Wayne Cubed

You can if EJ's top target was FJ. Houston picked up on that and Watt picked up on that.

Oh I know the plays and I agree it is frustrating to see but is that Hackett's call or Marrone's? It seems to me, based on Marrone's attitude, that it's him. He's going to run the ball the way he runs it because thats what he does. Stubborn to the end.

Is It? I think most of the "better" OC's in the league have a above average QB. Gase, Bevell, etc. they have genuinely good QB's. The only outlier there is Arians and maybe Kelly. But I wouldn't exactly say Arians offense is winning games, it's their defense. Philly's offense is obviously being limited by their QB and now they are loosing games.

I'm sorry I just don't see it. And unfortunately history proves that most OC's in fact haven't gotten more out of Kyle Orton. He's playing exactly the way he's played for the past 10 years. Could the offense be more creative? Sure. Would that limit the amount of mistakes Orton now regularly makes? I don't think so. No amount of spreading the offense out with help Kyle Orton hit his receivers in stride, which he apparently can't do now. It also won't help him from checking down. He might in fact replace Trent Edwards for Captain Checkdown. Which would improve the offense more: A new OC with the same QB's on the team? OR A better QB with the same OC?

Is it the design of the offense or the QB's? To me it looks more and more that it's the QB's. They can't even make basic throws or lead their WR's. Orton holds on to the ball too long and has no movement in the pocket. He's the most frustrating QB to watch. Put it this way, do you think a different OC could get more out of either of these QB's? I seriously don't.

That's where I'm at. He's unbelievably frustrating and I find myself yelling at the TV because of him.

Like I said, the Pack doesn't score big away from Home.

Most annoying uniform ever. The red stripe on the jersey doesn't match the stripe on the pants.

I think at this point the Bills should be willing to take the risk at going after Bradford. He has played 2 full seasons and part of another. There isn't much else out there. So it's either ride with Orton or find someone in FA. I don't think someone in the draft where the Bills are picking will be able to come in and lead this team. Maybe EJ figures something out but I think it's a long shot at this point.

How many of those "top-tier" HC have franchise QBs on their team? Is it the coach or the QB? Arians is an outlier. He's able to win despite the QB position. He is very much the exception.

Yea I think it's Sully, I mean he slyly didn't provide the direct quote and did the same for when Woods responded.

You did in the fact that Sammy didn't "lament" the game plan. Woods certainly did.

Yea thanks I read that... and again He said "they" there is no they. Sammy didn't lament the game plan at all, He's not quoted in the article but he supposedly has said the wideouts weren't featured early because of the game plan. That's not a complaint.

Sorry deleted that post as I've now read the article. http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/jerry-sullivan/staying-with-orton-means-marrone-has-little-faith-in-ej-20141210 He's mincing words quite a bit. And I think Coach T said "they" lamented the game plan, which Woods just said he wishes they were more aggressive, there was no quote from Sammy. So that's not entirely true.

Joe Thomas at LT? He was beat like a drum by Jerry Hughes.

Well if Sullivan said it, it MUST be true.

Doesn't hurt that Zimmer is the HC there, who I'm sure had a lot of say on the defensive side much like Pettine does in Cleveland and Rex does in NYC.

The route doesn't matter. What slot guy are you talking about? Talilb never back pedals to stay with Watkins, he is on Hogan the entire time, there is no back pedalling. He's on the 10 pre snap and on the 8 when Kyle begins to throw, I wouldn't exactly call that back pedalling. He took 2/3 shuffle steps back. Then breaks towards Hogan. So because he wasn't going at full speed towards Hogan, it's not the same? Talib is following Hogan, he recognizes the play early and breaks towards him, the ball is in the air when contact is made, my contention is that is the design of the play. The ball is out of Orton's hands in a matter of seconds. The ball is never intended to go to Sammy otherwise he would avoid the contact to not disrupt his route. He could clearly see Talib. Like I said, clever play, but IMO it's a pick. Look at the screen shot. Orton hasn't released the ball yet. Talib is following Hogan and the deeper Bronco player is on Watkins.

I know what a pick is, thanks. Could have saved some time not writing this. Your examples are horrible. It has nothing to with running down the field and making contact. ANY contact after 1 yard initiated by an offensive player is considered illegal. A pick is a judgment call. Was there intent to impede a defensive player? In this case I think the play is designed to do just that. Here's another illegal pick: But but but Welkers route was just taking him into the defender. And I quote: "There are two very important points to keep in mind when talking about legal versus illegal picks: within one yard of the line of scrimmage, anything goes you can block the defender as much as you want and it doesn't matter if the ball is in the air or not; but beyond that one-yard buffer it is illegal for an offensive player to initiate contact with a defender. Beyond the one-yard zone, offensive pass interference is in effect from the moment the ball is snapped until the receiver catches the ball (or until a defensive player touches the ball). It’s different than defensive pass interference, which can only happen when the ball is in flight. So, on one of the Broncos’ favorite plays, Decker can’t block Talib on a screen pass to Thomas beyond the 1-yard zone until Thomas catches the ball." I'm gonna shut up after this.

Wow ok, name calling. I've watched it numerous times, thanks. It's a pick. Idk from the snap it looks like Talib is marking Hogan. Anyways apparently I'm an idiot so ill end it here.

Thats how all picks work though. The defender who is trailing a receiver runs into another receiver who's route is designed to take him into the path of that defender. That's exactly what happened. At the very least it's illegal contact on the offense.

I understand it isn't called a lot. As far as if Watkins intentionally ran into Talib, look at the formation and the play design. it's a bunch formation with Woods, Watkins and Hogan. Woods runs a fly route. Hogan runs a little swing route and Watkins runs an out and up. The reason its an intentional pick is because both Hogan and Watkins routes are going in the same direction initialally. Hogans defender is playing off but still trailing him. Watkins route takes him first out towards the sideline and then it is stretched vertically. When he stretches it, he is interfering with the defender trying to cover Hogan because his route is taking him directly into the defender. It's not different form when they run 2 crossing routes and the one players route takes him into the trailing defender of another player. It's a pick. A clever one. But it's still a pick.

If they cut him, that money can be saved against the cap. So there is reason to cut him. Basically his salary for next year is almost $17mm, 3.5MM of it is dead money, $13MM us guaranteed but that can be a cap saving if they cut him.

But the Rams will want something in return, a draft pick, and as much as you would say it wouldn't be high, he's still a QB. AND they would still be on the hook for the $13MM and renegotiated contract isn't going to change that, the money is gurantee'd.