San Jose Bills Fan

I'm a bit later to this board than many of you so besides Lori, the guys I miss the most are The Dean and The Senator.

Amen. Every day I come here and read the deluge of negativity directed towards EJ Manuel. I've asked questions to posters which never get answered. I wonder why? Here's another opportunity: According to this list, EJ Manuel just completed (statistically) the 10th best rookie season by any rookie QB since 1992. His 77.7 passer rating puts him between Jeff Garcia and Carson Palmer. http://www.sportingc...t-20-years.aspx Now I'm not a big stats guy but I consider myself a good observer of the NFL and numbers aside, I thought EJ had an excellent rookie season. But getting back to the numbers, how does one explain EJ being one of the Top 10 Rookie QBs of the last 22 years? Here's another of my unanswered points: Here's a list of the most recent first round QBs and where they were drafted: Matthew Stafford 1st overall 2009 Mark Sanchez 5th overall 2009 Josh Freeman 17th overall 2009 Sam Bradford 1st overall 2010 Tim Tebow 25th overall 2010 Cam Newton 1st overall 2011 Jake Locker 8th overall 2011 Blaine Gabbert 10th overall 2011 Christian Ponder 12th overall 2011 Andrew Luck 1st overall 2012 RG3 2nd overall 2012 Ryan Tannehill 8th overall 2012 Brandon Weeden 22nd overall 2012 Only two of those players have established themselves as bona fide quality NFL starters, Stafford and Newton. Both of those guys were taken first overall. Of the other players drafted in the Top 5, it's looking very likely that Luck and RG3 will have great careers and it's looking more and more certain that Sanchez and Bradford are gonna be busts. Then you have players taken outside the top 5 where EJ was selected: Josh Freeman, Tim Tebow, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Ryan Tannehill, and Brandon Weeden. I would take EJ over any of those guys. Only Tannehill and Locker have an argument and Locker is in his 3rd NFL season. Then you consider how well EJ has played especially considering he missed half the preseason and 5 weeks of the regular season. Then you consider that the Bills traded down and still got Manuel. Then you realize that people posting on this board and expressing disappointment in EJ's rookie season really have no idea what they're talking about because they have no idea what a rookie QB in the NFL is realistically expected to do. Again, most of the people saying negative things about EJ Manuel simply have no clue as to how to judge a rookie NFL quarterback. They're simply frustrated Bills fans who need to let the world know that they're unhappy. JMO.

I disagree with your assessment of our wideouts. Woods and Goodwin were just two more rookie wideouts lost in the woods. As for your last paragraph, I'm not sure why you felt compelled to add that. I advocated drafting another QB in the 2014 draft way before most of you. I can look up the posts for you or you can look them up yourself. Let me know. It's a simple search.

You understand that it's pretty much impossible for a young player to improve if he's not playing regularly? Yes, Hughes probably improved more than any Bill from start to finish. The biggest reason for the team's failure this year was the lack of an effective passing game. There are multiple reasons for this: 1) Our starting quarterback couldn't stay healthy. 2) His backup was mediocre. 3) Our wideouts are very below average. 4) The jury is still out on our offensive coaching.

Don't tell that to Bill. He hates consensus.

To your first question, I believe the old marvdage that perfect practice makes perfect. I also believe that EJ has the work ethic and talent to improve his mechanics. Contrary to the silly dogma going around on this board, there have been NFL QBs who've improved their mechanics and accuracy after they got to the NFL. Throwing coaches like the Tom House, George Whitfield, and the late Tom Martinez have dramatically improved the mechanics of NFL QBs. Why would a young, gifted, and hard working QB like EJ not be able to improve his mechanics? I certainly don't feel that fewer snaps will improve his mechanics. As far as your second question, I will hope that his injury-free 4 seasons at Florida State are a more reliable indicator than his rookie season in Buffalo. While I hope, I'll believe that EJ is continuing to do the exercises he mentioned today that will strengthen his PCLs, both of which he injured this year.

I'd love Fitz as a backup and hated him as a starter. But I didn't crusade on the guy. My discontent with him as a starter was not something I had to make known every time I posted.

As I've posted several times now (and no one has answered), when was the last time a successful NFL receiving corps consisted of 2 rookies and a 2nd year disappointment in your top 4 wideouts? Exactly 3 rookie wide receivers made a solid veteran type contribution this year. Keenan Allen, Terrence Williams (very modest stats), and Cordarelle Patterson (late season burst for a prodigious talent). Tavon Austin made more frequent splash plays in the second half of the season but his impact in no way was commensurate with his draft status. A few other rookies (Hopkins) gave glimpses of their talent. Rookie wideouts that make an impact are the exception, just like rookie QBs who make an impact are the exception. Why is it that on a board with so many supposedly knowledgeable fans, these facts are overlooked? The receiving corps on this team is woeful. Hopefully by this time next year, this year's rookies will have crossed the line into becoming competent NFL receivers. Let me just say that Lewis was a 4-year starter at Duke and threw nearly 300 more passes in college than did EJ. On top of that he is a 26 year old, 4-year veteran with an underdog mentality who plays with conviction. The kind of conviction a guy plays with when he knows he's clinging to the NFL by his fingertips. In spite of these advantages, Thad is not as good a QB as EJ IMO so we'll disagree on this one.

Losing HAS brought out the worst in people. There are lots of posters here who just come to the board to vent, as if that's a healthy activity. Unfortunately it's my experience that venting is not cathartic but instead becomes a self-perpetuating practice with no benefits. Most people who post here post on emotion, not reason. The losing has made those people emotionally ugly. On the other hand there are enormous numbers of objective, intelligent and informed posters who find a way to discuss the team without DWELLING on the negativity. All of those people accept that the Bills have sucked for a long time. The fact that we don't want to obsess on the negative doesn't mean that we are in denial. I challenge you to find one post of mine which would label me as an apologist. I criticize this team as much as anyone. But I don't go on and on ad nauseum about it like some people do. We have a rule in our house that you don't come home after work and complain about things. I don't hang around people who complain or B word about work or politics or anything. Discussions are cool but chronic negativity is for losers. That's why I can't tolerate one person posting 25-30 negative posts on one subject (ie- EJ Manuel). Negativity is one thing but lately a lot of people have been using it to fuel their crusades. It makes me think that these people are miserable in real life and use the Bills as an excuse to vent their unhappiness. Moreover, I can't understand how a truly happy person could spend so much time being negative about anything. Any theories? I agree that negativity is a symptom. It's a symptom of an unhappy person.

Actually that's a subject better not to broach. I'm not sure Scott has enough server space to accommodate that thread. Happy New Year Bill!

Here's a question I'll ask again: How many good receiving corps feature 2 rookies and 1 second-year player in their top 4?

Lots of posters who really added value around here no longer post. I think like me the constant drumbeat of negativity drives away traffic. To put our participation here in context, there are about 700 pages of members with 20 members to a page. So roughly 14,000 people have registered to this site over the years.

I'm surprised that Buddy got duped in that Mark Dominick phone call, considering how he had experience as a phone operator and "whatnot." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsEhXE5IUCQ

Wow you're way off on this. Foles was essentially a 4-year starter in college and threw over 500 more passes in college than did EJ. Then as a rookie Foles threw more balls in his rookie season than did EJ in his rookie season. You're exactly wrong: The one thing EJ needs to improve is more snaps. BTW, I posted several times last year that I thought Nick Foles was gonna become a good QB. My prediction was not exactly widely accepted. However anyone who actually objectively watches rookie QBs (not you) could see Foles had the head for the game and simply needed more experience. It was obvious, at least to me.

Yeah, wasn't that the name of the kid in "Where the Wild Things Are?" At least his parents knew he had a wimpy last name and tried to counterbalance that with the first name "Guy." Probably the other finalist for Whimper's first name was "Buck."

"Push Notification" at The Ralph: "Please be advised that there is a stream of raw sewage pooling in the main concourse between sections 120 and 142. Thank you." Seriously, the new Niners stadium is gonna be an experience like no other. Silicon Valley meets NFL stadium.

The usual wakeup time. Gotta drive up to Emeryville and then Dublin after that. Another long day in the saddle. Yeah, TJ has a case for being one of the worst Bills draft picks in a long time. When you consider who the Bills passed up at that pick. Then add to that the sad fact that the Bills burned another draft pick to trade up two picks to draft him. That was Buddy Nix's worst moment right there. At least when he passed on Kaepernick/Dalton he got a good player in Aaron Williams but with regards to the TJ Graham pick, there isn't even any semblance of a silver lining.

If he improves Chad has the chance to become a decent backup QB. To the bolded, the Bills have lots of talent on defense. On offense they have some nice building blocks in Cordy Glenn, Eric Wood, and EJ Manuel. Unfortunately the Bills wide receiving corps is woeful, they have average tight ends, a slightly better than average offensive line, and your props to Hackett notwithstanding, an unproven and inexperienced OC who may or may not be up to the job. For anyone who is accustomed to watching and evaluating rookie QBs (apparently very few people on this board) EJ Manuel is the least of the Bills problems.

Agreed. Of our top 4 wideouts, 2 were unproven rookies and 1 is a struggling 2nd year player.

On the other hand, Marrone's comments could be viewed as offering Hilliard up as a sacrificial offering in hopes of satisfying the bloodlust of the masses. Just playing devil's advocate.

:thumbsup:

One of many voids in our discussions here has been the subject of rookie wide receivers. I've brought it up a few times but people would rather place the blame on passing inefficiency on a rookie QB and/or a rookie OC. It was a commonly stated belief on this board PRIOR to this season that rookie wideouts usually have a very rough time of it. Why is this common knowledge being disregarded now? Name the rookie wideouts this season who made an appreciable impact: Off the top of my head, Keenan Allen, Cordarelle Patterson, Terrence Williams. JUST AS WITH ROOKIE QUARTERBACKS, rookie wideouts who have a veteran-like impact are very rare. Just as with rookie QBs, rookie wideouts who post good numbers are rare and are the exception, not the rule. One of many problems the Bills offense had this year is that they leaned heavily on two rookie wideouts. This is a recipe for failure. When you add it to a rookie QB and a rookie OC, that's not a recipe for success. I'm not sure what Marrone and Company expected Ike Hilliard to accomplish with what he was given but I do know that what he was given was a young, marginally talented, and unproven receiving corps.

The one glaring mistake I saw on the first long kick return was committed by Duke Williams (or whoever wears 27). I haven't yet rewatched the game but my impression was that Duke lost his lane assignment by erring inside by a few spots and then he got wiped out by someone in the wedge. You could hear the impact. I'm kinda surprised no one has mentioned that play yet. The Crossman hire was indefensible when it happened and is less defensible now. BTW, the Bills Assistant Special Teams Coach is John Anselmo who was in his first year as an NFL assistant and who was Marrone's Asst. Head Coach last year at Syracuse. He coached Syracuse's special teams in 2011 and 2012. Because of his close association with Marrone, I have a hard time seeing Marrone firing Anselmo or replacing him with someone with more expertise in an attempt to bolster Crossman's special teams. Marrone did say when asked specifically about Crossman that "everyone will be evaluated" so there's still hope.

Fun?

Happy New Year, Olivier. Glad to know you're still in touch.