Thurman#1

Nah, that was actually a pretty good look. Know what a genuinely selfish guy does there? He doesn't even think those things, much less say them out loud. Did we ever hear T.O. saying stuff like that? This is a young kid growing up. And there's no indication whatsoever there that he was dogging it. The concerns about Sammy are production, injuries and the price it would take to bring him in.

Yeah, but they didn't trade for what the pick turns into They traded for the pick. The pick itself. Which has a pretty specific value. Again, it's not an unknown. It's #56. It's 340 points on the chart. How Beane and McDermott use the pick will be a totally different series of decisions. And those will be worthy of praise or censure. But it won't be the trade people will be talking about, it will be the decision on who to draft. Same as if you spend $500 to buy stock in a company that goes bankrupt. It wasn't the $500 in cash that was the problem. Spend that same $500 on Apple's first public offering in 1980 and become a zillionaire. It won't be the brilliant move of how you earned the $500 people will be talking about. If people do mention the trade it'll be a "and coincidentally, the pick which got them [the player] was from the Sammy Watkins trade. An interesting coincidence, yeah?" kind of mention.

No, you're misreading this, and at this point, willfully. He wasn't aiming this at everybody. He aimed it very specifically at the people on twitter attacking him for having injury problems. And yeah, to my eyes it was still a bad look for him. But if posting stupidly or rudely on social media were something only stupid rude arrogant people did, the internet would be a much much nicer place.

Nonsense. Sammy gave everything he had. He had major injury problems throughout his time here and his effectiveness was hurt by that, but you can't find one teammate, coach or person from OBD who will say anything like what you're saying here. It's all fans saying this stuff, the people who don't know.

No, a 2nd round pick is NOT an unknown. This particular one, for instance, is precisely #56. What's unknown is how well or poorly the picks will be used. But that's beside the point. We know the value of the pick. That pick isn't worth any less if they bollix it and pick a bust any more than your $50,000 is worth nothing if somebody cons you out of it or if you buy a lemon of a Porsche with it. That's your problem. The money's still worth $50K. In exactly the same way, that pick will have been worth 340 points on the draft value chart. That was it's value, that's what it was worth in the trade. Gaines this last year plus teh 2018 #56 pick is absolutely better than Sammy this last year.

"To all the people that have a problem with me being injured you guys go out there and play this sport it’s a 100% injury rate,” Watkins wrote. “I’m not first or last person that’s gone be injured difference from me and you guys y’all mad and I’m not get a life and goto work stop worrying about my job because I’m good on this end and forever will be losers most of you just wish to be in this position so continue working y’all little jobs for the rest of y’all lives since everyone once a response here go one have a blessed day.” Watkins later posted, then deleted, a clarification on Twitter: “Message wasn’t for fans for whomever have a problem with athletes being injured.” https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/28/bills-watkins-to-fans-continue-working-yall-little-jobs-for-the-rest-of-yall-lives When you cut out that part it looks far worse than it was. Not a great look. Awkward, looked small, should never have been posted. But also not a big deal.

I'll repeat: "And yeah, it's the 2nd round pick that's the difference. A pick's worth isn't determined by how well it's used. It's determined by what someone would give for it at the time at draft time. Gaines this last year plus a 2nd is absolutely better than Sammy this last year. Who they pick will be a reflection on how talented and lucky our draft team is, not on how much the pick was worth." And the number of snaps Gaines played was mostly due to a knee injury that kept him out three or four games. Would've been nice if he'd stayed healthy, but he played a lot and when he played, he played very well. He forced three fumbles and had an INT. There's a reason he is going to get good enough money that we aren't expecting to be able to get him back. Also worth noting that of the three games in a row in which our defense was absolutely shelled, the Jets, Saints and Chargers games on Nov. 2nd to the 19th, Gaines missed the first two and returned from injury for the 3rd, the Chargers, which was probably his worst game. Was that because he wasn't healthy yet? Dunno, but he started playing much better quite quickly. But again, it's the 2nd round pick that makes this a big win for the Bills.

Yeah, we won it. Absolutely. And yeah, it's the 2nd round pick that's the difference. A pick's worth isn't determined by how well it's used. It's determined by what someone would give for it at the time at draft time. Gaines this last year plus a 2nd is absolutely better than Sammy this last year. The stuff about Sammy being selfish is a dust fleck on a molehill, but he still has serious questions about injuries and just about pure production. Not to mention how much he'll cost. Who they pick will be a reflection on how talented and lucky our draft team is, not on how much the pick was worth.

Huge? No, I think you're right. Big, maybe. People were very unsure whether he might or might not be franchised, which would have been a $15.982 mill hit. You're right that he hasn't done a lot but someone might pay him for potential. That's my guess. I'd love to get him back, but not at the salary I think he's going to manage to get.

Just looking at the first year, Harmon and Pike were not misses. Oh, nor Rolle. For a 7th, Rolle had an excellent career. And how can you list a guy like Richard Harvey as a failure. The guy was drafted in the 11th round and had a pretty solid 11 year career. And the percentages are always going to be lower when you look at someone who was picking in 12 round drafts than for somebody who was picking in 7 round drafts. It's also a lot harder drafting for a team that's doing a lot of winning. There are fewer roster spaces available because the team is already good, and you're drafting much later in the round. It's just harder. Polian was a terrific GM and drafter. It was very impressive there too until he handed the draft over to his son for the last three or so years of the Polian administration there.

Sure, that's what they want. They also want a guy with Allen's arm and Darnold's ability to improvise and Rosen's ability to go through reads and throw from the pocket and Jackson's ability to run. But realistically, what you need to put you in a position where you have a chance to be competitive for a title every year (a chance, not that you'll actually be there every year but a chance) is a guy who's in the top 10 or 12 QBs in the league. That's the kind of guy we have to be thinking we have a reasonable chance at getting. But as for those QBs you're referring to being unicorns, nah. You're referring to the elite guys, IMHO, the top five or six. Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Ryan, and maybe one or two more. None of them will get you there with a bad team but all of the can get you close with a team without major weaknesses.

A support system for a QB without a QB is like an umbilical cord with no fetus. You can build a support system anytime. The moments when you have a chance to bring in a really good QB are very few and far between and must be treasured and taken advantage of.

From your mouth to God's ear, Gunner. Nice work. Cracked me up. Nice catch.

6th highest scoring offense in the league? No. In Tyrod's years here, the Bills have ranked 22nd (2017, 18.9 PPG), tied for 10th/11th (2016, 24.9 PPG), and 12th (2015, 23.7 PPG). And again, scoring is best understood not as an offensive stat but as a team stat. Offense gets maybe 70 - 80% of the credit, but defense and STs can actually score and have a huge hand in scoring opportunities in terms of field position. During that year you're I suppose referring to, we ranked around 10th in scoring by STs/defense and also 11th in drive start field position. While giving back to the defense the 23rd-worst field position. The offense had a lot of help that year.

That's fine, but you're using the words "franchise QB" in a completely different way than most people do. Use them that way and you're going to have bad communication with nearly everyone you talk with. Most people would use "franchise QB" in a way that would mean that there are probably 10 - 18 or so of them. If you're using it to pick out only two guys and you want people to understand you, most people would probably say something like, "the best of the elite QBs," something like that.

Not really because his completion percentage was significantly over 60% in college. Yeah, against a lower level of competition, but he rang up good stats and play against them. Allen's sub-60% against that lower level is indeed a serious concern. Personally, I don't want him. If they draft him I'll cheer for him but I have enough doubts that I'm rooting for that not to happen.

I'd have loved to see us get Cousins. He's good enough to make a good team Super Bowl competitive right away. And yeah his salary will be tough to pay. A smart team will be able to get around it. Having said that, we have no idea whether teams have been put on or off the list because they wanted to be there or for whatever reasons Cousins wanted. The latter seems likely. In any case, this was never a likely way for the Bills to go. They've said from minute one that they believe in building through the draft, they've sliced salaries from the first minute they got here, and they both come from a very fiscally conservative team and have said nothing but fiscally conservative things. They have always been unlikely to build with Cousins. I think Cousins would have been terrific here, but that's not the way the process works. And then when he did decide he wanted him, Cousins was no longer interested. He's said that he wants to go somewhere he's comfortable and wanted. Seems like when he felt comfortable, the team wasn't yet convinced and that when they really wanted him, the GM/owner/coach weren't able to get Cousins back interested. Horrible way to handle this by Washington. They did the best they could with a terrible situation by bringing in Smith. But they screwed things up there bad.

Maybe. As of yet, the stats would not indicate that. But it could certainly be true. I thought if Sammy stayed healthy he was going to rip it up in L.A. But not so much yet. We shall see.

Nicely put.

Yup. And they'll be using all 8 even if they trade up and get a QB. Which is by far their biggest need. There'll never be a year that losing picks in a tradeup won't hurt. It always hurts. And there'll never be a year when "everyone is [not] slobbering over QBs of this caliber." That's what happens to QBs of this caliber. Or anywhere close, really. If there's any way for them to get a guy they want out of those top three or four guys from a tradeup, they should do it. If it's for some reason impossible, trade back and stockpile an extra first or two for next year. We need a QB. If it somehow absolutely doesn't work out this year, make it so it's possible next year.

Love this. Smart. Hard-working. Doesn't just snap back a word or two that everybody loves. I've always liked Rosen a lot and now I like him more. Love that he shut up and worked his butt off early. He gets it. Don't think that's ever been the problem. He won't fit some teams. Some teams want QBs who only talk football and even then only in platitudes. He won't fit those teams. He will make headlines about stuff outside football. If you can't stand that, you won't want Rosen. From what I've seen, McD and Beane wouldn't care, but it's not like I know them and we're still figuring out just what their process entails. I'd guess they wouldn't mind, but it's hard to say.

Sure. But it doesn't have to all be done in one year. And yeah, it would be a solid haul. But they've already got like three solid hauls worth to use. I'm usually a huge fan of trading down. I want the Bills to do it every year but this one. Trade up for a QB, Bills. The Browns, IMHO, should do two things. They should bring in two impact players, including their QB. And they should start a treadmill of picks that will put them in premium draft spots every year by trading down for one or two really good picks next year. This year, they're OK. I don't think I have too major a disagreement with you here. I love trading down usually. I just think they already have so much they just need to use it this year. Bring in six or seven or eight players in one year and four years down the line after you've developed your guys you can't keep them all because you can't afford them. Your GM is saying, "We have to give second contracts to our QB. And he's not working with us yet, so there goes our franchise tag, maybe. And we also have to sign our second-best defensive player after Garrett, our LT, two of our OL starters and three of our LBs. We don't have the cap space, two-thirds of them will have to go." You have to spread 'em out.

They are more than one QB away. But they don't have to trade away anything to get the QB they want. He'll be there at #1. And they aren't a team looking to be ready to get to the Super Bowl this year. They'll need to make major improvements this year to keep Hue employed but if they win five or six games and are competitive with most of their schedule it will still be a major improvement. And they're already stocked up on picks. They don't need to stock up on more, not for long-term growth. Just as important, if not more so with their wealth of picks, to get a few real prime talents. And while I didn't watch a single Browns game and don't know what to think about Kizer, I do see that just by the stats he got better as the year went along. I mean, in his first seven games he had two games rated over 50 at passer rating. That's awful. But in the remaining nine games only two games below 50. Had games of 99, 98, 86, 73 and 66. Dunno if he's going to be any good, but as I say, plenty of bad rookie QBs become good players.

Not that I expect Sammy to be back, or am dying for him. But he was a good teammate and nobody except a few fans on forums ever had much problem with Sammy as a teammate or a person.

That 2nd round pick could very easily be a key part in a tradeup for a QB. And no, Benjamin's injury history isn't anything near as bad as Sammy's. Sammy's had a bunch of different injuries, never very often seeming fully healthy, while Benjamin has essentially had one injury. It was a bad one, but he hasn't been often injured. Sammy = high risk http://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/sammy-watkins/6937 Benjamin = low risk http://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/kelvin-benjamin/6952 And yeah, the Bills gave up a 3rd and a 6th for Benjamin. And while the 3rd could theoretically come back to haunt them with it's absence, we had two thirds at the time and still have one. And a 3rd is simply worth less than a 2nd. And they made that net gain for a guy who has been just about as prolific as Sammy, game for game but will cost around $10 million less next year and who last year saved the Bills nearly $2 mill on the cap compared to what Sammy would have if they'd kept him. Benjamin is under contract to the Bills for another year at $8.459 mill while Sammy may either be let go or franchised at around $17 mill. He saved money against the cap last year, he will be kept with major savings next year, they still have the 2nd they acquired for Sammy to trade for a QB and it looks like it could well be an integral part of the deal, assuming there is one. And he has a much less consistent history of injury. So, yeah, really.