BADOLBILZ

@YoloinOhio pondering the impact of this allegation on Urban Liar's myriad and all 100% legitimate health concerns

1) Regarding your first paragraph......you are of course correct that most runs result in a "some" gain of yardage. Last season the average carry netted 4.4 yards. But "some" is not a specific yardage number........a TFNG = exactly 0 yards gained. Your team may only run for zero gain 3 times in a game but they aren't likely to run for any other exact yardage amount......positive or negative......... more often than they run for exactly zero. 2) TFNG are valuable......one yard more valuable than a tackle for 1 yard gain......2 yards more valuable than a TF2YG.......3 yards more valuable than a 1 yard sack. As I've said, stats like TFL and sacks are broad and they don't ALWAYS reflect exceptional individual performance........but if a player gets a lot of them it's fair to assume that player is doing exceptional work. I pointed out two other MLB's that had 18 TFL each last year........Edmunds had only 4. That's a very big difference. 3) MLB is ABSOLUTELY a devalued position........much like the RB position, you need one but you don't need a star quality one. And just like Derrick Henry is a playmaking difference maker at RB.......a guy like Devin White can be that at MLB. Tremaine Edmunds.........despite physically being the "Derrick Henry of MLB's".......an absolute freak........has not been a game changing, playmaking, difference making MLB. He's been above average in a league where there aren't many above average MLB's......and a league where there don't need to be. Average is fine at that position. Average is NOT fine at pass rusher..........and that is a position that Edmunds seems to project much better too.

No, they aren't. It's just typical "apologist speak".........people like @eball exaggerate the criticisms to make them seem unfair.

Well put. If he were a 6'1" tall 235# 4th round pick his performance would look a lot better by comparison. He's a lot more talented and invested-in than that. Maybe he puts it together in 2020 and starts looking like a difference maker..........or maybe the wear and tear of the middle continues the 2020 trajectory and takes him the other way.........we shall see.

It's polarized because he has such obvious physical talent......was assigned to a de-valued position and has made only a modest impact.......and so much was invested in him (and continues to be with the enormous fully guaranteed 5th year option the team was compelled to pick up). My contention from the start was that it was a gamble putting the top pass rushing prospect from that 2018 draft at MLB. The Bills thought they had re-invented the wheel with Edmunds..........but MLB's traditionally are a physical reflection of the RB position for a reason.........that's why you don't have guys with edge player physical profiles like Edmunds and Greg Rousseau playing MLB. It absolutely hasn't worked out as planned. In fact, I think they've been lucky that he's remained as healthy as he has in the middle. And, in the meantime, they haven't had a reliable pass rusher. Yes, Devin White and Roquan Smith had 18 TFL's last year..........they totally outclassed Edmunds and their more traditional physical stature and RB-like instincts are why.............but if Edmunds had been used as an edge all this time I suspect his profile would look like that of a MUCH more valuable player than White or Smith.

There's also only one forum member here who was fired from the secretary pool at One Bills Drive in the spring of 1983. We'd love to hear your side of the story.

I think the objective on defense is actually to get a turnover..........forcing a punt is nice but turnover differential is an incredibly decisive stat. You can really go down a rabbit hole picking situations where a TFNG "on one down" is as good or better than a TFL or sack "on another down". On the same down a TFL or sack is always as good or better than a TFNG. Negative plays are viewed as a reflection of exceptional individual play while TFNG's usually happen with 4-6 defenders on the same plane and don't necessarily require anyone to defeat a block. We know all negative plays don't necessary represent an extraordinary play by the person credited with the stat either.......sometimes a guy lucks into a garbage sack etc............but if you get 18 TFL's like Smith and White each did then you are doing something very right.........and if you get just 4, like Edmunds, you are more than unlucky.

Sounds like Gilmore and the Pats should keep some Donny 2-ply in the off-hand.

Look at the probability issue this way: 1) A tackle for no gain focuses ONLY on one specific yard of the field. It's a much more specific stat than a TFL. Not going to argue over "zero" so let's just say there approximately 100 individual potential yardage outcomes on a handoff. A run for -11 and a run for +72 yards are both on the rare end of that range......but just like a TFNG each of those are 1 specific possible yardage outcome of a handoff from the middle of your own end of the field. 2) You can only be tackled where there are tacklers. The only area of the field where there are always a lot of tacklers for the RB to evade is right at the LOS. So while you may have a wide assortment of yardage outcomes on 25 handoffs in a game.......and the vast majority of them will be for a gain......the MOST LIKELY of all possible specific yardage gained results on run plays in general is going to be zero. You can say I am de-valuing a tackle for no gain.........but I don't think so........they are going to happen FREQUENTLY regardless. And not even so much on first down like you are talking about.......a lot of times on 2nd and short, 3rd and short.......goal line.....teams practically run themselves into no-gain outcomes all the time. And those don't necessarily prove a lot about the individual talent on either side of the ball. And one of the reasons statisticians don't value a net zero play as much as a negative play is because tackles at the LOS often don't require a great deal of individual skill. If the DL ties up their gaps and just leaves a narrow space to run or forces a runner horizontal for the free flowing LB SHOULD make the tackle every time. An open field tackle is often a much higher degree of difficulty. As such.......negative plays begin with run TFL's and escalate in importance into sacks and turnovers. We isolate them because we know the statistical importance of forced negative plays in the outcome of games.

LOL...no Football players have the option of an easy academic workload almost everywhere.......but the U generally has a top 50 US rank as far as academic reputation. Very wealthy and relatively exclusive private school that sees itself more like Princeton-south than a football factory. That has been, without question, the primary problem with advancing the football program. They only want to be passively successful in sports.........it would be distasteful to try hard like some "state" school.

When you play a De-VALUED position and the team trades into the middle of round one to select you........you are going to be held to a similar standard as a VALUED position player who is selected at the very top of the draft would be. Fair or not. I loved the pick/player but not as a MLB. The Kuechly thing was more of an after-the-fact comparison...........I think people expected him to be BETTER than Kuechly because he's more of a specimen than Kuechly was.........the comp for Edmunds was Brian Urlacher. Urlacher had 18.5 sacks and 44 TFL in his first 3 seasons.........and he had been a safety in college not a MLB. The strength of Edmunds game has just been playing most of the games.........that's it.........he's accumulated tackle stats like his predecessor Preston Brown(well, almost. Preston lead the NFL in tackles in 2017).. But like Preston he has been rather pedestrian other than those bulk tackle numbers.

So the Bills DL has been the second best in the NFL at keeping their MLB clean the past 3 years? Awesome! 😉 Statistically, the most likely place for a RB to be tackled on any given play is at the LOS. If you are a volume tackler who is on the field every week for 3 straight seasons that number is going to be high. But comparable off-ball LB's Roquan Smith and Devin White had 18 TFL last year. Tremaine Edmunds had just 4.....which is VERY unimpressive.........over 200 defenders had more. And he only has 19 total TFL in his three year career. TFL + TFNG is just adding a small figure that represents big impact to a BIG number that represents participation.......and then pretending that it's all high impact. The low TFL number is just one of MANY numbers that reflect Edmunds' lack of instinctiveness as an off-ball LB.

Ozone is the best sanitizer/deodorizer. If you really want to save it just leave it open out in the sun for a few weeks. This also works for Bills gear that you don't want to ruin by over-washing.

If it's got a handle on top it's a lunch box. RIP lunch box.

Correct. That is a lunch box.

As explained by me.........the Bucs were pretty one dimensional offensively last year. They won the Super Bowl. The Chiefs were one-dimensional the year before. They won the Super Bowl. So the past 2 SB champs prove that you and "another poster" are wrong.

Nobody has ever run the ball better than the Ravens the past couple seasons and they have an elite scoring offense........and they also have a great secondary to counter the Chiefs receiving threats............but they are helpless against the Chiefs. And don't tell anybody........don't want to disrupt that narrative about the run game.........but the Bills ypc average was better than the SB champion, Chief-slaying, Bucs last year. Primarily you gotta' be able to go blow-for-blow in the pass game with KC. The rules of the game are skewed to favor those who can move the ball in the air. There are a lot of other ways to win matchups but improving the run game is well down the list. Getting out to leads running the ball doesn't deter/scare the Chiefs.

When an opponent scores on you every time they touch the ball that will take the run out of the equation regardless of how well your team runs it. Ask Tennessee who basically had the same thing happen to them in the 2019 AFCCG.........got out to a 10 point lead........Chiefs hung 28 unanswered on them as their defense couldn't hang with Mahomes and his playmakers.......game ***** over. It's a passing league. The Patriots did manage to deflate the football against them in the first half of the 2018 AFCCG but that veteran lead team was executing at a much higher level on both sides of the ball than the Bills were capable of...........and the Chiefs stormed back on them and SHOULD have won that game. It would be *nice* to improve the run game but that's not even close to the solution to beating the Chiefs.

Whether you are willing to accept it or not........the bottom line is that it's all entertainment either way. Just the threat of it happening adds drama to the season. Drama is a very popular aspect of Bills fandom........see the people who were enthralled by so many closely contested wins in 2017(even though it was because of a terrible offense). The self pity that it would derive has a market amongst the fanbase as well. And watching the contaminator(s) whine about forever being persecuted by Bills fans like a Bill Buckner and Scott Norwood rolled into one would also have long lasting great entertainment value. A focal point like that would be a great outlet for Bills fans and there would be a lot less sympathy than for players who just made a mistake in the moment. Could get VERY ugly but it wouldn't be boring.

You should try to remember that Horace Walpole quote you used to have in your sig line.

I have done this before........usually I have another reason to be in the area if I swing by the stadium........but I've gone to OP with friends in the offseason just to check out the stadium and maybe go to Bar-Bill or one of the local pizza places. The process of driving to the stadium is a very important part of the ritual for our group of tailgaters. If Bills Mafia can keep it's trajectory going toward being a fan base that transcends the NFL then there is the potential to build more of an offseason aspect into the Bills fan experience.

It's commUnitas. As in community. A place where everyone is in equal standing and with the same shared goals/objectives............which does not describe the dynamic of schools or shopping centers etc.. When we are in that stadium we are all just Bills fans. Stadiums aren't going away whether you can grasp the concept of why or not.

Easy for a 2021 Chiefs fan to like the Bills.........they've owned them almost annually on the field since Andy Reid was hired......the only exception was the 2017 win in KC........and McDermott literally traded them their franchise savior. The early 90's Chiefs fan wouldn't have liked the Bills AT ALL.........the Bills were blocking them and beating them in the playoffs...........and the treatment Chiefs fans got at that AFCCG game in Buffalo was HARSH. They rolled up in buses expecting a civil contest......I remember seeing the female fans with their sewing kits and such😂.........and they walked into a buzzsaw of drunken, entitled Bills fans. There was much complaining from the KC area about the welcome they got from Bills fans at that game. The tables have turned..........Bills fans were whining about the arrogance of KC fans and players after last year's season ending debacle.

Unreal, isn't it?

By the same token...........the people who claim he played a lot of 1 tech ("out of position") last season have no clue what the hell they were actually looking at either. And that is a rather large contingent of people, which is sad to say in this era of all-22. The Bills did a lot of experimenting early in the season where they were rotating all the DT's in and out of 1 tech. That KC game was just a weird all-in-on pass rush gameplan that blew up on them when Reid ran it down their throats.........but the last 9-10 games they played(including playoffs) Phillips and Butler were the established 1 techs and consistently drew double teams, as the 1 tech is aligned strategically to do. Nobody on the line stood out for exceptional play last year though...........it was a developmental year without an offseason for young DL Oliver, Epenesa and Johnson and Phillips was just working his way back. The free agents all underwhelmed. I expect a significant improvement from all the young DL this season even if Rousseau and Basham are just the 2021 version of the 2020 Epenesa and Johnson of this year's DL. Oliver was very solid but obviously has a couple more levels that he can reach.