hondo in seattle

Awesome! Hilarious it was done in Texas.

It does sound familiar but Orton was actually much worse as a rookie. I suppose this supports the argument that EJ has a higher ceiling. Orton's QB rating his rookie year was about 60. As a starter for Denver, he settled in at about 87. Another Boilermaker, Drew Brews, had a QB rating of 76 his first year as a starter (his 2nd year in the league). The past four years, his QB rating has averaged about 100. Orton went up about 17 points while Brews improved about 24 points. If EJ improves 20 points versus his rookie year, he'll settle in with a 97 QB rating which is very good.

You are looking at Orton's career stats. He freakin' sucked as a rookie when thrust unexpectedly into the starting lineup. His rookie year skews his career numbers downward. Like most QBs, he's gotten better since. In his two years as the Broncos starter, when he had some talent around him, Orton had a QB rating of about 87 with about 7.1 yards per attempt and a QBR of about 50. These are respectable numbers. EJ had QB rating of about 77 last year with about 6.4 yards per completion and a 42 QBR. He wasn't nearly as productive as Buffalo's starter as Orton was as Denver's starter. In his only start for Dallas last year, Orton was 30 of 46 for 358 yards and 2TDs. I'd love to see EJ produce a game like that. I'm not saying Orton should start. I agree with the line of thought that says EJ may have a higher ceiling and we need to find out. But right now today Orton just might be the better QB.

This was surprising to me so I looked it up. And we were in fact 11th in hometown TV ratings (at least thru 15 games: http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20140103-cowboys-local-tv-ratings-rank-only-16th-among-nfl-teams.ece). I'm guessing the national interest in the Bills is weaker. Apparently the schedulers don't consider the Bills ready for prime time.

At least Thailand has other diversions.

Yeah, it was a Chris Brown PR piece but it was still nice to read the quotes. EJ is a hard-working kid. At least some people in the Bills organization - including apparently some players - believe in him. I certainly hope he'll succeed. But no one truly knows until he either does or doesn't. Sometimes all the hard work in the world can't make up for an innate lack of talent.

I so disagree. I'd probably take a healthy Freddy in his prime over any of these guys. You gotta remember the line Freddy ran behind when he was in his prime. He got all those yards on his own. I believe he was 1st or 2nd in the league one year in Yards After Contact (too lazy to look it up). He was exciting to watch back then. I think Freddy would have produced Thurman like numbers if he had played in the early 90s - and stayed healthy. Where he ranks in Bills history is debatable. The Bills have not been blessed with a lot of good QBs but we have been blessed with some dynamic backs.

He's been my favorite Bill since he was a backup years ago. Even then you could see he acted with class and played with determination. If he had played on a better team and stayed healthy, he would have been invited to multiple Pro Bowls. While his character is widely praised, I still think his talent is often underestimated.

I live in Seattle and would have trouble naming 5 players from the Seahawk squad despite their Super Bowl run. I'm not even slightly a fan. I'm not much of a NFL fan as far as that goes. I'm a Bills fan and will always be a Bills fan. I get a lot of grief from 'Hawk fans and that's great - it's all part of the fun of the sport.

It is interesting that there's been so little talk about our D. But with Kiko out and Byrd gone, will it be good enough to win low scoring games? With Crossman running ST, I'm not expecting a lot there. And both Hackett and EJ are unproven youngsters. I worry about 2 of the 3 units.

Huh? The Star? You're using the Star to make a point? That's worse than using Wikipedia. Far worse. During Desert Storm some of my soldiers were interviewed by a reporter from the New York Times. The reporter had a canned, incendiary quote written before the interview and asked if anyone was willing to have it attributed to them. One of my naive young privates - who never said anything like the quote - said the reporter could attribute it to him. When it hit the papers, a PR firestorm ensued. If a reputable newspaper like the NYT does stuff like this, what low journalism standards can we expect from the Star? To me, Brady is just a football player. I have no opinion of him as a human being because I don't know him personally. All I know is that he's a good QB who plays for the wrong team.

Good summary

Best: 10-6 Worst: 4-12 Most Likely: 8-8 (yep, benderbender, my grapes have apparently withered to raisins)

I wouldn't be surprised if Orton supplanted EJ at some point this season. But that might not mean the end of EJ. Orton is an aging journeyman. EJ is a learning youngster and 1st round draft pick. EJ could potentially sit behind Orton for year or so before taking the reins back from him.

Whatever your point of view, didn't this ship already sail?

"When a pickpocket walks down the street, all he sees are pockets." The OP isn't an EJ fan - clearly - and only seems to notice the bad stuff and miss the good. It's hard to know what the players truly think of EJ. But certainly a number of them have praised him this year.

I think the Bills have 10 or 11 new starters (counting old starters in new positions). It may take a while for the team to gel (if it ever does).

Fair enough point. But even 1st round QBs have a fairly low success rate in the NFL. Given the importance of the position, I was among those advocating for the Bills to draft another QB this year. If Manuel crashes and burns this year, Orton will suffice as a caretaker. But we'll have to wait until next year to roll the dice in the draft again.

Orton is, by far, my favorite pick from the QBs realistically available. In 2009 and 2010, when Orton started for Denver and had some talent around him, he completed about 60% of his passes for a QB rating of about 87. His more recent stats with Dallas are even better, though in very limited action. Having started 70 games for 4 different teams, he's a perfect mentor for EJ. Regards to comparisons to Fitz: I really have trouble understanding how anyone who witnessed both them play could rate them as equals. I really like Fitz but his arm is neither as strong nor as accurate as Orton's. As for Orton's pay, I have to guess that we paid what we had to pay. I'm glad Whaley and company anted up instead of going the season with Tuel as the backup. If EJ fails, Orton will take over and do reasonably well. Then next year we'll draft another QB with an early pick. If EJ succeeds, he'll be aided by Orton's experience. This was a very good signing.

Given that none of our 3 young QBs have improved much - if at all - from last year, does anyone else worry about the coaching they're receiving?

I actually thought Lewis could be a good #2 when I watched him last year. Considering how little preparation he had, I thought he looked okay when thrown into action. And Tuel seemed to have a live arm and just needed to be coached up. Apparently Whaley thought similarly. And we both turned out to be wrong. So now we're shopping and kicking tires. OBD clearly made a mistake but I don't know if it "reeks of incompetence."

I don't think it is a "completely different game." Certainly both the rules and offense schemes have evolved in ways that help QB stats. But football is still football. I think the stats tell a story: neither EJ nor Jim were stellar in their first ten starts. But that's a pretty meaningless story. Lots of HOF QBs have had crappy starts as have lots of sh*tty QBs. Nothing in these numbers tell us what kind of QB EJ will be. EJ lovers think they see something beyond the numbers - strong arm, good study habits, etc. - that will help him eventually excel in the NFL. EJ haters think they see something beyond the numbers - "slow eyes," lack of competitive passion, etc. - that will prevent him from excelling in the NFL. The numbers themselves don't tell us much about EJ's potential.

And they cut him early so he would have the opportunity to latch on with another team.

I'd sign Orton. Orton would need some time to learn the offense which would give EJ time to prove he's ready to step up. I'm not sure how long I'd wait but at some point if EJ wasn't producing, I'd hand things over to Orton (who is not a bad QB). Even if Orton didn't end up starting, he'd be a good mentor for EJ and an insurance policy if EJ got hurt.

Really? It's like me saying I know more about your work than you do. I used to be an army officer and was struck by the clueless arrogance of some of the correspondents reporting on military operations. They had no idea what they were talking about but pontificated with confidence. Marrone, Hackett, et al might not be geniuses. They might not be winners. But they sure as heck know more about NFL talent evaluation than anyone here. We have no idea what concerns the coaching staff are sharing with each other, or what schemes they might be devising to work around EJ's weaknesses. They're not going to talk about these things publicly of course.