Thurman#1

"The Bills are trying to keep him, and it’s Brown’s preference to stay if they hit his price." Nothing wrong with any of this.

He's gone.

Compared with nobody was he broke. Compared with other owners he was less stratospherically wealthy. But that was related largely to macro-economic reasons, the U.S. economy, the large number of tech billionaires in the last 20 - 30 years, inflation rates, etc. The industries he made his fortune in also did not have a lot of billionaires come out of them. Yeah, the wild explosion in the value of teams accounted for most of his wealth. But he started out by doing very very well in a variety of areas, oil and gas, insurance, even trucking and concrete paving. He was simply an excellent business man, a guy who knew how to run businesses so they would make money.

Anytime you limit your options you run the risk of hurting the team. But at the time, more than half the teams in the NFL were running cash to cap systems. It wasn't a big deal. CBA Fan explained it best, above. Signing bonuses were amortized normally. But they didn't write any more checks that year, for all player outlays (signing bonuses, roster bonuses, incentives and salaries) than a total of whatever the cap was that year. Their actual cash outlays were never higher than the cap. Cash to cap. Smoothed out the accounting ups and downs for the organization itself. Made it much less likely they'd ever get in cap jail either the way the team looked at it, or the way the NFL looked at it. Several people above are saying that they wouldn't give normal signing bonuses that were amortized. That's a bit misleading. They were normal deals. The NFL, in constructing their salary cap situation figures for each team, looked at them the way they looked at any signing bonus, as amortized across the years of the contract. Of course, the Bills kept charts on that as well, since the NFL is the ref of the salary cap system. But teams that ran cash to cap never had cap problems with the league, their decision process rewarded decisions that kept the NFL figure low. But through a cash to cap lens, a $20 million signing bonus, since it was a cash outlay, was put down by the Bills as all against this year's cash outlay. So they would subtract $20 mill from the amount of cash that they would outlay for the rest of that year.

Yeah, he's purely expressing an opinion here. And he never pretends otherwise. Same with Carucci. And yet you're still attacking Gabriel. And not only did you attack the messenger in your first post but you're doing an excellent job of continuing here. The way to NOT attack the messenger is to talk about what he said rather than him. It's really a very simple thing.

I wouldn't mind Mayfield either.

Love your guarantee. Do the wrong thing, Bills!! Do what this guy says is the wrong thing!!! I do remeber Fitz, but he never had a season like this one by Keenum. A TD% fo 4.6 and an INT % of 1.5? When Fitz's numbers get up towards a full season and teams have the video on him, you find he has decent TD%s and poor INT%s. Same with Cassel, look at his INT percentages. I'm not sure at all about Keenum, though I tend to like him and hope he maintains this level. I'd guess that he stays close but I really don't have any commitment behind that belief. It's a bad year to be an FA QB with so many good FAs out there on top of the good QB year in the draft. A very bad year. But I still think Keenum gets a lot more than this. I could be wrong.

Their guy might be one guy. Or two. Or three. I suppose more, though I doubt it. Depends on what their scouts think. If they think three guys are gonna stand a really good chance and would fit the system they're implementing in Buffalo, then they should go with that. No particular reason to artificially limit their options. The scouts tell you what to think. You don't tell them how many good players you want to hear about. Most years it would be one guy. This year it could easily be more.

For nothing. They're probably the #1 strategy on these boards re: press reports, but as anyone who knows a thing about logic knows, the attack the messenger fallacy - used a bunch of times already in this thread - has absolutely zero logical or argumentative efficacy. None whatsoever, and yet people consistently use it, sadly. Exactly.

I would absolutely love to be in the Browns position. Absolutely love it. They're sitting pretty and look in terrific shape. And the problem wasn't spending too many picks on one position. It was choosing the wrong guys. Picking Manziel for instance, was just dumb. Now they look set to spend yet another high pick on the same position and become a consistent winner for a decade or two.

Nor was Peyton Manning. No such thing as a lock. It wouldn't be a wild gamble whatsoever. It would be a thoughtful, intelligent, considered gamble. If they do it. My guess is they will if they can, if the one or two guys that they are - you'd have to guess - specifically interested in are available. They likely got those picks specifically to get a QB if the situation was right. They won't be bankrupting their future even if they're wrong.

Nice post.

While some of your arguments make a lot of sense, Daboll isn't thought of as a bad OC choice. Just the opposite, he has a terrific reputation as a smart guy with success in a lot of places, including Alabama and New England. Nobody's going to hold a bad year in KC with Matt Cassel as the QB against him. Nobody. Our bridge QB will likely be signed before the draft. He won't know if or when we will draft someone. And teams that will bring him in could all draft someone. The bottom line is this, it'll depend where the chips fall. There are so probably gonna be so many good FA QBs available this year after Minny makes their decisions that it's an unusual year. There isn't usually a Cousins out there for FA QBs to compete against, nor such a number of good draft QBs that teams like the Giants, Denver, Cleveland etc. might or might not be committed to. It's gonna be a bit of a tough year for FAs, even pretty good ones. They're not gonna be able to sit back and take only the best opportunities. And the problem with Tyrod is he isn't a good bridge. He just isn't. A good bridge QB allows you to input the offense you want to run after the bridge guy is gone. Tyrod doesn't do that as shown by the tidal wave of "we need to change the offense to fit Tyrod's skills" choruses last year. That's not who you want as a bridge. As a backup or a team that believes in him as a longer-term starter, Tyrod's style would be a good match. As a bridge, no. As a bridge on a team that wants to run a system that requires a guy who can throw from the pocket, emphatically absolutely decisively no. The last thing you want is a guy who'll cause you to spend $23 mill in cap for one year's service and then make you change the playbook if you expect him to have success. The very last thing. You may well be right that we end up with a cheap bridge guy rather than an expensive one. Very possible. But it could also happen the other way.

Love seeing that great old memory again. But yeah, the Sammy thing was a huge failure. I guess you can argue that the shot wasn't the miss, the assist (the trade) was. Fair enough. But overall a huge failure. Not a lot of question about that at this point.

We have a large amount of cap space in 2019 largely because we don't have anybody really under contract. Once we start to construct a team we'll see what our space actually looks like. Right now we have no idea. It's like the guy in October saying "Man, my budget for next year looks fantastic. I haven't committed to spending almost anything. I'm gonna save a ton, ignoring the fact that his present lease runs out in December, he hasn't got a place to live, a car, any insurance ... Sometimes a lot of future cap space is a fantastic thing. Other times it just means you haven't begun to make commitments to people yet. That's what it means for us. Leaving off guys like Tyrod and Wood, who are still listed but will actually be gone, here's what we have under contract: Cordy Glenn Jerry Hughes McCoy Charles Clay Micah Hyde Jordan Poyer Shaq Lawson Hauschka Tre White Patrick DiMarco Ducasse Andre Holmes Zay Jones Dion Dawkins Adolphus Washington Matt Milano Nathan Peterman That's not the core of a team, it just isn't. Don't get me wrong, there are a few more but the guys above are the ones who we'll be building around. For the record, here are the rest: Marcus Murphy, Tanner Vallejo, Keith Towbridge, Breon Borders, Nordly Capi, Conor McDermott, Brandon Reilly, De'Ondre Wesley, Xavier Woodson-Luster, Cory Carter, Jason Croom, Malachi Dupre, Aaron Green, Rickey Hatley, Josh James, Marquavius Lewis and Adam Redmond. So if you look at this whole group, do you see an o-line? A D-line? An LB corps? A QB? WRs? I certainly see our starting safeties and maybe a TE if they continue with mostly a one-TE attack, if they stay healthy, but beyond that? The reason we have a lot of space is because we don't have a team yet for that year. You look at who Philly already has under contract for 2019 and you're like, dang, that's a very good team already. Not us. We just don't know who we'll be.

Yup. But that's what low-cost FA is for. Fill the holes with cheap to mid-priced journeymen. Then build through the draft. Personally, I don't expect much next year. We're not likely to get so lucky with an easy schedule and the tough teams all being faced during the worst streaks of their seasons. I don't see success next year. Just a chance to continue putting together the team that should start to look good soon.

Yeah, you were indeed putting out a dumb stat for my arse, a completely irrelevant stat which had zero to do with anything I'd said. You misread my post, got irritated, refused to admit it and now your panties are so wadded up you're discussing me with other people and actually agreeing with Transplant. I've said again and again i"m not especially a Siemian fan. Just think in many ways he's a better option than Tyrod, as are many others. You just misread me and now your ego's all involved. Fine, guess I know who you are now.

The "cap impact" of having a guy is how much he costs. Period. What you're talking about doesn't have a one-word name. It's the cap impact of keeping him over letting him go. "Cap difference," maybe, something like that. Tyrod's cap impact, if they keep him for 2018, will be $23 mill. And the cap impact of keeping Tyrod over letting him go, the number you're referring to is still far far too high. Asked for what a QB needed to do to be his QB, McD said one thing. Not a list of many. One. You've got to be able to throw from the pocket. They gave Tyrod a chance and he proved he couldn't. So yeah, the cap impact of keeping him is too high for a guy who doesn't meet the one requirement they have. One requirement. Oh, and you're assuming - completely wrongly - that because that's what Siemian is now he can't get a lot better. He can. He might. Plenty of guys do around their fourth year. I agree he'd be a downgrade from Taylor but sometimes downgrades are OK. A down grade from sub-mediocre to even further sub-mediocre isn't going to make a big difference. What really is going to make a big difference is the probably $10 mill difference in their salaries. Oh, and first, if you don't think there's a pretty decent chance that "we'll pay the bonus" thing is to try to get teams to trade before the deadline, we'll have to disagree. I agree I didn't think of the possibility that they'd try to "buy" a draft pick by paying the $6 mill in hopes that someone would trade after. No question paying that bonus makes him a far more desirable trade target. IMHO the chances of Tyrod being on our roster this year have gone up, a very small amount. It could easily be to create demand, but who knows. If he's actually gets the bonus the Bills will have the upper hand in trade talks. HIs value might go up a bit as well. It was an interesting move.

Let me say this more clearly the second time around. Did I say that I am dying to get Siemian? Or that he's the best option? Or anything like that? You responded as if I said something I simply never did. Again, reading's your friend.

Reading is your friend.

Know who's "a momentary placeholder at best"? Tyrod. Siemian on the other hand is young enough that he might actually improve. We know what Tyrod is. Agreed Siemian isn't exceptional at all, but he's a third-year guy, Siemian might get better. Here's the other thing. Tyrod's cap impact for one year of play in 2018: $23 million in 2018 and 2019. Ridiculously overpriced. Siemian's cap impact for one year of play in 2018: much much much less. We could probably get him for his real value, unlike Tyrod. I'm no big Siemian fan. But he's someone a team will bring in with a very reasonable hope of making him into a decent backup or hoping to get lucky and see great improvement. I wouldn't mind us doing that, though I doubt we would.

Pass on the keep Tyrod part. Bring in an FA QB who fits the system so everyone can work in the system they want to run, not to mention because $23 mill in cap for one year of Tyrod (yup, there'll be dead money after he leaves next year if he is on the roster in 2018) is insane. But other than that, yeah, you have to suffer some pain to get a highly ranked guy. I think you're confusing suffering and future suffering, at least in the sense he was referring to. Sure trading away picks is suffering. It means you can't pick some guys you'd absolutely love to get. In the same way that spending a lot of money when you have a very limited supply is suffering, so is trading away a bunch of picks. The pain of sacrifice. But yeah, of course you're right that sometimes trading away those picks makes you happy in the long run, same as spending a lot of money might buy you something you end up really happy with. This thread appears to have gotten a little wacky but his OP is correct. Yeah, you gotta suffer one way or the other if you want to get a highly ranked QB. And getting one of those guys is the best way to maximize your chances of getting a very good QB. It's not the only way, but it's certainly the best chance.

I get why people wouldn't want him. But there's a very legit argument either way. He's had three years in the league. The light could still turn on. Not saying it will, but it's still well within the time when that happens with young QB with fair regularity.

Is there any chance it's a fake account? Or is this an account that's been around for a long time and is dependable? I kinda hope it's a fake. Nutty, otherwise.

We've got a reasonable shot up to #4 or #5. Any of the QBs could be in play. The likelihood is that two will be gone but it could be one. No way to be sure which one. Which cerebral pocket passer have we got a real shot to get? All of them. Some more likely than others, but Mayfield and maybe Cousins would likely be available. Throw in next year's number one and we might even trade up to #2. Pretty much anything could happen. Yeah, it's likely Darold or Rosen will be gone, but Kiper has Allen as #1 and Mayock has him as the #2 QB. You just don't know. If we're willing to make a really strong move up, we could get nearly any of them. The question is whether we're willing to make that strong move or pay that salary for Cousins. If you've got the money, a trip to Belize and a pony aren't all that crazy a dream. The Bills have the money, or the capital anyway.