquoted the Allen pick as 2 firstsand not a first and 2 seconds. Just to stay on point, we should expect more out of 2-1sts, 3- 2nds, 2-3rds, and the second highest paid center. That’s enough of an investment to expect more than bottom 25% of the league production. But change that investment to 1-1st, 5-2nds, 2-3rds and the second highest paid center, and suddenly nobody understands the game, don’t complain about the offense, and people are nitpicking with their criticisms. Jesus Christ...

Also QB’s. If I am a quality QB, the difference between 30M and 25M for myself isn’t as much as taking that 5M every year and getting a better tieres OLineman or WR. Because QBs take up about 15% of the salary cap, they have a much different effect than every other position. That said, I’m a MLB, I am getting paid!

Unsure if you’re trying to be this way, or being pedantic is in you nature. This conversation started because you (paraphrasing) asked the board to find something other than the offense that was sub par because they don’t have any players there. I responded with, that’s half the roster and we’ve dedicated tons of resources listing the draft picks, and we shouldn't be bottom of the league given the resources allocated. Not sure how switching Josh Allen from 2 firsts to a first and 2 seconds really changes my point to be in your favor. You keep moving the goal posts without ever actually making any point what so ever.

Really, that’s all you got out of what I posted? Sorry 2 2nds and a 1st. Is everything different now?

Like I said: It isn't because they have ignored that side of the ball, it is because they have not done a great job of identifying talent on that side of the ball. 2 firsts, 3 seconds, 2 thirds, and the 2nd highest paid center should be better than bottom of the barrel. Also, I do think that both the WR and OL are significantly upgraded from last year. I am sick of hearing that we need a future HOF-er like Julio Jones in order for our QB/offense to reach average. Most of the league finds production without Julio Jones. I really don't think is above average yet. In fact I think he is well below in basically every single column on NFL.com Completion %- 32/37-QB's with over 80 passing attempts, only current starter he is ahead of is Baker and Fitz Yards per game- 26th- only current starters he is ahead of are Fitz (he has been in and out this is skued), Kyle Allen, Sam Darnold, Daniel Jones, Mitch Trubisky, Mason Rudolph (left game early when he looked like he died) TD's- 20th- 9 TD's- Tied with Case Keenum, Teddy B (Backup- Started 5 games), Kyler Murray(Rookie), Mason Rudolph (Started 4 games). Andy Dalton (benched) INT's- 6th or 46th- Depends on how you want to look at it. Only ahead of Matt Ryan, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold in terms of QB's still starting. Tied with Fitz, Jimmy G, Rivers, Daniel Jones, Dak, and Goff 1st Down %- 22/37 with 80+ attempts- Starters he is ahead of Wentz, Fitz, Murray, Trubisky, Darnold, Baker, Daniel Jones, Rudolph Sacks- T-9th most- Despite one of the better graded PP lines- Tied with Wilson and Matt Ryan- Only Starters ahead of- Baker, Jones, Watson, Murray. Rating- 30th- Minimum 80 passing attempts- Current starters ranked lower- Fitz, Baker, Darnold

Like football organization? Or company in general? Because I have seen you post this a few times, and mentioned how important culture is to any successful organization. I worked for a fortune 100 company that I thought had a pretty toxic culture. I work for a company approaching the 1B that has horrendous process, bordering on no process at all. I manage a single account/vendor that is worth hundreds of millions of dollars, and they have trouble getting out of their own way. I know Olympic gold medal coaches who run a toxic environment. I can name 100 instances of the inverse, businesses that are buttoned up, and close down. Companies that are great to work for, but have trouble getting by. Coaches that develop great team culture and buy in, but can't actually coach their sport out of a paper bag. The point is, there are issues everywhere, with everything, everybody brings their own baggage, issues, inefficiencies to the table, and everybody has their own secret sauce as well. I wouldn't paint with such a broad brush, and assume that everybody is doing ABC.

Haha, me too. Saratoga area? Honestly it took some time, but I had no deadline, so it wasn't like wasting a day, I just did it over a few days. It is amazing what you can get done in an hour long conference call, that could have been an email.

You are moving the goal posts. You asked for a criticism of the team, outside of the largest criticism of the team, which is a stupid exercise to interject yourself in. Now it is, well there isn't enough talent. It is year 3, given FA, it does not take that long to move from bad, to mediocre. They currently are not as good as the offense they inherited. It isn't because they have ignored that side of the ball, it is because they have not done a great job of identifying talent on that side of the ball. 2 firsts, 3 seconds, 2 thirds, and the 2nd highest paid center should be better than bottom of the barrel. They have invested more than enough to not be 19th in YPG, 25th in offensive plays, and 24th in points per game...all of which the Bills are the last ranked team above .500 Josh Allen- 2x 1sts Dawkins- 2nd Ford-2nd Zay Jones- 2nd Devin Singletary- 3rd Kelvin Benjamin- 3rd Mitch Morris- 2nd Highest paid center in the NFL

Dude, the offense is basically half of a team, and you want people to give an honest criticism of the team, MINUS the most glaring issue.

I don’t think so. He has Brown between the hashes open. Sitting in a soft spot. At the 0:03 mark Allen’s feet are set. Pass rusher is about 5-6 yards away. JB is right in front of him. Taking off is classic JA

I think overall you are right. But most of that comes into play whether a QB puts up a single 300 yard game in the first 15 games. IE coaching, matchupe etc. all fall into place by week one or 15. Allen is at 19 now. It is pretty rarefied air, the company is not great there. Does it mean he can't be the next great QB? No. But he would definitely be the very first to do so.

Of course there are a wide array of variables that go into the success of a players career. That does not mean there are not meaningful checkpoints. If you have a model that is encompassing, go for it. Would love to see it. I think talented players generally will find a way to show something pretty early on. The list of QB's who took 19 starts or more to have a 300 yard game is bleak. Does throwing a 300 yard game early in your career mean a QB will be good, of course not. But it seems that the more time goes by, the lesser of a career the player has. David Carr Blaine Gabbert Rex Grossman Charlie Frye Mark Sanchez Kyle Orton Tarvaris Jackson Vince Young Charlie Batch Tyrod Taylor Alex Smith David Garrard

List of QB's on a 53 man roster still, who have not thrown for 300 yards yet, or did not reach that mark by their 19th start. Tyrod Taylor Alex Smith- Joe Webb AJ McCarron David Fales Sean Manion Jeff Driskell Davis Webb Nathan Peterman Josh Allen Josh Rosen, Mason Rudolph Luke Falk You could. I just did 1 as their first, year, 2 as their second. Not based on completion. of the year. I thought years in the league might be a good indicator, but I think the data is pointing heavier towards number of starts, independent of time in the league

All good stuff. Part of the issue with this is, we (I), don't have access to some NFL master file that we can just mess with in excel, so it has to be done manually. I didn't collect anything in a way that I could bin this out in terms of frequency or averages. Even teasing out passing yards per start would be difficult with the way the data is given to the public.