hondo in seattle

Orton had 300 yards passing in his first game as a Bill. EJ has never yet thrown for 300 in the NFL. I like EJ but we might be 5-0 if Orton played the last three games. And I think we'd be 2-3 if EJ played this one. But as Ohio says, the DEFENSE won this game. Great to see the six sacks and a good Detroit offense held to 7 points. Awesome game.

Good info. I stand corrected. The photo and caption comes from a Washington Post article, "A look back at Howard University's homecomings." But I'll trust your personal, first-hand experience. It's hard now not to wonder if Wright plagiarized it.

Yikes, not this again! I'm not sure who first designed this logo but I'm guessing it really was Wright. It seems Howard's only been using their charging buffalo logo since 2002. We've been using a charging buffalo since '74. Here's a photo of Howard's prior logo (this pic is from 1996): #32 is Howard running back, Aray Williams. (http://www.washingto...ry.html#photo=4) Wright's daughter said this: “As an artist, he considered this his greatest accomplishment. He told me that the legacy he left behind was the Bills logo, that he left a footprint for the world." (http://www.buffalone...chievement.html) It's hard to believe Wright would have been so proud of it had he simply copied it from some kid at Howard.

What did Lyons do at Xerox? I'm hoping it was a lot of statistical analysis.

He'd be luckier if the Bills had a better OL. But I doubt if he's feeling like complaining.

I should think about this more but for now I'll go with Dennis Shaw. How many starting QBs throw twice as many INTs as TDs? Btw, I think only starters should be nominated. Our practice squads and 2nd teams have been full of awful, anonymous players over the years. Honorable mention to Jerry Crafts (who, as I recall, was only a part time starter).

Hackett calls for CJ up the middle but Orton changes the call in the huddle and goes long for Sammy. 6 points!

Color me "Not Surprised" I understand - to some extent - those who questioned Ralph's leadership. While I never bought into the Ralph-is-cheap POV, it is true that the Bills have won less than half their games with Ralph as owner. Something wasn't quite right. But I never understood those who questioned Ralph's - or Mary's - motivations. Bill Polian, John Butler, Buddy Nix, Jim Kelly and many others have attested to Ralph's opportunities to move the club and his dedication to Buffalo. The lease he signed, the instructions he left, et al., made it difficult - if not impossible - for an out-of-towner to buy and move the Bills. Ralph's restrictions drove the price of the club down to the detriment of his family, but to the benefit of Buffalo. And now the Wilsons are donating hundreds of millions to charity. I'm sure Ralph and Mary lived, and Mary continues to live, a comfortable lifestyle. But they were always about far more than just money. I hope some of the malicious posters who bad-mouthed Ralph and Mary on this board in the past reflect a little about their generosity. And let us all try to cultivate more generous spirits.

What can we expect from Kyle Orton? I thought it might be interesting to look at his productivity with Denver. He was still young and immature when starting for Chicago and the Bears didn't give him enough weapons to work with. So on to the Mile High city... In Orton's two years as Denver's starter, he averaged 256 yards per game. Let's assume Orton hasn't gotten worse since then - he may have gotten better. Let's also assume Hackett is a competent OC who can design a competent passing attack and the Bills wideouts and O Line are as more-or-less proficient as the Broncos of 2009-2010. It's a lot of assumptions, I know, but I'm going to say Orton is capable of passing for 256 yards per game as a Bill. Last year our rushing attack chipped in 144 yards per game. Let's assume they have the ability to repeat that performance especially if we have a QB that can challenge and stretch defenses. The Bills would then be rolling up 400 yards per game! My assumptions aren't overly ambitious, I don't think. I'm only expecting the Bills backs to do what they've done and Kyle to do what he's done. Even if 400 yards per game is exaggerated, I do believe a Kyle led offense can produce more than 320 yards per game which is what we're averaging now.

My apologies. This is entirely and invariably true.

Good response. Personnel evaluation is an inexact science. GMs make bad picks and trades all the time. Kiper and McShay have been notoriously wrong on many, many guys. The average sportswriter is wrong even more often. It's all about probabilities. Professional scouting staffs will be right far more often than Average Joe. (Unless, of course,that scouting staff is run by Matt Millen but that was only because Matt was the Average Joe). Probably everyone on this board can think of a time they were right about a prospect and the Bills were wrong. But even a broken clock is right twice a day. It's good for our egos to think we were smarter than the FO but in fact we don't know a fraction of what they know. I wouldn't want Nix or Whaley making picks based on what they read in some article. I would hope their scouts did far more film study and conducted many more interviews than any sportswriter. And for all the time and money the Bills put into due diligence, they're wrong sometimes. My hope is that Whaley will be wrong less often than 31 other GMs.

My dream goes like this... Orton proves to be a good game manager and the Bills win (barely) the AFCE. Next year, EJ's a new man - a strong, confident leader and a decisive, accurate passer. He's become so much better than Orton that he wins the starting job and the Bills cruise to the playoffs.

Yeah, that's another worry. It would be great if the OL could open holes for the backs so we didn't have to pass that often in the first place. And then kept Orton clean when we did pass. Btw, thanks QC for the video. The Orton haters were making me doubt my recollection of him as a QB. But the vid you found bolstered my confidence in Kyle and makes me think we could possibly beat the Lions. A win would really boost the morale of the team and rally them around their new QB. Not to mention keep us in 1st place in the wide open AFCE.

Clearly if EJ hired a mental conditioning coach, he must worry there's something wrong with the mental aspect of his game - whether you call it the yips or something else. Anyone watching the last game could see it in EJ's eyes, facial expression, and overall demeanor. He was down on himself and it effected his play. Perfectionism is great. Nonetheless, QBs need to have short memories, as they say. Or as Whaley says, just go play football and not try to be perfect on every play and certainly not beat yourself up when you fall short.

Really? Orton is no P. Manning or Drew Brees. He's a competent, not exceptional, starter. But if EJ played like this the past two weeks we'd be 4-0.

26CornerBlitz, thanks for posting. CC had an interesting POV: "In Buffalo, they have no choice." "Kyle Orton has a real feel for the game." "Reads defenses well" "Classic delivery" "If I had to go all my chips to the table this year... I think I agree with Kyle Orton."

Interesting idea. Peter King just wrote that EJ is a perfectionist and that Whaley has had to tell him to "just play football." There have been reports, too, of EJ hiring a mental coach. The yips are a mental problem. It fits. Yolo, you might be onto something.

There were a few times this season where EJ threw his WRs into big hits. Football is a sport for warriors. The lily-livered shouldn't don a uniform and run onto the field of play. Then again, QBs shouldn't get their wideouts needlessly killed.

My reaction is contradictory. On the one hand, I appreciate hearing what players really think - especially when their thoughts create hope for better outcomes. On the other hand, I don't think players should publicly criticize teammates. Marrone says the change should be good for EJ. Maybe watching the veteran Orton conduct business will be help EJ better understand what's expected of a QB. And maybe the work he does with the mental coach he supposedly hire will also help.

Orton is not very mobile and he doesn't throw the best long pass. So he may get sacked more than EJ and he won't stretch the field. But as an experienced guy I would expect him to find open receivers more proficiently - and actually complete those passes. Eventually his presence could lead to a more sophisticated offense. I'm not sure I'd expect that right away.

This is basically correct. Passer efficiency rating rewards guys who go 10 for 15 for 120 yards. You won't win many games like that. QBs need to be able to put up 300 yard games from time to time. Some QBs develop more quickly than others. I hope EJ becomes great some day. But - so far - on his best days he was a capable game manager. In his young career, he never lit up a defense.

I guess the read-option goes out the window.

Yep. And by publicly stating this, Marrone is putting all the responsibility for the decision on his shoulders - where it belongs as HC.

Is anyone else old enough to remember when Tom Landry used to alternate between Craig Morton and Roger Staubach? Landry went to the Super Bowl with both those QBs. There's no coaching rule that says you have to stay with the same QB forever. Yep, fans and players both like continuity under center. But it's not the right answer for every circumstance. I won't say Marrone is a great coach - that remains to be seen. But this is the right move at the right time. EJ seems to be regressing while Orton has been progressing with his understanding of the offense.

How close are you to EJ? Personally, I'm not convinced that this isn't the best thing for Manuel. Besides throwing poorly in Houston, EJ looked downright hangdog and it appears some of the players were losing faith in him. I like EJ but have to concede that Orton probably gives us the better chance of winning right now. But I also wonder if EJ might also benefit.