Thurman#1

Certainly that happens with some, but plenty of other men with outstanding careers walk away just fine. Agreed that a major adjustment is coming for him, and for anyone who retires, really. IMHO Cosell didn't lose much near the end, he just went out of fashion.

It's an idea that has always sounded great, but the owners weren't willing to pay for it in NFL Europe or anywhere else.

Tyrod refused a contract extension to remain a backup? In Baltimore, you're saying? LINK? What I've seen is the exact opposite, that they didn't offer him a contract, instead just letting him walk. As for guys extended beyond their rookie contract when they haven't been proven to be a worthwhile contributor, Jeff Hostetler, for one. 29 passes thrown in his first five years. Recent guys? How about Garoppolo? Had he "proven" himself in the two games he started in NE? Half the boards here didn't want him last off-season when getting him was discussed. I wanted him, but the doubt about his abilities was legit. But the Pats offered him several second contracts which he refused.

Smith was in his sixth year of play, not his seventh when he had that great season. Seven years in the league and one completely lost to injury from a failed previous surgery. There's a lot of evidence that he had been held back as successfully as if they'd been actually trying to screw him. Six new OCs (Mike McCarthy, Norv Turner, Jim Hostler, Mike Martz -Smith missed the whole season- Jimmy Raye, Mike Johnson) in his first six years on the roster and five years of play? That's insane!!! But Smith still had to take a pay cut in a restructure to stay on the roster after the first four years. Bradford was out of STL after four years.

Keenum's season was not an example of GMs being right, it was him playing like a top ten guy. One bad game when under a lot of pressure doesn't mean he's not a very good QB. We'll find out next year. My guess is that he's arrived and it wasn't a freak year.

That's nonsense. There's no proof whatsoever that that blown whistle was in error. No camera angle shows where the hands were when he got possession. And if there's no conclusive evidence from all the cameras going over it in super slo-mo, there's no reason to think it was a bad call. Yeah, the tapes were destroyed in Spygate, probably to end the controversy. And then came Deflategate which appears to have been a makeup call for Spygate with the evidence not supporting the penalty. I thought the Pats were guilty there too but there is no conclusive evidence. A makeup call. Which made sense to me, personally, the Pats deserved it. But there is no conspiracy except the conspiracy to imagine a conspiracy.

So Steve Tasker must also be a cheater because the Tasker rule about running out of bounds was created for him? Yeah, the Pats cheat. More than most teams. Makes sense to hate them, IMHO, and to doubt them on nearly everything. But there is no wide-ranging conspiracy with the rest of the league trying to support the Patriots and the owners going along with it to the detriment of their own team's chances. Wide-ranging conspiracies ... get widely blown open with some of those in the know talking. Human nature. Some official would write a book for the money.

They won't because every dynasty in every sport is accused of getting no calls and questionable calls. And they do to some degree, especially at home. So did Jordan, Bird, Magic, the Yankees and so on. It's a simple result of human psychology. They won't because this is business as usual, and not just in sports. They won't because there is no conspiracy, just Patriots hate and frustration. I hate 'em too, but conspiracy mania is a sickness and requires the willingness to ignore the way the world works.

No particular reason to think so except that you want to believe it. He certainly does seem conflicted about football. May well have been a mutual decision or a decision he didn't mind. No way to know but nobody on the inside is saying anything different. CTE and the level of connection to head trauma is a relatively new find. When I was a lad back in the late Paleolithic Era, we were pretty sure football caused health problems but it was generally assumed it would be joint problems, back problems, knee problems, etc. If I were a broadcaster, I would absolutely love being compared to Cosell. He was an all-time great. I loved listening to the guy, especially when he went off-trail. Loved his stuff right up to the end. I live overseas and haven't kept track of Costas, but as the guy you replied to said, I'm a major Peter King fan, and love when he too talks about stuff other than football. If you don't, fair enough, but there's nothing wrong with it.

Interesting. Hadn't really thought of that but you could be right. On the other hand, much better to get the new guy in and get him watching film and developing for a year ... if possible. Could go either way, I guess. But the Giants won't be sure to get the #2 pick next year. That'll weigh heavy in their deliberations.

In 2015, Teddy's fourth-quarter totals were 66.4% completions, a very good 7.46 YPC, 3 TDs and 2 INTs and a rating of 90. Last two minutes of a half he completed 60.9% for a low 6.22 YPA, but 5 TDs and 2 INTs and a rating of 90.8 Those are his splits from ESPN. And that was as a 2nd year man. That can't be understated. Tyrod got to Buffalo and started starting in his fifth year. He had a major head start, but didn't use it well.

Keenum doesn't sign for Glennon money, $15 mill a year, or rather if I'm Keenum, I sure don't sign for that. Not even close. When has Glennon ever had a year like Keenum just had? Hell when has Glennon ever had a year like Bridgewater's 2015? He hasn't. This is Keenum's time to cash in. Someone will give him good money and if they don't he won't sign long-term, I suspect. And Teddy doesn't sign a backup deal as it would make him more likely to be the backup. I can see them trying to sign both and maybe even succeeding, but they're going to have to spend to do it, IMHO. So if the Vikes don't give him that deal, which could certainly happen, if I'm Teddy, I say, "So long, and thanks for all the fish," and I go out looking for offers. My bet is somebody gives him a contract somewhere in the $17 - $20 range. I would like it to be Buffalo, and for the Bills to also draft someone high. Teddy had a really good 2015, as a second-year guy. We don't know what his ceiling is but he likely hasn't reached it if his knee is OK, and it probably is. My guess is they keep Keenum and decide they can't afford both.

Ah, OK, no issue then. People thought he was less than 6'1" but he's not 5'10". It can change. Guys grow up. Or some do, anyway.

Costas is great. Although to be honest I haven't seen him in years, he was always classy and smart. And he stands a good chance of being right about concussions and football. Their loss. Hope their team, whoever they are, does a good job.

Difference being in those two games, Tyrod had identical stat lines for completions, TDs and INTs. In both of those games he went 9 for 18, 0 TDs and 1 INT. Wilson that game completed 2/3 of his passes, 14/21, and had 2 TDs and 0 INTs. Bit of a difference there. beyond the difference between 93 for Wilson in ONE game and Taylor's TWO games of 56 and 65 yards. You can also see how Wilson's passer rating in that game, 107.8, looks a bit better than those two games for Tyrod of 33.6 and 35.6. Just saying. I do agree with what Whitewalker is saying, that both are fine backups and fringe starters. I'd argue Foles is better, though and would have been cheaper. Not that I was jumping on the table for him. But for Foles' bad year in STL, it was still his fourth year in the league, and he was in a new system. He appears to have improved since then.

John, you say, "Once again ... it's not that Gilmore didn't deserve his contract ..." But here's what you actually said before: How is this not saying he didn't deserve his contract, John? Looks to me like you said exactly the opposite. And it didn't make sense. Now you're backing off, and that's fine, but it should be pretty clear why I felt I had to point out that Gilmore shows every sign of living up to every contract he's signed. And that if there's one thing the Pats are known for, it's pinching pennies and not overpaying for FAs. His production was matching his pay but the Bills were between a rock and a hard place in terms of the cap. Gilmore was on an island when he was here. Bad safeties and they schemed him man-to-man on their best. Gaines is in a much easier position and has better safeties backing him up. He's not as good. I like Gaines and am happy he's here, but Gilmore's better. Where are all the media folks and stats showing Gaines to be as good? And once again, I'm not arguing whether they spent money well or whether our secondary is better. I'd agree. The safeties are almost infinitely better than our recent guys there. I'm saying if Whaley hadn't screwed us with a bad cap situation we could have kept Gilmore and had him opposite Tre and been a good deal better. The Pats film review column has Belichick even walking up to him and giving him a big smile a few weeks ago. https://nesn.com/2017/12/patriots-bills-film-review-stephon-gilmore-is-really-good-edition/ In any case, when you look at people writing up the Bills draft needs, there's often CB on the list. Exactly. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-draft-buffalo-bills-team-needs-draft-picks-prospects-to-watch/ http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/11/21/2018-nfl-draft-buffalo-bills-top-5-draft-needs/ http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/11/what_are_the_buffalo_bills_biggest_needs_heading_into_2018.html http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Mock-Draft-Watch-10/a571a495-8d47-4fde-9703-03715b32c4ce https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/4/27/15447882/buffalo-bills-top-2017-nfl-draft-needs-cornerback-safety-receiver-tackle-linebacker

Wow, dude. You've now found TWO plays where he got beat during his CAREER! Boy, you're killing me here. Obviously no other good CBs have ever been beaten like this two plays during their career. How will I ever come back against this masterpiece of logic? Boy, thanks for pointing out how I wasn't providing facts and then coming up with two whole plays in the last two years where he was bad. You're really inundating me with facts over here. Anyway, back to the point. That's twice I challenged you to come up with other bad Gilmore plays for the Jags game. Your silence has become deafening. None, hunh? Makes your argument show as pretty stupid. it's obvious what happened. Gilmore had an excellent game. But prove me wrong ... third time for me to ask ... where's your list of all the bad plays he made during that game?

Nice one, John. I'm with you here. Maybe find one playing up to his contract also.

Yeah, our offense compares favorably to the Jags. They're 6th in yards per game. We're 29th. Obviously this makes us superior, just as their scoring the 5th most points per game makes us at 22nd superior. Don't know if we "must" improve with Cousins. I certainly wouldn't mind, but the new boys don't appear to be the open-the-purse-strings type. Plenty of other guys out there. The world doesn't end after next season.

The only thing that article puts in perspective is what the writer was looking at. 5) The "questionable" delay of game call was correct. Just watched it on Game Pass in slo-mo. It really was delay of game. 4) The play this thread is about. 3) Brandin Cooks Pass Interference call - that article calls it a tough call against Jax. Not even close, it was obvious as all getout. The announcers for good reason totally agree with the call. 2) Personal foul on the Gronk hit. The article says it looked OK. Puh-leeze. Clearly helmet to helmet. On the GIF that accompanies that one you keep hearing Romo say over and over, "Definite penalty. Definite penalty. Definite penalty." On to infinity. Ridiculous. That call was absolutely correct. 1) No penalties called on Pats O or D - well, this one is at least debatable.

No. There absolutely was - and is - reason to whistle a play dead if you think it's dead. Allowing the play to be reviewed is in effect making a call that it was not down, that it was a TD. Which would then not be reversed if there wasn't conclusive evidence. If they're not sure, they're supposed to let the play go on. If they think it's down, they're supposed to whistle it dead, and for good reason. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/22/quick-whistle-may-have-robbed-myles-jack-of-a-fumble-recovery-touchdown/ There's a reason that all the stories on this say "may have" robbed them of a TD. There's no conclusive evidence. The official is supposed to make the call he sees.

This exactly. Nicely put. More, I had to watch that play in slow motion like seven times in order to figure out there's no way to be sure that Jack wasn't touched after he got possession. Couldn't blame anybody for getting it wrong, and there's no way to know if this was in fact wrong. But in plenty of other cases, yeah, superstars and great teams tend to get calls. In every sport, and especially at home.

Yeah, it's a handful. But they're pretty much all here. And again, it ain't mindless hate. There's a point. There are still people on here who think he's likely to be here next year and starting. That idea - very reasonably - causes normal people's gorges to rise. And if you find that most people taking up for Taylor don't even feel like doing it anymore ... they ought to stay out of these threads if they're drawn into saying stuff they don't feel like saying anymore. You seem to feel you've got some kind of obligation to protect Tyrod from these "hate rants." That makes exactly as much sense as feeling the urge to attack the Taylor-obsessed love rants. The difference being that wanting Taylor out of here makes more sense for a Bills fan. I've always liked him as a guy, except his little racist thing a while back, but everyone goes off the track now and then. He's a hard worker, he gives his all. But watching him on the field is painful. It's like watching Jordan Mills or Ramon Humber, except at least your eyes follow the ball away from Mills and Humber. Yes yes yes yes yes to your first paragraph. A Fitz type. I'd have said Foles but his price has probably gone up now. I've been mentioning McCown for a while now, I think he'd be a great fit. Hopefully someone who can then be the QB whisperer to whoever eventually takes over as starter.

God, neither do I. Sorry about that. It was late late late at night when I saw that. Was surprised but posted. Should've realized I wasn't tracking well enough to post at that point. So I was just wrong about those numbers. But my overall point still stands. The defense was wretched for that three-game stretch, just hideous. I mean we had 39% of the points against us all year put up in those three games. Horrendous. But really quite good the rest of the year, I mean except for those awful three games we only had three other games out of 13 where we allowed more than 20 points, and two of those three games were the Pats. Now, you can't ignore those three games, they were part of the season, they happened. But the defense put things together again after that. Whereas the offense was sub-mediocre pretty much the whole year. And the pass game was just consistently wretched.

Probably the same thing as the people watching today's games and then finding a way to make it an excuse to come on here and exalt Taylor to the heavens while pretending they aren't. Thereby confirming they're sort of obsessed. And by ... you get the idea. We come at it from the opposite direction of course but there are plenty of people on here today saying he'd have been fine with a better supporting cast, and on and on. Do you have anything against those people? Dude, be honest with yourself. You're not reacting to the situation. You're reacting to them saying stuff you disagree with. Same as the people on the other side of the argument. Only the people on the other side of the argument simply have a better point.