vincec

Imagine if it was Rob Johnson.

Wade Phillips was available in 1989 but the Bills were happy with Corey. Wade went to Denver instead. No he wasn't. He was a very good player but not a HOF. Of course the HOF has become so watered down with guys like Doleman, Martin and Kennedy getting in that I suppose Smerlas was as good as them.

I guess I just don't understand what you're saying. Are you claiming that: a) you don't have to be in control of the ball in order to throw a pass and that anytime someone flips, batts or throws a ball forward it is a pass? b) Fitz did have control of the ball when his arm started moving forward so it was a pass? c) The QB windup is part of the act of passing so Fitz initiated his pass with control when he started his windup? d) Maintaining contact with the ball is all you need to do to demonstrate control, so even though the ball started coming out of Fitz's hand during his windup he didn't completely lose it until he had already started throwing the ball forwad. e) Something else. I also don't understand your point about the hand not having to move forward. If you are throwing the ball backwards then isn't it a lateral? The ball has to be moving forward for it to be a forward pass doesn't it?

Also, all things being equal I think a dominant DL is better to have than a dominant DB because they impact more plays. Defensive lineman are key both vs the run and pass, while DBs are much less important vs the run and are easier to scheme against. I like the Dareus pick very much. The only guy better in that draft would've been Cam Newton, IMO.

Come on. Here is the rule in it's entirety: Link The items I mentioned are listed directly under the definition of forward pass, not under some special section. The section first explains when a pass is forward (as opposed to a lateral, and then explains when a quarterback is considered to have made a forward pass, which concerns us here). How can you possible claim based on the definition above, which clearly states that the QB has to be in control of the ball when making a forward pass, that Fitz was making a forward pass? You're grasping at straws.

It's because people want respect before they've done anything to earn it. Win a few games against some quality teams and the Bills will start getting some respect. Question: What's Buffalo's record vs teams with a winning record over the past few years? I doubt it's too good. That alone would say to me that they're a bottom half team until they prove otherwise.

Did you watch this guy during training camp and the pre-season? I'm surprised he made the team. I've never been a big Pears fan but I'd give the guy a few more weeks to work his way back after his injury. He really didn't get much preparation before the season started and I'm not sure he was even 100% physically for game 1.

Nice.

Whether or not you have control of the ball is the fundamental criteria in determining if you have fumbled. Once you lose control of the ball you have fumbled. Fitz lost control of the ball and fumbled. He wasn't in the act of passing when he fumbled. What happened to the ball after he fumbled (lost control of it) is just as irrelevant as what happens when a RB fumbles it. Forward, backwards, sideways. It doesn't matter. It's a fumble. And since you're cherry picking the rulebook, you forgot this one: Rule 8, Section 1, Article 1: "When a player is in control of the ball and attempting to pass it forward, any intentional movement of his hand starts a forward pass." Fitz was not in control when his arm starting moving forward, therefore it was not a pass.

Exactly. First the equipment manager and now the punter. The Bills are serious! Who's next the chef?

Me too.

You can lose control of the ball and still be in contact with it. Happens all the time to running backs and receivers when they fumble. Until the arm starts moving forward with control of the ball, it's not a forward pass. So Fitz lost control of the ball on the windup and then propelled it forward as he tried to throw after he had already lost control. So it wasn't a pass. It was a fumble. Basically, if you lose control of the ball on your windup it is a fumble. If you lose control after you start your forward throwing motion then it's a forward pass. That is correct. See above. After you start your forward motion with control of the ball you are in the process of passing, so if you lose control of the ball either on your own or because someone hits you then it's an incomplete pass. The act of passing ends when the ball leaves your hand or when you "tuck" it back into your other hand. This is the "tuck" rule. It's all pretty straight forward really. That was a fumble both technically and practically.

Who doesn't?

That is exactly why.

And then the following year he went to Minnesota and had an MVP type season and brought them to the brink of the Super Bowl. So I guess that year with the Jets didn't mean what you propose after all.

But how many have won championships? (Assuming that's our goal here one day)

I could not disagree with you more. Fitz is what he is... a career looser. He is not a rookie. This is his 8th year in the league and 5th as a starter and he has never led a team to a winning record. He's not suddenly going to turn into an elite QB. Newton has much more ability and has the promise of turning into something. Even as he is right now he's probably just as good or better than Fitz.

... or to get out the anointing oil. But he sure looks promising. Was this sarcasm? It sounds like you are saying that you would rather have Fitz at QB than Newton.

He's not in the league because he doesn't want to be a backup and because everyone wants a young, cheap prospect as their backup not a 41 year old vet. He's obviously not a long term solution, but neither is Fitz. I'm sure he's as good as or better than most backup caliber QBs in he league, Fitz included. Players of his ability don't just forget how to play overnight.

This is it pretty much. Everyone knows that the Bills are going nowhere without strong QB play and I think confidence in Fitz is at an all time low. Even is last weeks win he was really pretty mediocre. IF he can light it up this week then you'll probably see some optimism return.

I know that this Brett Favre / troll thread has turned into a Flutie bashing thread, but I would just like to say that if Brett Favre is 75% of what he was then he is still better than Fitz. And has just as much of a future as a starting QB.

I'm not sure what world you live in, but someone who makes $465,000 per year is rich. That's 10x what the average american makes by your own data. And comparing fines by using a straight percentage is a false comparison because the impact of a 4.5% fine on someone who makes $465,000 is much less than on someone who makes $46,000. Whey you only have $46k to make it through the year, $2,100 is a big chunk of change but when you have $465k and have to pay $21,000 then you still have $444k to play with, which is still 10x what the average person has.

Nice

I didn't know Rene Zellweger was a Raiders fan. Classic.

It means that Cleveland will be tough to pass against and very dangerous in the INT department. Bills better find a way to run the ball.